| Author | Message | ||
     Surveyor  |
Lets all see if we can go for 24 hours without a new TFI thread.....how about some opinions on something utterly useless like setting up a Buell....can anyone remember what preload, rebound damping and compression damping are. All this BS about 0.5% bhp increase is a waste of brainpower especially when many bikes are so badly set up that the rider can't even exploit 75% of the available potential. OK so Buells are down on pure power but when properly set up they are the most rideable bike I have ever ridden or raced so lets discuss how best to exploit the Buells strong points instead of obsessing about gaining 5bhp between 6500 and the redline....just my thoughts and no offence intended. | ||
| Daveinm  |
According to my math, the 5 bhp increase I got after just dyno tuning my TFI comes to a 6.3% increase...not .5%. Why don't you just ignore them if you're sick of hearing about them? | ||
| Cataract2 |
Dang, that reminds me. I should check my settings... on the shocks.  | ||
| Biofilter  |
daveinm thats a great pic | ||
| Newxb9er  |
Surveyor. How long did it take you to get the bike dialed in? That is where I am lost. I have chosen the aggressive settings that have been posted here for my weight. Any recommendations on books, so I know what everything does? Thanks. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Daveinm, Have you posted any dynos? Heh heh! xbolt12 | ||
| M1combat  |
No offense taken... Personally, I made sure I got rid of my FRONT chicken strips on Metz M1's before I started spending money on power. I still haven't been able to drag a peg quite yet, but I'll bet I'm less than a 1/16" away. I've dragged my toes with them tucked into the cam/primary covers, but that was with some fairly large hiking boots on. | ||
| Buellman39 |
Surveyor, If you don't like the thread DON'T READ IT It's that simple. Not all of use have the access to a dyno. So any info that comes from everyone else is helpful. When I bought my buell in sept of 2004 (only 750 miles on it so far) I never thought that I would find out so much as I did in the last couple of months from this board. So keep it coming people. I know stuff gets talked about more than it should but hey that's just the way it is. I just skip over it if I've read it already} | ||
| Glitch  |
Unless ya'll a just yanking Paul's chain, you're off topic discussing anything other than the question/comment. What I'd like to know about the suspension settings is this. I've got my settings (XB9S) by the book. Have had no issues at all. Handles great, no chicken strips, and I ride in the mountains every chance I get. I'm getting the Cross Roads bars soon (just waiting for delivery). Will a more forward bias position make it a need to adjust everything again, or only tweek what I've got? Do you think the set up for the XB9R will be closer to what I'll be needing? Will I have to start from scratch? | ||
| Jaredkuper  |
Good question, Glitch. I'm in the same boat, going to put lower bars on the 9S. So should I start using suspension settings for the R models? | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
Glitch and Jared, the Aggressive settings listed around here are what I set mine to when I put on the Crossroads. | ||
| Glitch |
Thanks Wycked. That's exactly what I was looking for. Jared, I already have lower bars. About 2 1/2 inches lower, and didn't need to change the settings. The Cross Roads are way lower and more forward. So if you're only changing bars, you should be OK. Just be sure to be careful one your first ride or two. | ||
| Surveyor |
Sorry I'm late guys (different time zone) and great to see some interest in a non TFI matter. daveinm, congrats on the 6.3% bhp increase.....bet you don't improve your lap times by 1% though.....1 second on a 1:40 lap?...let us know. newxb9er, Not long. I used the settings on this site http://groups.msn.com/xb9r/20022003fireboltsuspensionsetup.msnw as a base and then dialed out one or two problems. I ended running these settings frontPL=4 FrontRB=1 Front comp.=1.25 rear PL=5 rear RB=1/2 rear comp=1 cold tyres at 34 front 36 rear. I increased the front RB to dial at some front end chatter and it worked. I dropped the front end down the forks in an attempt to speed up the steering, I can't remember by how much but it was enough to scare me sh***ess as the front end became a little lively. Other people have done this with a damper fitted and it works. I should mention that these are track settings that work on the road. A better rider would probably use more aggressive track settings (try slaughter) BTW I will admit to being over 200lbs....hope thats some help. M1combat, I'm glad I'm not your insurance broker if your riding like that on the road!!!....BIG respect!!! buellman...point taken glitch,jaredkuper, I'm afraid I can't be much help to you guys as I'm not familiar with the bars however I'd guess you will back off your rear pre load and increase your front pl and comp. I'd say it's a case of suck it and see. I found it much easier to set a bike up at the track, less distractions than on the road and easier to figure out what the chasis is (or is not) doing. I know some people chang the forks and rear shock but I have found that the originals are pretty good even with the single brake caliper the forks are stable under braking and don't seem to try to twist. Anybody got experience with other shocks/forks or twin disc setups? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Surveyor, come visit us for Springfast and we will take you on those roads that M1 is refering to. Its REAL easy to get leaned like that in the Spars without a ton of speed. Just good clean well designed corners that just scream to be raped...well you can't rape the willing and these corners are DEFINATELY willing. Don never did tell me what lean angle I was hitting when he was following me up through them...I know I have yet to touch down my pegs as well. | ||
| M1combat |
Well, I don't do that very often  . I've got a stretch of very technical twisties on a newly paved road that's about 1/4 mile from my house and about 15 miles long . The drawback is that it's a cliff on one side and a fairly continuos rock wall on the other. I just figure if I don't worry about those little details I'll be fine . I ALWAYS make one med speed run to check out the pavement before I have fun. I NEVER cross the double yellow even with my head unless I can see VERY clearly that there's no-one coming and I ONLY do that to pass the ocasional car (they generally just pull off to the side and let me by though, I think they like the sound). I would guess that of the 11K miles on the bike, it has spent about 7K on that stretch of road . Also... When I have dragged the edges of my feet while they are tucked in, it has been while not hanging off very far, so I know there's more in the bike, I'll just not use it until I can take it to a track. | ||
| Ingemar |
I had my suspension dialed in by an race track instructor. This guy has a stock xb9, 12,500 miles of which more than 10,000 are trackmiles. Anyway, he came up with Front Preload..........: 2 lines showing Front Rebound..........: 1 1/2 turns out from all in front Compression......: 3/4 turns out from all in Rear Preload...........: 6 (1 down from stiffest) Rear Rebound...........: 1 turn out from all in Rear Compression.......: 1 1/4 turn out from all in | ||
| M1combat |
Those are the settings I used. I moved to three lines of preload on the front, and I may also move to five on the back. I'm not getting quite enough sag at the rear that I want, but I did notice the difference at turn in from lowering the front to three lines. I weigh in at ~220. I may also weaken the rebound damping on the fron just a tad as well. It seems to loose a bit of contact over sharp bumps at the front end. | ||
| Surveyor |
Ingemar, Thats a seriously stiff front end your running there, what weight are you and how does it ride? Are those track or road settings? | ||
| Ingemar |
I'm somewhere between 188 and 200 pounds. I'm pretty sure I'm not past 200 but I don't have a scale. Those are road settings. Before I had it set up by this guy I had set preload per the user manual. Experimenting and trying to find better settings, I found myself increasing compression to compensate for the softer preload settings I had. I didn't know any better, I just went by the book on preload, then changed compression and rebound settings by trail and error. As I increased com/pl , my confidence in the bike decreased, especially on rainy days. Ever since he set up the bike I have gained so much more confidence in the bike especially on rainy days. So much more confidence inspiring. I'm not a racer, I may get on the track in the near future but I know that my next big money isn't in engine performance parts. It's gonna be a pensky rear shock. | ||
| M1combat |
Same here WRT the penske/ohlins/Hyperpro. Probably Ohlins front and rear just because many F1 teams use them and I like to support anyone that supports F1. | ||
| Surveyor |
"As I increased com/pl , my confidence in the bike decreased, especially on rainy days" Ingemar, you've raised an interesting point there, I have always suspected that a softer setup would suit wet weather riding better but I have never bothered changing a setup due to weather changes which is crazy really if you consider that many/most racers remap their ecm with a wet weather map to make the bike more rideable in the wet.......course I realise a lot of you guys probably don't know what rain is ....any thoughts? | ||
| Ingemar |
Yeah, I tend to believe a softer suspension setup would be preferrable in wet weather. I'm not sure why I think that though and the idea might very well between my ears. I have never seen pro racers readjust suspension when it started to rain while changing to rain tires. Question: One of the effects of too much preload on the front might be turning wide and relatively difficult turn in. Is this because it doesn't compress as much as the rear thereby negatively affecting geometry? | ||
| Opto |
I like it set front and rear to use full travel, for the rough roads around here that I seem to choose to ride (countryside and less traffic). Set it up as soft as possible without bottoming out. The bike pitches a lot (2-up) under heavy braking/accel but handling and steering is always spot on, no scaries. A setup for the tarmac might be a completely different story. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Hey Surveyor, talk to me after you ride that thing for 2 hours in a snow/rain storm down a mountain with an 8% downgrade and a 6% upgrade. I went with the stable feeling. I prefer to leave my suspension right were it is because I already know how the bike will react to rider input. Instead I adjust my riding style, go lighter on the throttle, brakes and even my steering inputs. Instead of riding at 100% normal aggression, I ride it at 75% aggression. I would say I have at least 2000 miles in the rain and 125 of that was very snowy/slushy. I use the Weight settings off the Aggressive chart online for the 195-210 range which is one up from my own weight, I do that because I often have extra gear with my like my cameras and such and would just already be compensated for it. | ||
| Surveyor |
Ingemar, I've always worked on the basis that you raise the (rear) ride height (can't be done on a Buell) or drop the front (reduce the trail?) if you want to increase turning speed I've never heard of front preload being used. The problem with dropping then frontend is loss of front end stability usually dealt with by installing a steering damper. I'm not sure how relevant this is to road riding (unless you ride like M1 or wyckedflesh). Like you say I've never seen other guys at the track change their setup for wet weather but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen....I'd bet it does. I used to think that running lower tyre pressures in the wet was a good idea whereas the opposite is the case so I could be wrong about softer setup too. I think wyckedflesh's approach is what most people do. Opto what are your setup details for the road...sounds like you ride roads like we have here.....rough. | ||
| Charlieboy6649  |
I went with the stock settings, I'm 230 lbs, and love them for around town; but when I'm really taxing the suspension, as when battletrax came to town, I noticed that I was getting a BUNCH of front end dive during breaking. I also noticed, by seeing my shadow of all things  , that under hard acceleration the bike rocks back, A LOT. I'm not going to change my settings for my everyday ride, cuz for that environment it's great; but when I go to a trackday or another BTX, what would fix this? Stiffer pre-load, or compression dampening, or combination of the two? Thanks. | ||
| M1combat |
One thing to remember is that preload does NOT affect the spring rate. It affects ride height and static weight balance. It's a horrible name for that setting. | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Right M1, so in addition to preload and compression dampening, there's higher viscosity fork oil to consider. For those with the experience, what would I do to fix my suspension symptoms? | ||
| Blake |
"Preload" is the 100% exactly perfect name. For when you adjust shock/fork preload, you are altering how much the spring is loaded (compressed) prior to it ever being loaded further through action of the suspension/shock mechanism; the spring is thus already loaded, or pre-loaded with an initial compression "preload." Until the compression load acting on the shock through the suspension exceeds the spring preload, the shock will not compress. | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
So Blake, please, with your track experience help me. If my front end is diving, preload is what I need? Being a novice I'm reluctant to go fiddling with my factory settings... |
