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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 07:53 am: | 
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Wow, it took me two days to catch up reading this thing.
People forget the DEALERS in this equation. The local BRAG clubs, which form the foundation of the National club, are only there at the discretion of the DEALER. If the dealer thinks it is to his benefit to have a separate BRAG club, they will "Sponsor" one. If not they will just tell the Buell riders to go to the HOG meetings, or in the worst case scenario do nothing at all.
If the Local BRAG club becomes a group bitch session every month between the dealer and the club members due to service issues, will they still sponsor the club? The club should NOT get involved in these issues, it's a recipie for disaster for the relationship between the club and their sponsor, the Dealer.
The Dealer has some things they want from the club members (participation/volunteering for Dealer events, rides, etc) and we as members want some things in return (a discount, a place to meet, free food, etc..). As long as the expectations are realistic between the two, it will be a good relationship. Getting involved in individual service Department issues between a member and the dealer is a bomb waiting to go off. I have avoided getting into that at all costs.
BRAG/HOG: BRAG is very tightly integrated into HOG now. It used not to be that way, but I think it makes sense to do it that way due to the many similarities in how the clubs are managed. BRAG membership cards are good at HOG events and vice versa. BRAG club directors are encouraged to attend the HOG Primary Officer Training Events. These are well worth attending, you get to network with people you will be meeting on your future rides/events and learn a lot about how to run/manage groups of people with wildly different interests/ideas.
(Message edited by josé_quiñones on September 04, 2004) |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 08:10 am: |
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While the managing side of HOG/BRAG is similar, there are some HUGE differences between how a HOG group likes to do things and BRAG group likes to do things.
Group rides: BRAG members "in general" based on MY experience, like to go a little faster, stay away from interstates or other straight roads, get a little competitive with each other, they don't mind reading maps, and actually don't mind getting lost as long as the roads are twisty and cool.
HOG group rides, based on MY EXPERIENCE, are more "mature", they go slower, they LOVE the straight roads, they aren't as good with directions, they don't like getting lost, so as long as the guy/gal up front knows where they are going it's good enough for them!
Large Buell Group rides at BRAG events went away a few years ago after a few accidents. I remember the Mid Atlantic BRAG rally in 2000. That group ride got pretty hairy with people passing each other and other stupid stunts going on. Amazingly nobody got hurt.
So now they just do the self guided riders which ends up being small groups most of the time going on the ride.
The only thing I don't like about this is that sometimes you end up riding with the same people the whole weekend and you never really meet everybody. The same 'clique' or group goes on all the rides together. You only see everybody else in the morning or the evening. I would like to ride with everybody at least once. |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 08:23 am: |
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The only rides I can remember that were anything close to a parade was the ride to the factory at the 20th and the ride from the factory to the town square this year.
I may have missed something.
Dave |
Gomo
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 08:43 am: |
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Jose,
I agree with alot you just said. Being a past Director of a HOG chapter and now a Director of a BRAG club (same dealer), there are a lot of differences in the two as well as a lot alike. Structure wise, they are they same, that may be the point of difference though.
I noticed that the HOG members (for the most part) acted as if I was an alien when I showed up for Chapter rides with my Buell (even as Director for the HOG Chapter). This made me pursue the Dealer to sponsor a BRAG Club, which they did with great support. Once I annouced that I would be not be the HOG Diretor for the following year and would be starting a BRAG Club; it was like I had become a traitor.
I am still a member of the HOG Chapter, I do enjoy some of the events (I won't call them rides, it seems each one has to be an all day event), but almost 10 months later I still get some dig comments (oh well - their the ones that may never understand).
Ride styles are definitely different, just as you stated, but since we are a new club; we are trying to find a way to get folks to come to meetings/rides on a more consistant basis. As stated, we are new with 15 members (most are Buell owners)and are approaching it as an alternative to the HOG Chapter - A Riding Club for all those who want to ride and not wait in line at the $4.95 buffet line.
I've been getting suggetions from other BRAG Directors and will try them out for next year. That's another thing, we do not hold the Officer status the same as the HOG Club. They have monthly meetings with the Officers in the front of the room addressing the members. We all just sit around and talk about rides and life, the Officer position in the BRAG club is for club management - it seems to work.
If any of you are planning on attending any of the Regional meetings, perhaps when you return you could start a thread of what you learned & discussed for those of us unable to attend. Thanks ahead of time. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 09:24 am: |
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One thing for sure. HOG and BRAG may be related but are as different as night and day. No need to belabor the issue, just consider the demographics and preferences and it is quite obvious.
I have the feeling that if all keep the regional meetings on topic, which is BRAG (Adventure) not Buell (Bikes), you will derive the most benefit in the long run.
Granted HOG is an older more established organization with a large membership base, but if all goes well with BRAG they will mature as well. It is all in the organization and planning.
I just received the Sep/Oct issue of Hog Tales and it lists dates and cities for 24 domestic and 5 international rally's for 2005. That makes my planning for next year a little easier, but realize that the work was done at the State/Regional level and just reported by HOG.
In essence, HOG started an organization, but it took the interest and involvement of the individual clubs to organize and plan future events. The same applies to BRAG.
For the moment, the best you can do is use this thread to voice your opinions and suggestions as DaveS requested. Take notes on what you like and don't like and take them to the meetings. Clear and concise communication will make Peggy's job a lot easier, which will provide you with a brighter future.
I hope this example provides some insight into the value of the upcoming Regional Meetings. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 09:35 am: |
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but since we are a new club; we are trying to find a way to get folks to come to meetings/rides on a more consistant basis
Good luck with that. The 2 chapters around here are extremely slow in bringing in new folks & when someone does come in they may only attend a meeting or 2, maybe 1 ride & then you never hear from them again. I still think one of the keys is to get people in the clubs to do non-biking events together, much as HOG members will have bowling parties & such. Its real hard to get to know the folks in your club if all you ever do is ride & never actually interact & talk with each other. Become actual friends & the club will then sustain itself. |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:20 am: |
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Become actual friends & the club will then sustain itself.
Wow, I actually totally agree and in my experience that's been true !!
CJ |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
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Becoming friends is what it's supposed to be all about.
In some groups it becomes more of a "we've been in the club for awhile members group" and a "new member group" thing. You need to avoid this at all costs if you want the club to grow.
You need to treat the new members as old friends right off the bat and involve them in everything if you want them to stick around long enough to become friends with you.
Most clubs of any kind have this problem.
What I have always tried to do is when new members come to a meeting or ride is kind of "buddy up" with them, it's easier for me because they probably bought the bike from me and already feel comfortable with me and I with them.
In many clubs there isn't a salesperson or dealership person that is active in the group. In these cases you need a club "old timer" to take those new people under their wing and make sure they are not EVER left sitting,standing,eating or riding on a club ride alone. Make them feel welcome, introduce them to others in the group.
The lack of this, I think is the biggest reason some clubs never grow.
Ride to the edge!
Dave |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:59 am: |
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Mike,
Next time you want to come up this way and bringing your wife, take a plane and you can borrow my car for the week.
As for BRAG I hope there an event either in Wisconsin or Deals Gap as I am gonna be there.
Next time an ice pack for the ••• when I finally stop. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 03:29 pm: |
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What Newfie you all outta Preperation H??? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 10:00 am: |
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Daves,
You'll have email shortly.
Parades:
There have been a few, the Homecoming based in Oconomowoc had one. Funny, I remember the start of it, I remember riding down hwy-16 in it, I don't remember where it ended (oops), maybe at the motor plant or Pilgrim road or someplace?????
Future Events:
What will be will be. It will be interesting to see if the newguy at Buell works to bridge the relationship between Buell and BRAG and Harley and HOG.
I had a short interesting discussion about Buell motorcycles with a non-rider recently. A real eye opener to get an outsider's viewpoint. The eye-opener wasn't necessarily new stuff either. |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 02:40 pm: |
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Was that 1999?
I missed that one, I had not been afflicted yet.
My first Homecoming was 2000.
Dave
(Message edited by daves on September 07, 2004) |
BadS1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 02:53 pm: |
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Dave don't remember ya there in 2000,did ya have short hair???LOL |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 02:55 pm: |
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No, not 1999. I got my M2 in August '99, and Oconomowoc was a year or two after that, maybe 2001? |
BadS1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 02:58 pm: |
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Your right Mike Oconomowoc was 2001. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 03:24 pm: |
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Mike -- while it would be interesting to see what affect the new guy at Buell might have on BRAG, my guess would be (at first, anyways) very little -- keep in mind that BRAG isn't really linked to the Buell folks in East Troy, but it's, organizationally, more likely part of HOG, or, at least, under that same management umbrella --
BRAG's role as a marketing device would be pretty low on my list of things to do if I was the new guy . . . . not dis-ing anyone/anything, just trying to be realistic |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 03:53 pm: |
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Okay, a philosophical question to ponder on a bit:
Is BRAG in existence as a post-sale owner/enthusiast organization, or is it a pre-sale operation as well defined as a marketing tool to attract non-owners into becoming owners? The regional meeting program statement indicating a desire to attract non-owners into becoming BRAG members might indicate that BRAG is attempting to become a pre-sales marketing tool designed to showcase the product and possibly define or take advantage of any indicative Buellish culture that may or may not in fact exist melding Buell owners into one loosely cohesive like-minded inter-identifiable membership group.
(I think I just lost myself in my thought string, it made perfect sense when it flashed across the inside of my eyelids)
HOG can exists as a separate entity from Harley motorcycles because of the "lifestyle" thing that both Harley-corporate and HOG promote and define their activities and products to fit into and to take advantage of. I personally don't see that as a possible tract for BRAG since there is no identifiable lifestyle for Buell owners since so many of us have abandoned the Buell product line yet still maintain connection somehow. A guy could probably do a whole ethnographic study on this, but since graduate school is currently outside of my reach it won't be me doing it.
Philosophically speaking, what is BRAG? What is BRAG trying to become? And what are the directives that the newguy at Buell has as his program emphasis? What are the newguy's 5-year plan for the Buell product line and manufacturing processes?
These questions and more may be revealed next week, same Bat time, same Bat channel. |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:20 pm: |
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I was at the 2000 Homecoming in Lake Lawn?
I remember BattleTrax at the East Troy High School?
Did I somehow miss the 2001?
It was based in Oconomowoc?
Heck , maybe I did miss it?
I am so confused? |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:24 pm: |
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Daves -- I was at Oconomowoc . . .. . I don't recall meeting you there (and I KNOW you'd woulda been working the room) -- track day at Blackhawk, no btrax that I remember
count on the state of confusion to increase as time passes
;-} |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:44 pm: |
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I remember a track day at Blackhawk that got rained out. What year was that?
Dave |
BadS1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:47 pm: |
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2001!!! |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 05:50 pm: |
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Did it get rained out 2 years in a row?
The year it got rained out on me was the same year the BattleTrax was at East Troy. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 06:45 pm: |
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Your right that was 2000.They had Battletrax at EastTroy High School. |
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