| Author | Message | ||
     Road_thing  |
Go for it, dude...  | ||
| CJXB  |
 | ||
| Rocketman  |
Arty, that is meant as a joke............ you got mail too.  CJ, I like your above post. In fact, it's the best thing you've ever said on the BadWeB  . Don't take me serious luv. just having a laugh wid ya  Rocket | ||
| José_quiñones  |
I believe Rocket was calling the riders "Donkeys" not the bikes. That being said, I don't think the AMA was thinking of Buell at all when they switched to running the 200 using Formula Extreme Bikes. The track owners, scared of the tire safety issues that happened last year, pretty much forced the AMA to switch under threat of removing the sanction of that event from the AMA event to the Formula USA series, who races there the weekend before the AMA does. Ironically, the FUSA "Superbike" class is also 600cc based, with lower voltage "stars" at the controls if you will. So the Track owners got what they wanted, a lighter/lower powered class of bikes to race on a reconfigured track which should eliminate tire issues. That Buell gets to race in the 200 next March is icing on the cake for Buell race fans and any HD fans that happen to wander into the speedway on Saturday March 12th. The full Superbikes and lower spec Superstock bikes will still race there, but for shorter "sprint" races. So all the stars and their bikes will be there and race, but not for the 200. | ||
| Blake  |
Sean, AMA FX rules are not much different from FIM World Supersport Rules, which permit the Duc 749R's to race against the IL4 600's. The AMA simply also wrote rules to allow the Buells to race competitively too. But I guess for you it is ALL about displacement. How close-minded of you. | ||
| Newfie_buell  |
You know, There is nothing wrong with the size of the piston and the lenght of the stroke!!!!!  There is no replacement for displacement!!! | ||
| Rocketman |
How close-minded of you. Blake man, what's up with you? I demand the moderators remove your post. That comment is nothing more than a personal attack upon me. Truth is Blake, I like all sorts of motor racing but unlike perhaps yourself, I prefer to have a life too. Thus I limit myself to try and follow where and when possible, Moto GP, WSB and BSB, if you were to count on a regular basis, because they represent the best of the best. This way, I'm not an anorak and I find time in my life for other more pressing pursuits like children, music, work, 916's, TVR's, reading MCN every week and, not forgetting, going to the toilet daily. Hey but don't get me wrong. I've been known to put my feet up and watch a 125 and a 250 GP too you know, and more than once! It's a busy life! Rocket | ||
| CJXB |
CJ, I like your above post. Yeah, those kind seem to work better for me !!  | ||
| Blake |
If AMA Formula Xtreme is good enough for factory Honda and Miguel Duhamel, it's good enough for me. I'm curious, how many BSB riders graduate straight to MotoGP? How many former AMA riders now run in MotoGP? Why would Neil Hodgson choose to come race AMA Superbike instead of returning to WSB or BSB? Ben Bostrom who has trouble winning AMA Superbike races won six straight WSB races. It's all motorcycle racing and it's all good. It is unfortunate that you see fit to inject insults and derision into a discussion about motorcycle racing. I really wish you would cease participating on the site until you can see fit to turn your attitude around for the positive. Really. Please leave. If you are a motorcycle racing fan, but you are not enthused about Buells racing in the Daytona 200 in AMA Formula Xtreme, you don't belong on this site. It's that simple. (Message edited by blake on November 23, 2004) | ||
| Bomber  |
Sean -- while I admire Ducati's efforts, both on the track in the market place, there's one big difference between the Ducati and HD/Buell -- one of them has consistantly turned a profit while I love racing as much as anyone, if the choice is a World Championship or survival of the marque, I'll take survival any time -- one of these brands has received bail out after bail out after bail out -- from an historic persepctive, as well as from a rider's point of view, I'm glad they have -- from a business perspective, there were any one of a number of points in the recent past that shuttering the plant would have been rational (I'm glad it didn't happen, btw) the short version of this is, if I hads to choose between a RoadGlideSpringerNightwatchman and a 999, I's choose the 999, thank you very much -- if the choice was between HD and Ducati stock, that's equally a no brainer be nice, become a regulator, and then delete yer own posts (or mine, for that matter) ;-} | ||
| Rocketman |
If AMA Formula Xtreme is good enough for factory Honda and Miguel Duhamel, it's good enough for me. It's the choice they had, or hadn't as the case maybe. I'm curious, how many BSB riders graduate straight to MotoGP? How many former AMA riders now run in MotoGP? BSB to Moto GP differs season to season, but usually new recruits get the leftovers to ride, if there are any. AMA to Moto GP, you tell me. Why would Neil Hodgson choose to come race AMA Superbike instead of returning to WSB or BSB? He said he'd walk the 2005 WSB championship, so wanted a new challenge. No one has won BSB, WSB and AMA titles consecutively yet. He claims that's his goal. Ben Bostrom who has trouble winning AMA Superbike races won six straight WSB races. I don't think anyone doubts his talents do they? I've read that some have issues with his ability to string a full championship winning season together. It's all motorcycle racing and it's all good. Absolutely. It is unfortunate that you see fit to inject insults and derision into a discussion about motorcycle racing. I really wish you would cease participating on the site until you can see fit to turn your attitude around for the positive. I don't see it that way. I did say "I'd like to see Daytona won by the fastest, most powerful category of production based racer. If that were Buell I'd be amazed", and I genuinely would be. Something along the lines of Britten's success perhaps. As for insults and derision, what insults and derision? All I did was moan and groan about how I'm not happy with the way the Mother company has faced up to owning Buell, especially when it comes to racing, or is it that Buell simply aren't capable, like Ducati for example (and only example - for John's benefit), are of building a premier class racing motorcycle. Perhaps I'm wrong to point the finger of blame at HD, and it really is Buell who are not up to the task. Do you expect me to really believe that? Well I don't, but I do believe that HD can seriously afford to go racing top line anytime they please and I'm pretty damn sure that Buell have the talent to put a package together, and that's why pizzing around in Formula Xtreme doesn't do it for me like it should. Ok, it might for you, but I prefer my racing kicks at the pinnacle of the different disciplines, of which I don't see Formula Xtreme as one of them. Bravo to Buell though if that's where they're happy at but please don't ask nor expect me to wave a flag. I'll do that when they're in Super Bike racing thank you. Really. Please leave. If you are a motorcycle racing fan, but you are not enthused about Buells racing in the Daytona 200 in AMA Formula Xtreme, you don't belong on this site. It's that simple. I never said I wasn't enthused about Buells racing in the Daytona 200 in AMA Formula Xtreme, though I'm not bothered either way. I'm disappointed that some seek for whatever political agendas to take away or lessen the greatness of some of the greatest races. It seems now this applies to the 200 too. As for Buell's running in the lesser now premier category my point is simply that the gilt is slightly tarnished on the trophy as the history books will portray the event in a wholly different light. Simply, I don't consider it the premier event it once was so why feel so special about it when in fact I feel more ripped off? You think I should be made up because Buell are now in the running? Sorry it hurts your sensibilities but that's not good enough for me. As for belonging on this site, I belong here just as much as anyone else, including you. In fact, I helped build BadWeB into what it is today and I'll thank you for some respect for doing so. Further, I've stayed loyal to the BadWeB because the place had a real feel for having its feet firmly on the ground. The place felt real. Something I thought I helped give it. In recent years you seek to make the place so sycophantically Buell, Bush and god damn American. It's not your personal soap box where your views and your views alone should stand as guidelines to what or who's allowed to post. I thought the installation of more custodians was an effort to keep BadWeB well behaved yet essentially democratic. You're ignorance to the reality of the place doesn't reflect what the BadweB has really become. A great place where some great people can speak their mind, and not just about Buells, and they can do so without the heavy handed tactics you're employing or the sarcastic and plain rude comments asking participants to leave. Take away the 'live act' by injecting your sterile attitude, using your growing army of custodians to police rather than placate the place, spoils the whole ethos of what's kept the BadWeB so good for so long. Perhaps I will fcuk off, but it will be my choice Blake, not yours. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Don't count on it. | ||
| Rocketman |
Oh but I do. Me fcuking off isn't the same as you deleting me. Do it if you're so high and mighty. It's yours and the BadWeB's loss, not mine. I've a life outside of a computer, where I really do make a difference. Play your little power game you prick. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Question: If AMA Formula Xtreme is good enough for factory Honda and Miguel Duhamel, it's good enough for me. Seansays: It's the choice they had, or hadn't as the case maybe. What the heck does that mean? HRC can race competitively anywhere they felt like it. Question: I'm curious, how many BSB riders graduate straight to MotoGP? How many former AMA riders now run in MotoGP? Seansays: BSB to Moto GP differs season to season, but usually new recruits get the leftovers to ride, if there are any. AMA to Moto GP, you tell me. I don't know of a single contemporary BSB rider who graduated straight from BSB to MotoGP. I know of many AMA riders who have, including former champion Kenny Roberts Jr., Nicky Hayden, John Hopkins, and Kurtis Roberts. Question: Why would Neil Hodgson choose to come race AMA Superbike instead of returning to WSB or BSB? Seansays: He said he'd walk the 2005 WSB championship, so wanted a new challenge. No one has won BSB, WSB and AMA titles consecutively yet. He claims that's his goal. Winning all three "consecutively" will be a real trick since he won the 2001 BSB, 2003 WSB and next season he will contesting the 2005 AMA SB. So you mis-spoke, he has no possibility of winning the championships "consecutively." He has a chance of winning each of them, also never before done. Maybe he will try in Australia and Japan too?  Neil is coming to America to race AMA SB because it is more prestigious than BSB and far more competitive than WSB. It is a step forward rather than backwards. That and Ducati needs a winner in AMA SB. The rules/class change for the Daytona 200 were purely for safety concerns. Tires were falling apart on the superbikes and endangering the lives of the riders. So your idea that the Daytona racing class configurations were changed according to some kind of pro-Buell political agenda is not only wrong, but given the history of AMAPR screwing Buell, it is laughable. How's Aprilia doing in Superbike these days? You seem to have some idea that a small company can simply throw a switch and become a force in Superbike racing. Your view of that type of effort is extremely naive. You expect Buell with no other expetience to simply invent a superbike and start racing it on the world stage. What happened to the KTM MotoGP effort? How's that Aprilia MotoGP team doing? All those BMW's in world class racing are so inspiring. Not to mention the Moto Guzzis. Hey, who could ever forget all the MV Augusta superbike championships for the last few years. Get a clue. One step at a time... FUSA... Pro-Thunder... Formula Xtreme... who knows what might be next. | ||
| Rocketman |
Question: If AMA Formula Xtreme is good enough for factory Honda and Miguel Duhamel, it's good enough for me. Seansays: It's the choice they had, or hadn't as the case maybe. What the heck does that mean? HRC can race competitively anywhere they felt like it. It means they probably wouldn't bother being in it if the rule changes hadn't promoted the FX race to premier position. Question: I'm curious, how many BSB riders graduate straight to MotoGP? How many former AMA riders now run in MotoGP? Seansays: BSB to Moto GP differs season to season, but usually new recruits get the leftovers to ride, if there are any. AMA to Moto GP, you tell me. I don't know of a single contemporary BSB rider who graduated straight from BSB to MotoGP. I know of many AMA riders who have, including former champion Kenny Roberts Jr., Nicky Hayden, John Hopkins, and Kurtis Roberts. Jeremy McWilliams, Steve Hislop, Chris Walker, Chris Burns, Barry Sheene, Phil Read, Mick Grant, Jamie Whitam.................the list is endless. As for AMA riders getting the breaks into GP, that's very true. They are often favoured in an effort to promote bike sales in the US, a predominantly cruiser orientated market. Well know facts, though I grant you, the AMA is no doubt a great series and the talent is superb. Question: Why would Neil Hodgson choose to come race AMA Superbike instead of returning to WSB or BSB? Seansays: He said he'd walk the 2005 WSB championship, so wanted a new challenge. No one has won BSB, WSB and AMA titles consecutively yet. He claims that's his goal. Winning all three "consecutively" will be a real trick since he won the 2001 BSB, 2003 WSB and next season he will contesting the 2005 AMA SB. So you mis-spoke, he has no possibility of winning the championships "consecutively." He has a chance of winning each of them, also never before done. Maybe he will try in Australia and Japan too? Neil is coming to America to race AMA SB because it is more prestigious than BSB and far more competitive than WSB. It is a step forward rather than backwards. That and Ducati needs a winner in AMA SB. Power games over my incorrect wording. Child! AMA is not seen by ANY of the Jap four as you describe it. BSB is known to be the best national series anywhere in the world. It's about the tracks. It's about the teams, and it's about our race engineering technology. Sadly our riders are often overlooked because of sponsorship deals and team politics elsewhere. The rules/class change for the Daytona 200 were purely for safety concerns. Tires were falling apart on the superbikes and endangering the lives of the riders. So your idea that the Daytona racing class configurations were changed according to some kind of pro-Buell political agenda is not only wrong, but given the history of AMAPR screwing Buell, it is laughable. But they're not falling apart now are they. As for some kind of pro-Buell political agenda, you misunderstood me. My point was simply, as Jose pointed out, the rule change fell good for Buell. That for me only serves to take the shine off it. How's Aprilia doing in Superbike these days? They're in 125cc, 250cc and Moto GP You seem to have some idea that a small company can simply throw a switch and become a force in Superbike racing. Your view of that type of effort is extremely naive. You expect Buell with no other expetience to simply invent a superbike and start racing it on the world stage. John Britten (won everything), Norton F1 (won the Senior TT), Foggy Petronas (has hit the podium several times in only their second season - including 2nd places), WCM (one mans money racing at the back of the grid in Moto GP on a prototype machine - marvelous) What happened to the KTM MotoGP effort? Last I heard they were leasing their engine for a million quid to anyone interested. King Kenny's Proton (a British built contraption) tested the KTM motor recently in one of their revised chassis. KTM are talking of using the motor in a future superbike - and they probably will knowing the Austrian's and KTM How's that Aprilia MotoGP team doing? The team is doing fine running lower mid field but they might not get the funds from new owners Piagio to run next season, though they'll still be winning in 125 and 250GP's All those BMW's in world class racing are so inspiring. The Dakar is out on its own. I agree. Marvelous stuff. Not to mention the Moto Guzzis. Moto Guzzi's? Hey, who could ever forget all the MV Augusta superbike championships for the last few years. Yep, the F4 1000 dipped a toe in the water this season, and they're serious about racing in 2006, and it will be an awesome effort no doubt. The bike is superb, which speaks for itself. Get a clue. One step at a time... Oh you're so square FUSA... Pro-Thunder... Formula Xtreme... who knows what might be next. More American pie? You know, like in most of all your threads, and the above post, it's always about how good and great America is. So what? You get a clue will ya. Take the blinkers off! There's another world outside here and sometimes, like others do, you get your arse kicked. Motorcycle racing is one of those times Britain often kicks America's, but not necessarily on the track. Get a passport and open your eyes. Televisions and computers are merely tools of propaganda. Come see and breathe it. Rocket | ||
| José_quiñones |
Don't forget Shakey Byrne went straight from BSB to the Aprilia MotoGP team. Speaking of Aprilia, when they did choose to race in WSBK, they WON RACES and almost the championship, causing great consternation inside HD headquarters back then (ie, how can they take a 60 degree vtwin and make a winner out of it within 2 years at that level while Scheibe's VR1000 efforts were barely beating AMA Superbike privateers after years of development?) If you ask Aprilia folks now, they might admit that switching to MotoGP was a mistake, draining more money than a factory WSBK Superbike would have and loosing the marketing link between the race bike and the street bike they want to sell (the Mille). They might have had an AMA Superbike by this time too since the development of the WSBK would have helped them to share the costs. But they're not falling apart now are they. That's the point, the AMA and the track owners want to make sure that does not happen again. There are still other tracks here in the US where there are concerns that the Superbikes are outgrowing the tracks. The AMA considers Formula Extreme is considered a potential future replacment for Superbike if the desicion is made at some point to stop racing 1000cc Full Superbikes for safety reasons. Interestingly, Erik B. told me at homecoming that the he heard that Honda was lobbying to the FIM to consider an FX type class to replace the 250 GP class in the future and the FIM was studying the AMA's experience with the class. Argue on.... (Message edited by josé_quiñones on November 24, 2004) | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
------------ In recent years you seek to make the place so sycophantically Buell, Bush and god damn American. }------------ Sorta like the way you make it all about Banning guns, Bitching, and god damn British? | ||
| José_quiñones |
One other thing, BSB had MORE factory involvement than AMA does at the Superbike level last year and will probably do so again next year. | ||
| Bluebuellxb9r  |
Hey, but at least there will be a factor Yamaha team this year. I just read that Kawi inst going to field a Sb team this year, they will leave those duties to Josh Hayes and the Attack team again this year. | ||
| Blake |
Contemporary riders who went straight from BSB to MotoGP. Try again. HRC raced FX this year, long before any decision about changing the Daytona 200 to FX was ever considered. Try again. Your riders are often overlooked because they often cannot compete at the highest levels. It took Baylis and Edwards leaving WSB so Hodgeson could win a championship. I see, it's fine and dandy that Aprilia races the support classes, but when Buell does it is somehow unworthy of note. Right. And in your mind, allowing Buells to race competitively, just as Ducati 749R's are allowed in FIM SS and AMA FX is some kind of good fortune in rules changes. Allowing a bike to race is certainly good fortune for those seeking to race it. I guess if that is how you look at it you are right. But you see it as some kind of rules concession benefitting Buell. You'll have to explain that to me. I've raced in too many classes where all manner of engine configurations were allowed with engine displacement limits set accordingly to view such a class with anything but admiration and enthusiasm. Frankly your attempts to belittle and deride Buell for any racing effort they might support simply don't belong on this board. Take that to your own discussion board www.seansworldofshit.com and see how it fares. No one wants to hear your petty belittling of Buell here. Come see and breath it? Note photo to left. That would be me, racing a Buell motorcycle. No chrome frame, no blown-up engine. Just me and a simple old Buell Cyclone putting down a thousand plus miles worth of laps at the track. How many races have you run there Sean? The blinders are on, but they aren't on me Sean. It amazes me how some will laud and applaude all efforts of any magnitude of other brands in the racing arena, but when it comes to Buell, it's all ••••. Neither do I make a point of belittling anyone's racing efforts. For me it's all good. I've just grown more and more sick and tired of your negativism here. Either change that •••• attitude or take a hike. If you think that this should be a forum where should be free to belittle Buell, berate America and bash our President, you are sorely mistaken. Suggest you accept that or leave. JQ, Aprilia almost won WSB? I must have missed that. They don't even race in WSB and haven't for years. Hey, there's an effort to hold up for all the world to see and applaude. How can you applaude that out one side of your mouth and deride the HD effort out the other? Unbelievable. Last I heard Aprilia was bankrupt and up for sale. But hey, they won a few WSB races way back when and they have a MotoGP effort that is not showing any promise. They have NEVER raced in AMA SB. WOOOHOOO. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye  |
www.seansworldofshit.com Link no worky   | ||
| Blake |
More factory involvement in BSB? I guess they had more than WSB too then. But I don't see any successful WSB riders fighting to get into BSB. So what is your point? Do you doubt for one second that most BSB riders would jump at the chance to move to the AMA SB series? Get real. | ||
| Firebolt020283  |
common guys we are grown men do we have to fight like kids geesh. I thought the people here liked buell thats why we ride buell. I love buell and my country very much and at the same time i dont bash other countrys (though i might make a negitive comet about other brands of bikes). Buell races in a few classes were there bike fits in according to the rules why is that a problem? Im proud to see that the same bike i have (had and fixing to have agin) is able to compete in and, for the most part i can buy just about every thing thats on those bikes and put it on my bike (with the exeption of the race ecu). Isnt that something to be proud of? last i checked i cant go buy a moto gp bike or the products in which they use.  | ||
| Bcordb3  |
I see a lot of name dropping and no mention of Wayne Rainey, didn't he win some big championship before he was injured? | ||
| Tripper  |
Wayne Rainey, like his boss King Kenny Roberts, won 3 World 500cc Grand Prix titles. Wayne was leading the points race for a 4th championship when disaster struck him in Italy.  | ||
| José_quiñones |
Aprilia almost won WSB? I must have missed that. You must have, because back in 2000 (maybe you were not a race fan back then) Troy Corser won Five World Superbike races on his Aprilia Mille, led the championship for part of the season before ending in 3rd place behind Colin Edwards on his RC51 and Noriuki Haga on his R7. At that time the VR1000 was having a hard time beating privateers and both riders finished outside the top 10 in points. Not slamming, just the facts. The reason the level of factory support in BSB vs AMA is important because the BSB Superbike development is directly related to WSBK Superbike development. The the rules are basically the same and they race on many of the same tracks, so the factories get more out of the money they spend there than they do with the AMA series, whose rules are different and the tracks are WAY different. Rider Talent between AMA vs. BSB, is a separate question, but the level of rider in BSB is good enough for a lot of WBSK and MotoGp teams to look at them so they are not "donkeys" in any way. | ||
| Davegess |
Blake, Rocket, back away form your keyboards. Take deep breaths. Get ones ying straight with one yang. This is all opinions. There is no way to prove which series is better. We are all entitled to our opinions. My opinion is that the BSB series is certainly one of the top in the world, not much to choose between BSB and AMA in my opinion. It is true that BSB pays terrible so the AMA looks very attractive compared to that. The AMA boys make more money than all but the WSB and MOTOGP boys and that is not because it is a better series just because the sport bike market here is important. My opinion is also that AMA riders had a secret weapon in the days of King Kenny. They all had to ride dirt miles to win a championship. This gave them bike control skills unsurpased by anyone. Roberts hit GP's just about the time that the motors overpowered the tires and his high speed sliding was perfect for those bikes. Guys raised on road racing did not do that. US guys had an edge even after we went to an all pavement series because most had spendt time on dirt while the rest of the world hadn't, this went away with the arrival of the Australians. Now everyone trains on dirt but almost no one runs both miles and road races. Nicky H is perhaps the only road racer out there who could win an AMA Grand National Mile and I think he has huge potential in GP as a result. Regardless they are all wusses compared to John McQuiness and the rest of the TT boys! | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
Regardless they are all wusses compared to John McQuiness and the rest of the TT boys! Damn straight. Did you happen to see any of the pics from the Macau race? I believe its an island of the coast of china & the course is a rough one like the TT. Note that 5-7 place went to the americans. Final Results: Macau Grand Prix Results: 1. Michael RUTTER, GBR, Honda, 15 laps, 37:30.397 2. John McGUINNESS, GBR, Ducati, -0.518 second <=== All time record holder for fastest lap at the IOMTT 3. Stuart EASTON, GBR, Ducati, -24.821 seconds 4. Thomas HINTERREITER, AUT, Yamaha, -37.534 seconds 5. Josh HAYES, USA, Kawasaki, -52.457 seconds 6. Geoff MAY, USA, Suzuki, -59.116 seconds 7. Jeremy TOYE, USA, Yamaha, -73.969 seconds 8. Steve ALLAN, GBR, Kawasaki, -79.371 seconds 9. James McBRIDE, GBR, Suzuki, -99.698 seconds 10. Stephen THOMPSON, GBR, Suzuki, -102.024 seconds 11. Les SHAND, GBR, Suzuki, -102.728 seconds 12. Marcel KELLENBERGER, SUI, Kawasaki, -106.211 seconds 13. Martin FINNEGAN, IRL, Yamaha, -110.440 seconds 14. Markus BARTH, GER, Kawasaki, -130.865 seconds 15. Richard BRITTON, GBR, Suzuki, -136.480 seconds 16. Rui REIGOTO, POR, Suzuki, -141.406 seconds 17. Horst SAIGER, AUT, Yamaha, -143.594 seconds 18. Jos LEITE, POR, Kawasaki, -143.951 seconds 19. Callum RAMSAY, GBR, Triumph, -146.007 sconds 20. Cameron DONALD, AUS, Honda, -148.454 seconds Here's a pic of a portion of the track. Takes some huge balls to run a bike there  | ||
| M1combat  |
Where did you get that pic Dyna? | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
 click for website |
