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Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 08:19 pm: | 
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And othe than exceeding the displacement limits, other modifications are allowed?
Wow, that makes the XB12R a real overdog for sure. For the sake of economy, I'd go with an XB12R with a racing exhaust and Techlusion or Power Commander EFI augmentation box.
What kind of top speeds are you achieving with your SV at the tracks where you race? You may not even need the chain conversion. |
Buell_brener
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 09:47 pm: |
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Court, You seem to be extremely knowledgeable when it comes to the Buell factory. Just how american is the american sport bike?
Note this isnt meant to be a loaded question I think Eric Buell is to be admired for realizing his dreams. Just a curiosity of mine.
Regards |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:17 pm: |
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Eric stated in one of the Brit bike mags that a V-Rod Buell is basically never going to happen. It's huge, heavy, and only makes 15hp more than the XB12 motor.
I read those comments too, in MCN U.K, when they featured the CityX, which they gave high praise to incidentally.
Rocket |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:27 pm: |
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Buell:
First of all, it's Erik, not Eric. We'll get the easy stuff out of the way first.
Now, to your question.
The Buell is as American as your Dell computer from Texas. The two, in fact, are quite similar in that they use the best mix of technology, performance and value to produce a superior consumer product.
The parts come, like those in my Ford pickup, from around the world. Places like Italy and Japan are offer essentially supermarkets of motorcycle parts be they CEV controls or Showa suspension.
Let's take, for the instant question, the Showa suspension.
In the early stages of a platform program Buell engineers (also from around the world in a most interesting mix) work with teams from Showa to develop the bikes suspension systems.
This works out really well for us as Buell owners. In fact, Buell has learned a great deal from Showa. Some who have been about for a while recall when component parts, say for S-2 front forks, were tough to come by. Buell listed it as an "assembly", something like "front fork assembly".
Well, the reality and technology of long distance and language barriers had the Showa folks demanding that Buell assign individual part numbers early in the game. That way a fellow in Japan, speaking no English, and a Mexican in East Troy, can effectively collaborate about say a 10176.42Y (that's not a real number) which may be a fork seal. The process has made the development process more polished, ergo the final product.
To work closer to the heart of your question, Buell works toward the "best", not the most "nationalistic" solution. Try building a bike with American controls and suspension. It's not that it can't be done, it just makes fitting into the price, value, performance box tougher.
A good comparison might be your home or auto insurance, try buying from a company that is headquartered in the town you live in. That'll give you a very basic sense of how the global community works.
Buell has a team of purchasing engineers, some quite talented folks, who work with engineering teams to see to it that once the engineers get their specs met that things like availability, servicabilty and other commercial metrics are met.
Next the ball gets swatted into the court of one of India's best imports to America who, along with his team, sets about defining "quality". Bear in mind that "quality" has multiple components. Being "good" (fitness for purpose) is only one part. Being able to be the "same good" something like 99.97% (we'll talk about Sixth Sigma later) comes. "Great" is nothing if it's not consistently repeatable and if known inputs of resources don't produce consistent, predictable and known end products. A good example of this would be the current Verlucchi frame from Italy. The story is a long one and I'm not entirely sure I have all the facts, but I'd venture to say the best lesson the Italians ever got in making great frames consistently was taught to them by kids from WI.
Bottom line is, as you ride down the road the two most "American" parts of your Buell are you and the genius that went into bringing the proper mix of parts from all over the globe together to paint that ear to ear grin on your face.
I hope that sheds some light on the subject.
By the way, as I look at my Buellodex, the bike may be about the same "global composition" as the wonderful people I have met on them. Had I restricted my friendships to "Americans Only", I'd have missed out on some of the most incredible parts of my life.
Now....you may get off the milk crate (if you do not know what the milk crate is, we'll have another chat soon), take a careful look at that Buell and ask yourself, "if I had to build the best motorcycle I could and I had the choice, would I shop at the Auto Zone in Peoria or use the world as my tool box".
Ride safe, lean much and smile more,
Court |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:46 pm: |
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Buell, the melting pot of Sport Bikes. Is that American or what?
Blake (German-Italian-English-Irish-French... American  ) |
Buell_brener
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 11:32 pm: |
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Are Buells really six sigma is anything really?
As far as the milk crate comment goes can't imagine what you mean.
I do know that Triumphs are popular next bikes
among Buell owners. |
Paulinoz
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 01:12 am: |
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"As far as the milk crate comment goes can't imagine what you mean."
I will attempt to answer this but that does not imply I am trying to answer for Court, that is a pair of boots I will never step into.
It refers to a long time Courtism (is that a word) when you are lost,lonely or stumped by a bike related problem, grab said milk crate and park it next to your Buell,sitting on said crate study the bike for a while.
If you look long enough and hard enough you may see somthing you missed befor.
If this fails try WAX ON, WAX OFF, WAX ON WAX OFF.
and if nothing else your bike will get a polish. |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 01:35 am: |
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Paul,
"Crate time" isn't religated only to when your trying to fix something.
I have used the term for quite some time and it includes just sitting there looking at what's right with the world and/or your (insert mechanical object here).
It is particularly effective with motorcycles of any type but especially fulfulling when related to your Buell(s).
Sometimes it doesen't even involve anything in particular.
Just the act of sitting there on your milk crate or rollie around stool often fixes things with your self that you may not have even known were broken.
Brad |
John89147
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 09:29 am: |
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Okay guys, I need your help with something.
The local dealership here in Vegas has asked us to make up a wish list for them. They are wanting to know what we would like them to offer us as the Sponsor for our BRAG group. Could you guys let me know what types of deals you guys get hooked up with now with your sponsors. I am trying to get this done by today, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. See ya....... |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 09:43 am: |
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If they just give you a place to hold meetings and a bulletin board that's great.
If they give you a discount on parts and services as part of membership that's better.
If they help sponsor events such as BattleTrax or track days that's even better.
What would you like from them, what do they expect in return from you?
You could offer to lead demo rides, help out at store events, other stuff too.
I'm not currently in BRAG nor in a BRAG club at the moment so I'll bow out at this point. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 09:46 am: |
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"I'm not currently in BRAG nor in a BRAG club at the moment so I'll bow out at this point."
Until you have something else thoughtful to add.  |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 09:54 am: |
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Yep. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:26 am: |
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John, I'm going through a BRAG startup in Kansas City. Here are some of the things we have discussed.
- Newlsetter: They will print a BRAG newsleter and pay postage for 2 years. They have a HOG newsletter so we will use the same production resource.
- P.O.T - The dealer will pay housing for 2 officers to attend in 05 & 06.
- Meeting room
- Commitment to work with our chapter to define parts & clothing inventory.
- We are discussing a SPORTBIKE day ala Appleton Buell event, or a dedicated Buell open house to possibly include Buell demo truck / Battletrax / The Thunderbolts.
- Local BRAG has full access/interchange with the dealers HOG events (1200 members). The main benefit here is access to their training seminars. We may tag along on their rides, and HOG members are welcome to come on BRAG rides. This may prove to be a key benefit for both clubs as we will attract those HD people who have been curious about Buells, and the HOG club has an outlet for those members who object to the slow pace.
- Does the dealer have a staff member who runs their HOG club? Get them to help you. Sign them up as a board member or Dealer Liason. He/She has done this before, utilize the expertise.
- The enthusiasm of the Dealer principal is key if you want a good Buell dealer to interact with as a consumer. Lacking that use them as a sponsor to get a BRAG number and do your own thing. Iv'e done it both ways.
BRAG clubs are very scarce, our next neighbor is the Littleton, CO club. Perhaps we can meet your club at the Colorado BRAG adventure. Good Luck! |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:30 am: |
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John -- some dealers help the chapter as follows:
chapter has, at each meeting, a 50/50 raffle -- every one (that cares to) buys a raffle ticket ($1 per, 6 for $5 at one chapter I know) -- tix are drawn from a hat, the winners getting a quart of oil, t-shirt, gloves, part, accessory, with the last winning ticket getting 50% of the kitty, with the other 50% going into the chapter coffers -- dealership donates the oil, t-shirt, generally dusty part that's been sitting on the shelf ofr a while (win-win, dealer no longer pays for the space the part is taking, winner gets a goody) . .. .
not sure how wide spread it is, but it happens at a couple of dealership ==
this appears to start a mini-buying frenzy (hey, that's a great t-shirt Bubba won, I think I'll get one too -- hey, waht'shisname just won some oil, I need to change mine!) -- I'm thinking it's a wash or a very small net loss/gain to the dealer,so every one comes out ahead -- gotta love that |
Crazyhorse
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
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This must be a younger group than i thought.
milk crate . |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
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quote:I've yet to see any numbers that way the V-Rod motor is heavier/larger than the XB12 motor... anyone have any? Not saying its not true....but I've yet to see it "proven".
Hell, there's no need to prove it. I've had both engines side by side. The thing is tremendous in every respect. It dwarfs the XB motor. It's longer, taller, wider, and the cylinder heads are absolutely huge...then add a radiator and an overflow tank and it's very unbuellish. It really doesn't look bigger 'till you have something to compare it to.
It will obviously weigh more...how much I don't know. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:10 pm: |
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Rick...Thanks a million! At last a side by side comparo. Here to date, it has been "looked at it on the showroom floor and it looked like it would fit."
Now perhaps someday, someone will try to set a V-Rod motor into a tube and/or new style frame and post some pics.
If nothing else, it will be a great exercise in humor, eh?
Psst...Somebody build me the Super StreetTracker in my avatar. Please!!! |
Jerry_haughton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
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It dwarfs the XB motor. It's longer, taller, wider, and the cylinder heads are absolutely huge...then add a radiator and an overflow tank and it's very unbuellish.
which is not to say you couldn't build a damn fine Buell around one.
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Ccryder
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:45 pm: |
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3 years ago at the IMS in STL I was talking to a Buell Engineer that was working at their booth. He mentioned that they already had fitted a V-Rod engine in an XB for a design exercise. It will fit but they didn't spend the time trying to fit the radiator and other goodies. From what he was saying they never had it running but it looked kinda cool.
Time2Work
Neil S. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 03:29 pm: |
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Scott Miller told me they'd tried sit-up and beg style bars on an XB9R, this was at the 9's UK launch, and they couldn't make the XB handle at all.
Rocket |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
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Psst...Somebody build me the Super StreetTracker in my avatar. Please!!!
Get the 3D surface/solid model assembly for the VROD motor, I'll model, and render you one up outrider |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 05:09 pm: |
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Didn't José Q. get some measurements on the V-Rod motor. And I recall someone who saw that V-Rod engined test muell on the road, or am I mistaken?
Mike? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:00 pm: |
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the 2 valve pushrod aircooled engine is in no way limiting the top speed nor acceleration potential of the XB platform. the bike accelerates as hard as its 52 inch wheelbase will allow. the vrod engine,with its plumbing system, would make a pig out of a buell chassis.
if it is a vrod you want, then HD will happily sell you one. dean |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:21 pm: |
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"the bike accelerates as hard as its 52 inch wheelbase will allow"
For the most part... It ceases to do this at about 60 (w/o use of the clutch). Above that would be where more HP would help. |
Jerry_haughton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:07 pm: |
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...the vrod engine,with its plumbing system, would make a pig out of a buell chassis.
i'll agree that the V-Rod engine and the current XB chassis seem an unlikely duo.
but what if you built a Buell chassis specifically for the V-Rod engine? say, oh, 56-inch wheelbase, six gallon fuel capacity, rational sport-touring ergos and functional sport-touring bodywork (need a place to hide the radiator, right?) including integrated luggage (easily removable, natch), with all the legendary Buell backroad prowess stir fried into a package equally competent to comfortably hump from California to South Carolina to Colorado and back to do the Blue Ridge Parkway and Canyonlands and Yosemite.
Dean, would you not be intrigued by such a machine?
i know I would.
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Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:10 pm: |
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would you not be intrigued by such a machine?
I know *I* would be. But the bike you're dreaming of, would most likely cost about what we paid for the 6 bikes we currently own, combined |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:53 pm: |
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What is with you guys and hard luggage? I'm tellin' ya, the Vetura packa and soft bags is all you need and then when you are not touring you can hit the track or beebop around town on a naked sport bike. Ya really oughta try it. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:55 pm: |
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Here's another philosophy that makes sense to me... if it wouldn't look good on your woman, why put it on your bike. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:56 pm: |
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Blake,
Naaah. I like hard bags, that are able to be locked and such. Heck, I'm even modeling up a "tour pac" type of hard bag for my S3 |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:57 pm: |
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Or the wine could be going to my head. Yep.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
I'm thankful for each and every one of you, including Sean Pepper, and Greg P. |
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