| Author |
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Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 09:00 pm: | 
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Mike, fly over to England. I'll pay. Come ride my 916. Take it anywhere you like. Thrash it or baby it. It's no more or less than I've done. All I ask it that you push the inside bar to steer or lean. I'm not interested in whether or not you can re-set the odometer, brush your hair or masturbate. Just push the inside bar on the 916. Not as a one off though. That wouldn't be fair. Nope, you gotta prove pushing the inside bar is a controllable, do-able steering effort. If you're successful I'll give you the fcuking bike. Hell, I'll pay your shipping costs back to the US too. Think you can still do it?
Here's the proviso. If you can't do as you think you can, you buy me a new XB12S - and pick up your own expenses to get here and home again.
Now let's see who's ludicrous. When should I expect you to come make an idiot of yourself?
Rocket |
Keith
| | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 10:03 pm: |
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Please note that all of the above assumes riding on the street at street riding speeds on a streetbike with the normal forks and steering head and no steering stabilizer/dampener. I have no track or racing experience but from other posts here, it seems the same principles apply to higher speed riding.
Makes no difference. My race prepped (with steering damper) Honda F3 turns in just like my little XB does on the street. It is as you said.
Keith |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 03:36 am: |
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Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 10:20 pm:
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I have low sided twice on the street and twice on the race track-
Keith
I haven't!
Perhaps you should change your cornering technique 
Rocket |
P0p0k0pf
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 08:09 am: |
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I have never wrecked in any form. I've taken the MSF course (Harley-Davidson Riders Edge), read Total Control twice, read Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling, and I'm in the process of reading A Twist of the Wrist and Ride Hard Ride Smart. All of these resources talk about Countersteering and its importance. I am an advocate and I countersteer. If it doesn't work, I don't know how I've gotten through all those turns on the bike.
Total Control talks about using the inside hand to improve cornering response and control. I believe the point Lee Parks is trying to make is that choosing a hand, whether the inside or outside, allows you to improve your cornering technique by preventing the urge to fight your hands for control of the front wheel. The example Lee uses is the riding school he participated in. He tried his theory and it improved his cornering agility so much he crashed because he was able to turn so tight he ran off the inside of the turn.
A Twist of the Wrist has a good snapshot of a rider setting up for a sharp right. He's looking right, hanging right, leaning the bike right, and the wheel is clearly pointed left.
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I have low sided twice on the street and twice on the race track-
Keith
I haven't!
Perhaps you should change your cornering technique
Rocket
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That's just a cheap shot... Low-siding is result of a loss of traction.
Rocket, if you're argument were true, you'd be the only one on two-wheels my friend... |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 08:31 am: |
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Loss of traction
OR
Running out of Talent!!!!
You steer or lean the bike past it limits and your gonna low-side and pray that you don't high-side. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 09:02 am: |
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Rocket -- I've got 5 days of vaction left for calendar 04 -- please ping my email (found in my profile) about when it would be realistic for me to expect my ticket -- I'm there, brother! |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 09:17 am: |
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Rocketman.
I respectfully decline the offer.
If someone else wants to take him up please do.
Let's take a simple case of a long sweeper. Just last weekend I came upon a blind, right hand sweeper on a road I had never been on before. Naturally, I was within the speed limit of 45 mph. So I'm leaned over (not hanging off, not much of a lean) and about 1/4 of the way through the turn. I find I am close to the double yellow at this point because of where I entered the turn, so I'm going wider than I want to. With the throttle steady then just slightly increased, I give a feather light push on the inside (right) grip and the bike responds by leaning a little more and I have directed it to the inside of the corner where I proceed to round the turn about 2 feet from the white stripe. Using your words, that was a demonstration to myself that "pushing the inside bar is a controllable, do-able steering effort".
If that is not what you mean, please describe a step-by-step test that you would have me try so that I can face for myself a situation where "pushing the inside bar is not a controllable, do-able steering effort". I am not worried about a crash and I will be in full leathers; and it shouldn't be any more risky that trying a stoppie. I will also let everyone know if I end up making an idiot of myself!
I am, admittedly, a complete idiot when it comes to the physics of motorcycles and do not have much riding experience behind me. I need to experience things for myself. I just have not come across the situation where things happen (or don't happen the way you describe).
Mike.
p.s. I still have no idea what is happening as far as my input/steering when my bike comes out of a lean back to an upright position. I know it doesn't "just happen" but that's all I can say to describe the process right now. But that's another topic. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 12:09 pm: |
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Rocket...If you take Bomber up on the offer, let me know. We are good riding buddies and I will gladly pay my own way if you can dig up a bike for me to ride. I just want to sit and BS with you and have you show me the sights in the UK. |
Keith
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |
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I haven't!
Perhaps you should change your cornering technique
Rocket
Hey Rocket - I'll gladly give you the opportunity to teach me corning technique and how to properly turn a motorcycle at Oak Hill Raceway near Henderson, Texas on the date of your choosing. I would love to be "schooled" by one of the best!
Keith |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 06:56 pm: |
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P0pokDom, you really need to ride more man. Burn those fcuking books before you get blisters on yer palms.
Bomber, you buy me a NEW 12S when you can't push the inside bar on my 916. That's the story - morning glory. Are you offering to take the bet? You're the man. You're the man.....
Xb9ear, I'm confused. What's a blind right handed road sweeper got to do with cornering? Did you run him over or something?
Outdude, cheeky cheeky. Would be a great idea to get off the ground though. Bikes could be sortable - maybe. Digs might be a small problem but it's possible. Maybe bring a bunch of guys over, in summer time of course, and I'd promise you the best biking experience England, make that Yorkshire, could offer. This wonderful country of ours has a zillion hidden treasures too, never mind the well know ones.
Keith, Oak Hill's a ride in the park compared to Cadwell Park. Is there really a hill there? Cadwell's got a mountain!
Ah, just pulling your leg, man.
Thanks for the compliment though. I know I'm one of the best. At least that's what the vicar tells me when I off load my old socks and underpants to the Ladies of the Parish jumble sale. I'm afraid I'm at a loss though. What is cornering technique? Can I find it in the Kama-Sutra
My brains fried in this thread. I've fought tooth and nail to try explain what I'm talking about. It's not possible to get my point across is it. In a last ditch effort I want to throw a spanner in the works, because I find it so emotionally draining <grin>. Before I do, just let me go pour another bourbon 'n' coke.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 07:01 pm: |
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Jim and coke sorted!
So...........
This fella took an old flat tank Indian up onto the Wall of Death. As he approached the top of the wall doing all the fancy stuff, a white line clearly marking the height limit, said fella made a slight error of judgment and crossed over the white line. Which way did he turn the bars on that old Indian to go back down the wall?
Rocket |
Phillyblast
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 07:14 pm: |
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He didn't - he slid back down on the trail of oil it left on the way up. |
P0p0k0pf
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
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I don't understand your response Rooc1jketq (yeah I can butcher a name too). Are you saying that, if I ride more I'll start turning the "right" way? I don't see how someone would get through their first turn with your tricycle-turning-strategy... Apparently I seem to be doing something right- I haven't fallen over yet! Gotta thank that good ole countersteering...
I guess you're too badazz to learn from someone, eh? Yeah...screw the books- I wouldn't want to be caught READING A BOOK now, eh?
You know, over walking speed, I think the only rider who can yank the bars left at speed and go left is Bugs Bunny. Y'know....he's riding the Indian motorcycle with the headdress and warpaint on? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 10:45 pm: |
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When you cross the white line on the wall of death you roll off the throotle a little. You're already leaning... |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 05:10 am: |
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Excellent M1.
So which way did the steering go when the throttle was rolled off?
The same way it would if one were in a corner?
Rocket |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 05:57 am: |
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Rocket, we'll have to sort out for a European BadWeB trip & take in some other bits too (broaden the horizons of our colonial cousins) I'll lend someone my M2 & ride my old FJ12.
Just as long as the cornering debate gets settled within the first 2 days so we can all enjoy the vacation. |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 09:32 am: |
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Hey Grumpy,
I got dibs on one of your bikes!!!!
I don't give a hoot about cornering as I know how to corner and don't care about the physics behind it.
I just wanna see the English Countryside and parts of France.
I would like to sit down and have a few with Rocket too as I think that would be an adventure in itself.
Too bad we didn't have him in Corner Brook this past August............I could have seen real trouble there. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 09:36 am: |
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rocket -- youdamnbetcha (midwestern yank for yes)
where's my ticket?
;-}
(although I'll admit a little trepitdation now that it's a specific bike, rather than motorcycle steering we're discusssing, but I spose I shouldn't be too surprised by someone that ruins perfectly good Bourbon by diluting it with coke, fergoddenssakes!)
lol |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 09:48 am: |
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Screech
I'd have to smuggle it in with me. |
Ingemar
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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Grumpy,
I know you could go to calais, but drop by me anyways and we'll take the ferry in hoek van holland to dover. We then make it up to Yorkshire and wrap Rocket's 916 around an engish oak trying to countersteer on the wrong side of the road. We then download a bunch of them flat and lukewarm english pints together and teach ol' Rocket a lesson.
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Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
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Rocket & Grumpy...
I'm in for it. Sounds like a great time. Heck, I don't want to debate any issues, I just want to see the sights, enjoy the company and have Rocket describe it with a Bike in his hands. I still think we are just saying the same things only differently.
In reference to the Wall of Death, you point the front wheel in the direction of the turn down from the top. In essence, gravity has already provided the rider with an automatic lean angle as he/she rolls off the throttle and needs to handle the front just like one does after reaching the apex on a road. Just my never so humble opinion.  |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 04:24 pm: |
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Newfie...Why do I get the feeling you will have better luck smuggling in the Screech than I will with Ice Cubes. LOL |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 05:18 pm: |
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"The same way it would if one were in a corner? "
Yes... But not the same way it would go if one were initiating a corner  . |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:46 pm: |
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http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_pace/ good (brief) article about "the pace"
This months Cycle world has a review of Park's book, and they comment that pulling & pushing was a better method of control than pushing one bar. I also noticed, while sitting on a RC-51 that while hanging off, pushing on the downside clip on was awkward. I still have questions about Rocket's meaning, but I regret not being able to try out his Duck. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 09:48 pm: |
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Rocket means simply this. You cannot push the inside bar on a 916 whilst you are leant over in a corner. It is physically impossible to do it with any form of control. At best, you simply upset the steering because you have to try very hard to fight against the force offered at the inside bar by using your arm to push against it. Pulling the outside bar is easy as pulling a knife through butter.
Rocket also believes one turns into a corner initially in the direction of the corner.
Rocket |
Tramp
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 10:13 pm: |
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  |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 03:56 am: |
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Neeeeowwww, yawn, are we on the last lap yet? |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 06:08 am: |
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Not yet Grumps! My mates 50th birthday bash is next month. Not to name drop, but Foggy, Whitam, Mick Grant and a few other talented Yorkshire and Lancashire lads are among our circle of friends. Guess what we'll be talking about
Rocket |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 08:52 am: |
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Hey Rocket! careful, bud, every time I've known a fella that starts refering to himself in teh third person, it's been a sign of impending pysichic crash! |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 04:10 am: |
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Witness Ricky Henderson! |
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