| Author |
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 09:34 am: | 
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Ebay does a decent job with this sort of stuff by creating a forum for feedback but strictly limiting content. If you do a transaction, you can leave 80 characters of feedback, the seller gets one line to rebut, and you get one of three ratings (good, indifferent, bad). These are then averaged to give a quality ranking along with a number of transactions.
I would hate to go much further then that here. For every person that posts a thoughtful and defensible warning, there would be three others would just run up and pee all over everything.
In a hypothetical case where a company or individuals were previously in partnership, and now feel very strongly that they can no longer be in partnership, and especially in cases where proovable fraud was committed, its an ugly can of worms.
A company has an obligation to protect it's reputation, and an obligation to protect it's customers. If it were me, I would post a *short* factual summary warning potential customers. One paragraph describing factual reasons for the dissolution, one paragraph describing the current state of the relationship, and a third paragraph stating what the company is for and how it will move forward (all positive). Post it, get it out, refer people to it if you feel the need, and let it go at that. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 09:38 am: |
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Geesh, and as I think about it, I may have bought something off that guy for my Cyclone (now sold) a long time ago.
I bought a set of banke footpegs, rear brake, and shifter. He represented them as a good condition race pull, and they were in actuality pretty chewed up, but being Banke were easy to file down and polish back up, so I was happy with them (though emailed back suggesting he be more careful with his description in the future).
So now I wonder who they were stolen from 
Anyone come up missing a banke shifter, footpegs, and brake lever? These were not the full rearsets, just the "little bit backsets", they were about an inch up and an inch back over the normal cyclone position.
I don't have them any more, sold them with the bike, but will do what I can to help if these were stolen property. I want no part of being associated with thief, or profiting from theft. |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
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Aaron, I'm inclined to vote "yes", I'd love to get a heads-up on untrustworthy individuals or firms, but if I were you I'd study up on libel laws, consult an attorney and be careful if you decide to out somebody.
Watch out for yourself first.
On the other hand, it would be a service to the other members here. And, incidentally, it would not be the first good and valuable service you've rendered to this group! Thanks for everything, past and future!
rt |
Buelliedan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
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I just love to go into store that publically post bad checks they have received. Its really funny when you see somebody you know especially if they come across as some "holier than thou" type! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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I just like to go riding on my motorcycle. I'll wave at ya as I ride by and you're studying up on the bad check writers. Reveling in the misdeeds of others? No thanks. Get thee behind me.
I've bounced a few checks in my day. Never purposefully. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:52 am: |
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I"ve known a few people who had a paycheck deposit snafu and accidently bounced a check. The bad check posting place refused to allow them to make good on the mistake. Two sides to every story.
Case in point: what is the real story behind the discountmotorcycletire situation?
YMMV.
'scuse me now while I go look up some motorcycle museums and see what they have on display. If this were a religious thread I'd post a quote.
Signing off for a bit.
g'day. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:30 pm: |
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> paycheck deposit snafu and accidently bounced a check
You posted that right after I decided not to post my story (the State of IL crossed their deposits and all our paychecks - I worked on campus in a computer lab - bounced).
It worked out - mostly thanks to news coverage. |
Lornce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 02:55 pm: |
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How accurate is this information, gentlemen?
I'm awaiting delivery of a set of 1250 Millenium cylinders and pistons, purportedly "take offs" from Joe Perry's race bike.
best,
Lornce |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 02:57 pm: |
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And the other thing to remember is in our system of justice it's INNOCENT until proven guilty by a judge and jury.An accusation is just that,so I think I'll withhold judgement. |
Lornce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:04 pm: |
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Aaron,
First off: Thank you for your contributions to this web board. Yours are some of the most qualitative additions to this entire site, and one of the prime reasons for my using it. The knowledge vault is fairly a tribute to your tireless efforts and selfless sharing of time and knowledge. Your contributions are, for the most part, what make this board useful. Thank you.
Secondly: I encourage you to share any information you're able about dead-beat board users. Could be you'd save someone else some grief down the road.
Thirdly: Having witnessed the shabby treatment you've been shamefully subjected to of late, I wouldn't blame you for never contributing to this site again. I think you're owed a public apology on several points. I've never seen such ingratitude on the internet.
Your knowledge and efforts, sir, have been this site's main redeeming virtue.
best regards,
Lawrence Hogarth
Hamilton, Ontario
Canada |
Timbo
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 09:07 pm: |
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I hope you don't feel bad for not saying something sooner Aaron, but it's obvious that other BadWeb members have been taken by 1320. It seems some very recently.
If his dishonesty had been brought to light earlier, it does seem it could have saved some others some grief.
Maybe that's what you are getting at.
I don't know the potential legal ramifications of posting bad business transactions publicly, but if it's kept to the facts and the offending party is given the opportunity to correct the matter, then I don't see a problem with it.
I do believe that's how Al handled a potentially bad situation earlier, and if I recall correctly, it came to a good resolution.
Tough subject, but in the end we should look out for each other to protect against predators and deadbeats alike.
(Message edited by timbo on March 02, 2005) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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quote:Thirdly: Having witnessed the shabby treatment you've been shamefully subjected to of late, I wouldn't blame you for never contributing to this site again. I think you're owed a public apology on several points. I've never seen such ingratitude on the internet.
That is a complete unmitigated load of crap! I very much resent you or anyone continuing to try to stir up consternation between Aaron and me or anyone. You want to drive this board into the ground, keep up that kind of public pot stirring.
Fair and balanced is what we strive for. We have a clear policy frowning upon any manner of derisive inflamatory attacks, and I for one will continue to try to uphold that policy no matter who comes into conflict with it or whose customer they might be.
Am I an insensitive jackass sometimes? To quote my friend Court, "D'UH!" GUILTY!
Maybe you missed this post?
As to ingratitude, that runs BOTH ways. Suffice it to say that without BadWeB it seems unlikely that NRHS would be in Colorado under the sole direction of the Wilsons, there would likely have been no grass roots Team Elves racing efforts or their multitude of land speed records, there'd be no SacBORG, there would likely be a heck of a lot more free time for me and a heck of a lot less grief and consternation.
<sigh> |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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Good point Timbo. Maybe a new topic is in order to confront dead beat BadWeBrs who refuse to make good on payment for parts or services. We could make it a queued message board where any submittals would need to be approved prior to their public display. More work for the custodians. Hmmm... |
Thansesxb9rs
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:32 pm: |
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Aaron,
Next time that happens, just post a copy of the bad check on the web. It would be like some small business post bad checks of their customers at the cash register. Then you can direct everyone to the website to take a look. I wouldn't buy a part from someone that wrote bad checks, they probably wouldn't send the part and they would still cash the check.
I wouldn't post that you know for a fact that they are stealing. Too much liability, and not worth your trouble. If you feel that you truely need to warn people then consult your lawyer about what you can and cannot say even if you have the facts.
By the way I can't wait for you to finish Sam's bike, that thing is bad A$$. |
Thansesxb9rs
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:41 pm: |
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"As to ingratitude, that runs BOTH ways. Suffice it to say that without BadWeB it seems unlikely that NRHS would be in Colorado under the sole direction of the Wilsons, there would likely have been no grass roots Team Elves racing efforts or their multitude of land speed records, there'd be no SacBORG, there would likely be a heck of a lot more free time for me and a heck of a lot less grief and consternation."
Blake,
If you hadn't started the Badweb someone else would have and the only person that would have been left out would be you. For some reason I don't think you are the only person who would have thought of this. Not to sound mean or anything but you just made the leap first and we are all grateful for that.
(Message edited by thansesxb9rs on March 02, 2005) |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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Sigh...
Timbo, I wish it had worked out good for me. In the case of the transaction in question, I merely wanted the customer to communicate with me to help find the money that he said he wired, but I never got. After many unanswered emails, but several posts by him here, I asked him publicly to please contact me to help resolve the matter. He never would, and then when asked to again by Blake, he went on a rant and left the board forever. I am thankful to Blake for trying to enforce honorable behavior from the person on my behalf.
Believe me, the last thing in the world I want to do is air private matters in the court of the www public opinion. In that case, I'll plead guilty to using a public forum for private communications, but sadly, nothing else had worked and I was out of options. Had the customer been in the US, I probably would have sought legal recourse. It was too much trouble for pursuing internationally. In the end, I learned a valuable business lesson, and it does please me that a person that I believe to be of questionable integrity no longer posts here. I have tried to put it all behind me, no time to dwell there.
We should tread very carefully here. There are two sides to every story. Sometimes, one of those sides is that an involved party is a thief and a liar. However, other times, one or both sides think the other is a thief and a liar, when in fact, neither is true. I'm not making any implications about any recent events one way or the other, just stating the obvious.
Stick to facts as objectively stated as possible, involving only transactions by people that are routinely here so that they can defend themselves if necessary, and their might be some value in it. Otherwise, I don't think it is a good idea to air private matters here. It could easily make for more difficult legal issues, not only due to libel, but also in the legal collection proceedings that may occur afterwards.
Al |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:25 am: |
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Tim (Thanses),
There is no "I" in BadWeB. I wonder how many customers came to NRHS through BadWeB and our long loyal support of them.
I'll start...
Me.
That's one.
Who's next? |
Timbo
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:33 am: |
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My mistake Al,
I thought that issue got resolved. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 01:22 am: |
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Ya know, Timbo, the only other American Sport Bike transaction I'm aware of that got got publicly aired was on ATC. We were accused of behaving dishonorably, I defended it. It got worse before it got better, but eventually resolved to the satisfaction of both parties as both of us became more aware of the other persons position. If you hang on ATC, you may be thinking of that one.
Of that, I can say that the public airing of grievances did not help the situation at all. In fact, the issue ultimately resolved as a result of much private communications that occurred. I believe that it would have resolved faster in those private communications had the issue never gone public. In the end, both of us walked away satisfied with the result.
I would also like to emphasize that in ALL of the many thousands of transactions that we have had since taking over at American Sport Bike, those are the only two that went bad for any length of time. Most are smooth, some have issues but they get resolved through good communications. The overwhelming majority of the people we deal with are honest, good folk and a pleasure to work with, and I'm very thankful for that. When deals go bad, the world doesn't feel right. I'm glad it's so rare.
Al |
Lornce
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 05:44 am: |
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"As to ingratitude, that runs BOTH ways. Suffice it to say that without BadWeB it seems unlikely that NRHS would be in Colorado under the sole direction of the Wilsons, there would likely have been no grass roots Team Elves racing efforts or their multitude of land speed records, there'd be no SacBORG, there would likely be a heck of a lot more free time for me and a heck of a lot less grief and consternation."
Oh, sure. And Burt Rutan would have sold icecream on the street corner if it wasn't for epoxy resin....
I'm happy to help you with this point if it's giving you trouble.
Lawrence Hogarth
Hamilton Ontario
Canada |
Pammy
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 07:43 am: |
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To all on this thread. I will post this and then we will let it go. As far as I am concerned. Blake is about as honorable a man as I have ever met. I have met many on this board and I can tell you that this is a rare quality in folks these days. Blake hasn't treated anyone with disrespect AT ALL. Get that perfectly clear. If I were to air some dirty laundry on this board, some proverbial Ca Ca(sp?) would hit the proverbial fan. But I wouldn't, because it is beneath me and would only serve to degrade, what has been and will continue to be, a wonderful resource for this community. I, for one, would be deeply disturbed should it disappear.
Aaron, this is a personal message for you. Though you probably won't listen. Take it from someone who knows. LET THIS CRUSADE GO! It will only serve to be your undoing. I have been in this business for MUCH longer than you. We have risked infinitely more than you have to be in and stay in this business and I will tell you,from experience, that you are only degrading the absolute respect that everyone has for you here.
For the ones who are quick to jump on Blakes back for what you percieve as his "bad bahaviour". YOu truly need to reconsider. YOU obviously don't know Blake or it would be impossible for you to continue on this line of disrespect. If anyone would like to contact me direct, you are welcome to, either by e-mail: Pammyb@aol.com or cell 727-644-5445 or at my shop(but not until Monday). I am a very open person and would like to see all this angst and back stabbing resolved and gone.
Let's please get this taken care of. As a group, we have done wonderful, if not miraculous things. YOu know, "A house divided and all that crap"... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 08:45 am: |
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The Queen has spoken.
I don't think any more needs to be said. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 09:03 am: |
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I tender a motion that this thread be locked.
And if more needs to be stated then start a sub-section entitled "Dispute Resolution" and limit participation to direct parties involved only.
Do I hear a second on locking this one down? |
Loki
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:05 am: |
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LOCK IT!
Well said Pammy. |
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