| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep  |
Ouch. Been there, done that, but while wearing good protective gear. And it has been my experience that the degree of stupidity that you have really bought into *only* becomes clear the moment the tires leave the tarmac, or the but leaves the seat. At that moment, my current level of stupidity becomes *crystal* clear. | ||
| Midknyte |
I'm for helmets, but do not appreciate any law that would have me forced to wear it. That's a statement that goes nowhere though, as I'd be wearing it most of the time regardless of a law telling me to. As far as laws go. I'd much more appreciate EXISTING laws regarding proper lane usage, turns, and complete stops be enforced for the good of all. I do think and feel though that a helmet ought to be considered mandatory on sale of a new motorcycle. It can be an addition of as little as $50 on a multi thousand dollar vehicle - read that as easily absorbed and spread into the cost and / or loan. There's no more excuse not to do something like this than to build and sell a car without seat belts. | ||
| Blake |
I'll confess. I wasn't even a good rider. I was a dangerous rider. I see more dangerous riders than good riders, by far. | ||
| Ingemar  |
Seatbelt laws protect me from you. If you are in an accident you are more likely to remain in control of your car if you are wearing a seatbelt. Then after an accident you might not come careening into my lane and kill ME. That's the biggest nonsense I have ever heard. Over 90% of the cagers are unable to control a car once it starts sliding or skidding. The NUMBER 1 reason is because their reflexes are per definition WRONG unless they are trained. Reflexes cause you to release the gas pedal, brake or steer too much causing a pendulum effect. At that point a seat belt isn't gonna do any good for controlling a car because the person controlling it has no knowing of how to get a car back under control. Now if you were talking about a pro driver who knows what to do in situations when his car is back to front, yes I would agree. In any other case (the average cager on his way to the office): NO WAY! I've seen it happen, it has happened to me, and it has been proven in tests. In a crash most people are best off grabbing the steer with both hands, don't move it and slam the brakes. And that's what a seatbelt is designed for. Not to stay in control. Your comment reminds me of a man who was lucky to be alive by not wearing a seatbelt. The policemen who rescued him made him believe it was a fact. He never used the seatbelt from that point on. As if every accident he will get involved in will turn out that same way. Don't mistake the very very few exceptions for common law. A seatbelt doesn't keep you in control if you don't know how stay in control or gain back control in the first place. And just because one man survived a carcrash by not wearing his seatbelt doesn't mean seatbelts kill people in a crash. If it makes you any happier, I always wear my seatbelt  | ||
| Midknyte |
I second this. If they were capable and skilled enough to control their vehicle after a crash begins - they wouldn't have F'n caused it in the first place! | ||
| Clevelandxb9r |
"Over 90% of the cagers are unable to control a car once it starts sliding or skidding." I agree with this, but that is not what I am talking about. The car does not have to be skidding or out of control. For instance I got hit head on in my truck by an idiot entering the road without looking. By the time I figured out what had happened, I looked around and realized that I was traveling straight at 25-30 mph toward oncoming lanes of traffic (not sliding or skidding). I was able to take action and not hit oncoming cars head on, hopefully I saved somebody's life. Edit: "If they were capable and skilled enough to control their vehicle after a crash begins - they wouldn't have F'n caused it in the first place!" I live in the snow belt of NE Ohio, I can control my vehicle in a skid better that 99% of people around here, but all that was required after my crash (that I did not cause or even see coming) was to STEP ON THE BRAKE. Not much skill needed there, however, if I would have been halfway through the windshield I would not have been able to do it. (Message edited by Clevelandxb9r on December 20, 2004) (Message edited by Clevelandxb9r on December 20, 2004) | ||
| Tramp  |
ingemar posted: "Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 04:25 am: Helmet laws are silly. If they think they are so smart with their helmet laws, they should make it mandatory for every biker to wear full leather gear, boots and gloves, armored and all. What's the use of a helmet law when you can ride your bike almost naked, but just wearing a helmet?" two things ingy- first, this IS the land of the ambulance-chasing lawyer, here. the alleged "freedom" issue these abate idiots crow about usually takes second to suing someone after major head injuries. you gotta understand the american mentality at work, here. secondly, unlike leather golves, boots, etc., a helmet will save your life, not just the smooth texture of your skin. given my druthers, i'd ride naked with my omnipresent fullface shoei over riding clothed without a helmet, anytime. rather be alive and scarred as opposed to dead with nice, unblemished hands, arms, etc. | ||
| Midknyte |
Cleveland, I don't doubt you and I might even temper my response. But I think it comes down to the fact that, we, as we partake in a form of driving where we must observe and learn a modicum of skill, could probably all make the same statement as yours (as in "I can control my vehicle in a skid better that 99% of people around here, but all that was required after my crash (that I did not cause or even see coming) was to STEP ON THE BRAKE.") The sheer presence of mind that we have as bikers goes long into that... | ||
| Clevelandxb9r |
BTW, I feel totally different about helmet laws, once a motorcyclist is using their crash helmet for it's intended purpose, there is not much they can do to protect me. | ||
| Dsergison  |
I drive very well in the worst of conditions. Oddly - I am probably more likely than most to wreck under those conditions, because when those conditions arise I go out in them and play. Irony? | ||
| Jerseyguy  |
I frankly couldn't care less about the law - I always wear my full helmet. After upwards of probably a 1000 get offs in every possible condition in Enduros, I'll never ride without one. Dyna - LOL, I even wear a helmet snowboarding. It took me two concussions, but I learned my lesson. If you plan to "Ride to the edge" (sorry Dave) you will probably go over that edge one day. | ||
| Rek  |
A couple points; 1) it's nobody's business but my own whether or not I choose the wear a seat belt or helmet (as previously stated 'natural selection has to start somewhere'). I am truly sick and freak'n tired of every two-bit legislature thinking they know what's best for me or anyone else. And 2) I got so wound up w/ my previous rant I've forgotten what it was. An astute observation no doubt, but now forever lost in the mist of time.  | ||
| Trolldaddi |
With my profession, I get to see the best of both worlds. I live in a state with a helmet law, but my county judges choose not to enforce the law. I have seen accidents with and with-out helmets, and with and with-out seat belts for that matter. Trust me when I say, you are better off wearing a helmet and also buckling up. | ||
| Blublak  |
Hmmm... What do I say? I've had some training in handling vehicles and my wife complains I drive like a little old lady. Of course, I have scared her several times when I needed to make a maneuver that she didn't think was .. normal. One of the biggest problems with speed, or with breaking the established regulations concerning roads is that while YOU may know what you are doing.. No one else does. In general, if everyone is driving with the same plan, then others know what to expect of you. Since most people drive a car in a fog, basically in their own private world, they only have a passing realization of what's happening around them.. So sudden changes really upset them. Hence more accidents.. a lot of riders, since you're more exposed to the world have a tendency to be a little more in tune with what's going on around them (not all, but most.). On the helmet law thing. In VA, you MUST have a lid and insurance (of some sort even SR-22) to ride. I've always felt that there should be a 'discount' of some sort if you always wear a lid. Like a box you check. If you check the box, and go down, no coverage for you! (violation of your 'contract' with the company).. So to that effect, I'm 'Pro-Choice' as opposed to 'Anti-Choice'.. Then again, I think I've only ridden without a lid once or twice in my life. And never for very long, since it's just an uncomfortable feeling for me.. A thought about ABATE.. well... they did start out as an off shoot of one or three 1% rider groups, so their initial forays into the laws governing motorcycles were a little.. uh.. odd.. But they have done a few good things. In VA they are one of the primary reasons motorcycles can use the HOV lanes without having to have at least 3 people on the bike at the same time. (when we first got HOV here, it was 3 passengers not two per car) ABATE helped lead the charge to change that law so bikes could ride the roads with a solo rider, even when the restrictions were in effect. Just my $.02 on the subject. Sort of.. | ||
| Djkaplan  |
I went riding without a helmet the last time I was in Panama City, Florida. I hate to say it, but it felt great. I hope it never becomes a habit and I would never recommend it, but at least I can say I did it. As far as safety is concerned, I have quite a collection of cracked (fullface) helmets dating back to the late 70's. No one needs to convince me that they are a good thing. | ||
| Tramp |
yep- abate's origins are murky at best, and i say that as a 1%er. nice the org.'s there, but ..... in california they have a different org., known as mma. a little more on the ball, i think, but then, i do NOT attend the events of either. i'm happy to wear me fullface whenever i'm on 2 wheels. life's too grand to blow on one bad wreck. | ||
| Jmartz  |
Ingemar: Congratulations on your individual thinking. It is not common to hear a European express such non-collective opinions. I find that in helmet law states (like my home state) mandatory helmet usage is a big issue. In states w/o such rule (like my former home state, WI) it is a non-issue. Governments are indeed able to convince its citizens to believe in their hearts. On a trip to Daytona on the 1st helmetless event (thank you Jeb) I noticed that those choosing to wear a helmet were more often than not from states with helmet laws. A quick glance at the license plate and those from TN, NC and GA wre frequently seen with lids on. Not so for those from SC or FL. | ||
| Tramp |
steady with the congrats, there, Jmartz. europeans don't live in a world run by insurance companies and lawyers, and hence they ddhave few worries re: helmets, etc. that's why euro skiing kicks aas. you ski at your own risk, and no ambulance chasing lawyer is going to win a wrongful death lawsuit against a european resort when junior bites it in a 200m. crevasse. this keeps the price of lift-tickets way down, and the adventure level way up. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm for helmets, but do not appreciate any law that would have me forced to wear it. I'm willing to be we are all in about that same boat. What I hope people do is not NOT wear a helmet in protest. That make any sense? I mean, not wearing one just to prove you can. You know what I mean.....  Court | ||
| Road_thing  |
I went for a little ride yesterday morning. It was about 45 degrees when I left the ranchito, other than that, it was a gorgeous day and there were lots of bikes out. I got a big chuckle out of the riders who were wearing leather from neck to toe, bandanas over their noses, but no helmets. I guess some folks will go to great lengths to make their point... rt | ||
| Newblaster  |
As far as people wearing a helmet and no other gear, I see that every day in summer. Sandals, shorts, tank top, cheap watch, and a shoei racer-replica full-face. I always wonder if they only had $700 or so to spend on gear, and ran out of money after getting the blingin' lid... Oh, and as far as the helmet law, I'm in CA, I don't believe that the government should try to save me from myself, but still wouldn't ride without a full-face helmet. Maybe that's why I don't like helmet/seat belt laws, because my sense of self-preservation works just fine without any legislative "help"? And to Jmartz... I don't think it's so much that I'm brainwashed (re: governments can convince people to believe in their hearts etc.), I like to think that it's my trashed lids (especially the one with major road rash on the entire right front... Phantom of the Opera-esque...) that convince me. (Message edited by newblaster on December 20, 2004) | ||
| Outrider  |
Had Cruisers until CA implemented the helmet law. Rockets and Desert Sleds after it went into effect. Figured if I had to wear a helmet, I may as well own some bikes where I might need them. Now, I live in Wisconsin where there is no helmet law. So when riding my Buell, I wear the helmet and some form of protective clothing. However, when I ride my Harley, I leave the helmet at home. Two different bikes with two different purposes and riding styles. With 46 years of riding, I am not concerned with confusing the issue and really enjoy my freedom of choice. Then, should Wisconsin implement a helmet law, the both bikes go and I am going for comfort and reliability and getting either a Yamaha FJR1300 or a Honda ST1300 for long distance sport touring. Whoops...That is with the exception of either Harley or Buell coming out with the Super Street Tracker in my avatar. That is a must have bike for me!!!  | ||
| Jmartz |
ditto OR same here, from cruisers and posing to sportbikes and a life of crime | ||
| Rek |
Paul Harvey had a short segment the other day about a Danish (I think?) traffic engineer who designed these awesome, nearly zero accident-free intersections, w/out the benefit of any signage. Which points to the fact that left to our own devices (yes, I always wear my helmet and leathers) those of us w/ more than two active brain cells will make the right choice in regaurd to our personal preservation. I'm not at all oposed to helmets or other saftey features. I am adamently against being forced into anything, no matter how "good" it is for me. Freak'n nazi mutha chickens, anyway, Rob | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
Comes to to personal choice & avoiding any government intervention. What if the government told you what radio station you had to listen to while in the car or perhaps outlawed listening to any at all since it could prove distracting? Get rid of the cup holders too since you dont need to drink soda/water while driving. Im a big boy & am capable of making my own decisions on when to wear a helmet. Does this make me anti-helmet?????? Hell no, it makes me anti-government. As a matter of fact I just snapped this pic 2 minutes ago of a few of my helmets. Plus I was at the local Honda dealer earlier today checking out 2 of the new Icon helmets. I like helmets, just dont want someone forcing me to wear it. | ||
| Daves |
I'm kind of like Dyna on this one(God, did I just really say that?!) I have been a member of ABATE for 18 years. I LIKE to have the CHOICE of whether or not I'm going to wear a helmet. I do, almost always, on the Buell. Almost never on the HDs. I guess I must be an idiot too. Oh well. PS, I don't wear a seatbelt either unless I see a cop Dave | ||
| Cataract2 |
Speaking of helmets, what does everyone use to clean the bugs off theirs? | ||
| Jlnance  |
I've had some training in handling vehicles and my wife complains I drive like a little old lady. Of course, I have scared her several times when I needed to make a maneuver that she didn't think was .. normal. LOL - Thats funny. I know your wife. I met her at a traffic stop near Boone. She was asking if she could pass our group because we were going too slowly for her. She was riding her Blast like a bat out of H@ll. So she badgers you about driving like an old lady | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
have been a member of ABATE for 18 years. I LIKE to have the CHOICE of whether or not I'm going to wear a helmet. I do, almost always, on the Buell. Almost never on the HDs. I guess I must be an idiot too. Oh well. PS, I don't wear a seatbelt either unless I see a cop Carbon copy of me | ||
| Chainsaw  |
If the government was so concerned with saving lives by legislation, they would ban smoking. Think of the immense amount of money that could be saved on health care. Accidental fires caused by cigarettes...POOF! Gone overnight. Why not ban cars altogether too? 40,000 people would be saved this year. Dependence on Foreign Oil...POOF! Gone overnight. Our citizens would be healthier from walking or biking to work and not breathing foul exhaust fumes. If we could save just ONE life... (save the flames boys, just illustrating a point) I'm a Libertarian. If I want to skydive, ride lidless or fire up a stogie, don't deny me. I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions. |
