| Author | Message | ||
     Iamike |
Roger mentioned while we were in Newfoundland that Peggy had asked him why we will do a trip like that but not come on a BRAG event. 1) I don't like parades, I like to ride. 2) I like to ride in small groups 3) I don't really care to stand around and look at bikes, except before and after the ride. 4) I am a spontaneous person and generally stay away from organized events. 5) The little things are nice, I appreciated the pin we got at the unofficial 20th, Crusty's custom drain plug, Crusty's 'Rock' t-shirt, Mr.Grumpy's hat (man I'm really starting to feel bad now) 6) Did I mention that I like to ride I hope these comments are constructive and hope to make it to one of the meetings. I do appreciate Peggy's and Mary's efforts, they just have to fit in my schedule. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
1) I don't like parades, I like to ride. 2) I like to ride in small groups 3) I don't really care to stand around and look at bikes, except before and after the ride. 4) I am a spontaneous person and generally stay away from organized events. All great points. | ||
| Court |
Don't get me started on B.R.A.G. | ||
| Grndskpr |
Don't get me started on B.R.A.G. If your not part of the solution your part of the problem, not ment to be mean, but if you are unwilling to offer up help in fixing BRAG how could you expect it to improve??? | ||
| Grndskpr |
1) I don't like parades, I like to ride. Not much riding done in Newfoundland, so was it the ride there???? and the fun while we were there??? 3) I don't really care to stand around and look at bikes, except before and after the ride I agree, but again is it the ride to the events or??? And do you prefer guilded or self guilded Everything is cunstuctive, and i am trying to type what i mean with out being a jerk, but sometimes the words dont come out right, i realy would like to improve brag, i really dont know how to do it correctly or even how to do it, i mean all the points mentioned are very true of what i do, but how to incorporate these items in a Club is tuff, i really have had a great time at the events i have been at, maybe Court could let us know how it was in the days prior to BRAG, and what needs to happen to improve the club Plus i would like to know what it takes to bring in more of the firebolt/XB group of riders?? R | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Maybe some more NON-Bike Events while at these gatherings??? You know after I rode 10,000,000 miles to get to the 20th last summer I really didn't want to ride much around Milwaukee. Sitting, relaxing and chatting to friends was a good time. Maybe thats the way to go!!!!! Just make sure it don't go the way of HOG, Harley this, Harley that - some of those guys eat, sleep and breathe Harley Davidson. We have a life other than that????? Like Roger put it, I like smaller groups to travel with as well, spontaneous and go with no plans that way your on your own timetable and with a smaller group its much more possible. | ||
| Daves |
Well no club will ever make everyone happy. It's all about meeting somewhere in the middle ground. The BRAG rallies I have been to have been a great time! For me it's more about meeting people in person I would otherwise not have the chance to. The ride to the rally and back is a part of it for me also. There is just something special about doing a road trip on a Buell! To make the rallies fit into everyones schedule they would have to do about 100 rallies per year and that, of course cannot be done. I have missed out on lots of Buell/BRAG rallies that I would have loved to have gone to. I just can't do them all or I would. I think the regional rallies are a great idea! Sure, things could always be better and that's what the upcoming meetings are all about and I think it's great that BRAG is interested in our opinions! Are they going to be able to implement every idea? No. Will it offer the chance to get some great ideas to improve the future of BRAG? You bet! Dave | ||
| Newfie_buell |
You have to appeal to the many!!!! | ||
| Daves |
Exactly! Dave | ||
| Gravedigger |
Noticed that Brag has planned its riding events more towards the eastern and western coasts the last couple years. I know they are doing Deals Gap area again this year. But this was done in 2001 (national) and 2002 (regional). How about coming up with a riding event for us people in the central states besides deals gap? | ||
| Outrider |
How about an extra cost option added to the Rider Assistance Program to support long range riding to the events and touring in general in the event of a catastrophic break down. Simply either a one way freight program to ship your bike from the break down point to your home local dealer, or...round trip air fare so you can fly home, work and then fly back to ride (or haul)your bike home when repairs are completed. Jprovo would have benefited from this during the 20th and Dullorb on the recent NewFie Trip. If catastrophic failures are so rare, then the cost of the optional plan shouldn't be that much if enough folks enroll in it. Just a suggestion... | ||
| Bomber |
I'll likely be at the Sauk Prairie event -- like most here, I have some ideas that would make BRAG more drawing to me, and they've been nice enough to ask, so I'll answer I won't jump down Peggy's throat over things she can't control (like the Buell/BRAG interface, or other corporate silliness), but will put in my 2 cents . . . . although I agree about the extreme variability of chapter personalities (for lack of a better term), but that is also not something that a national level organization can do much about I'm pleased that BRAG/Peggy is making the effort, and I'll respond in kind I do have a question, though -- although not initmately familiar with Wlater Bros or the Ohio dealership, if memory serves me, none of the three dealerships in the invitation are known as BRAG chapter powerhouses -- I wonder what the selection criteria were for picking the dealerships . . . . . . doesn't matter (to me, in any event), just curious | ||
| Mikej |
"I saved some pieces." Classic reply, thanks for the smile. Have a nice weekend Daves. ===== On the Ride vs hang-out concept, sometimes the journey is more the focus than the destination even though the destination is the reason for the journey and even though the destination is worth the journey sometimes the journey is still the real reason something is done. If she can't understand why someone would ride from Chicago to Newfoundland but not go to a BRAG event, then perhaps she needs to ride to Newfoundland to find out why. Some folks are talking about riding out to some races in California next summer. If I had the time and inclination it might be something I'd consider doing. But given the choice I'd rather just ride out there without having the races as a destination. In fact if I did ride out there with some people to go to the races I'd probably diagonal off and continue riding while they attended the races. I don't know who coined the statement originally but it fits in this case: "if I have to explain then you wouldn't understand". Some things you simply have to do and then be willing to accept the understanding as it awakens within you. I'm afraid that if she want's to separate the topic of "bikes" from the concept of "BRAG" then I'm afraid she'll be very disatisfied with the net results of her efforts. Let's put this in a different light to attempt an understanding for her - scale model trains and train layouts. Anybody can join the club, subscribe to the magazines, even if they don't own a model train and even if they've never built a scaled down fully researched layout. Some members of the train community are only interested in layouts, the details, the construction, the problem solving, the research. Some members are only interested in the trains, the details, the construction, the problem solving, the research. Some members only like to watch. Some collect items. Some like the full scale trains but get into the scale model stuff because it's more practical to own an HO model than it is the real full size thing. And some just go to socialize because they've developed an appreciation for train people. And train people cover the whole range of folks from wealthy to dirt poor, from quiet and reclusive to flamboyant and extravagant, from individual who dislike the public eye, to politicians and performers who seek out the public's eye at any opportunity. Gee, sort of like the general motorcycling community if you think about it. And how do the event orgainzers get people to attend the big events? They advertise and offer up things that train people want to see. So how can this "train people" discourse apply to BRAG. For starters you can't please everyone, so don't try to, one event can not be the end all for everyone, but one event can be broadened to accomodate the interests of a wider audience. Vendors: HOG rallies and the local Milwaukee Ralley and even the 100th Anniversary are sometimes run as though they are nothing but a traveling flea market and mobile shopping mall. Some people like that, but for me after about the ninth leather shop and eighth boot shop and 14th stitchery shop sewing on patches, and 97th giggle patch reading I begin to get a little bored and decide that if I was going to be doing this much window shopping I'd be better off at an air-conditioned mall than trapseing around in a muddy field dodging drunks. Of course the mall won't have quite the range of folks that you often find at a biker rally, so for people watching malls and rallys are equal but different. The best BRAG rally I attended had several vendors in attendance with a large amount of Buell merchandise. Tat was dragging around his heavily loaded lightweight enclosed trailer to each day's activity center, Mel was selling and smiling like she always did, business was good or at least appeared to be. I don't know how the latest Lake Lawn event was compared to the first Lake Lawn event since I only went to Uke's one morning and never made it to the resort, but if you talk to people who went to all the events at both you might get some answers to what was different if anything. I recall the first Lake Lawn event had activities at Hal's, Ukes, Sauk, S&S, RoadAmerica, EastTroy/Buell. I believe the last LakeLawn event had similar venues. Were they the same, or completely different? Perhaps it is just me but somehow they seem to be different. I don't know how the attendance numbers compare between LakeLawn1 and LakeLawn2, but that would be interesting to know. Activities: You can't please everyone but you have to try to accomodate most of them. Some folks B'Trax, some don't, some just like to watch. Some folks like guided rides, some don't. Some like parades and large group rides, some don't and won't ride with more that 3 or maybe four riders in a pack. Some never exceed the speed limit, some never go below the speed limit on rides. Some stop at each stop sign individually, some pretend there is an umbilical cord attached between bikes and will play the train through every intersection. Some love BBQ, some hate it. Some drink themselves into oblivion each evening, some don't drink at all, and some just like to watch the show. Some dance, some don't, some sing, some don't, some shouldn't. Some folks play musical instruments, some don't, and some folks should have a little more tolerance for other people's tastes in music. Some go to titty bars, some won't. The list goes on and on. All I can say is to see what was done in the past and try to define why it did or didn't work. And as Anthropologists are trained to know, if you're too close to a situation then perhaps you won't be able to really see what there is to see or discern. Scheduling: Some people need to know their yearly vacation plans before the end of January due to work requirements. The actual logistics don't have to be locked in, but the dates do. The earlier you can lock in a date the better chance you have at increasing attendance. And since there are other activities being planned the last thing you want to happen is for someone else to plan an event that time-conflicts with the BRAG event if both events will be drawing from the same general attendee pool of people. This year's event did not work out for me for a variety of reasons. If I go to some event at RoadAmerica it will be for that event, not because BRAG is there (see, I said BRAG not Buell  ). And if I don't want to go to the races then I don't want to be required to pay for them, and I absolutely don't need anyone to explain to me why the cost of the attendance ticket is still a good deal even if I don't go to the races. I can do my own math thank you very much, and if I'm going to be paying over $20 per person for a dinner I damn well don't want to be slapping mosquitos while I cut the meat. If BRAG wants me back as a paying member then they have to can the BS politics and not put me inside a parentheses (HOG tails article reference there in case you missed it). And if Peggy or anyone else wants to really promote BRAG then they have to do one of two things. One: move away from HOG and closer to Buell. Or two: work on improving the mutually respectfull relationship between all four factions (Buell, BRAG, Harley-Davidson, HOG). The 100th Anniversary deal left somewhat of a bitter taste in the mouth of many Buell owners for several reasons, and apparently the trend continues. Granted the Buell community does not have the mass numbers of potential participants that the Harley community does, but regardless of the numbers of people they still deserve to be shown some respect and consideration. Some little kid's 5cent lemonaid stand on a neighborhood corner is just as important to that little kid as Harley-Davidson is to WillieG, some people forget that simple little fact. I ain't no 3%er, I'm just a rider who likes to ride, and if someone wants my attendance then simply show me some respect and offer me something I'm willing to attend for in a timeframe I can accomodate for a price I'm willing to pay, otherwise I'll stay home and mow the lawn or to just go for a ride on my own. YMMV. (Craig, I found another bucket full of words.)  | ||
| Grndskpr |
How about an extra cost option added to the Rider Assistance Program to support long range riding to the events and touring in general in the event of a catastrophic break down Isnt there some kind of coverage similar to this if you by the HD long term warrenty??? Bomber i to was wondering why these dealerships were picked also, not to concerned but wondering, i mean Sauk did get a perk from the 20th, so why the meeting there also, Here is a question, what could BRAG offer that you couldnt get elsewhere, ie sevral people have towing with there insurance or AAA, so why have it with BRAG, whats so special about the brag tow, or should it be droped in favor of?????? Again, just tossing ideas out, i am kinda afraid that when i get there i will have little to say since in the past most of my ideas sourounded the bikes, not the club R | ||
| Bomber |
it's important to remember that BRAG is attempting to serve two masters -- In reverse order of importance (to BRAG): the membership, whose desires are multifaceted, varied, changing, and colored, perhaps, by bad experiences with other arms of the HDI octopus and, of course, HDI, whose desire is singular, focused, and overriding -- they want to sell bikes This is, of course, and identical situation vis a vis HOG -- having been a corporate guerrilla fighter most of my life, I can promise you that the minute HDI decides that HOG or BRAG are not helping to generate more revenue than they cost, the programs will be ended (with the caveat that BRAG may still be in the investment mode, and could be for some, unknown to me, time) when you put the world into that perspective, and couple that knowledgfe with the data that Peggy is not her own boss, but answers to others, it becomes easier, I think, to frame answers to their questions . . . . | ||
| Mikej |
"I won't jump down Peggy's throat over things she can't control (like the Buell/BRAG interface, or other corporate silliness), but will put in my 2 cents . . . . " In case it came across different in what I blasted out above, then read Bomber's comment and add my "ditto" and ignore anything you want to take to task with what I wrote above. Bomber, Sauk has been involved with many of the BRAG events, and has in the past had a very active chapter of Buell enthusiasts and (I believe) sponsored racers. Even Charlotte was taken to task for thinking once that Madison as well didn't have a Buell presence and was made aware that even though they don't hang out in the virtual community much that they are in fact in existence. I don't know the reason for picking Sauk as a meetng place, but do believe perhaps it is because of numbers there that we on the site here don't see or know of. Sauk is also somewhat central to several semi-major hubs of Buell activity, tie a string on some pins on a map with pins at Appleton, several cities in Iowa, St.Paul/Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Kenosha, Tomahawk, you may find Sauk fairly well centered to accomodate them. Or not, I don't have any strings or pins handy. Besides I think I'm almost out of words for the morning.  | ||
| Outrider |
The Rider Assistance Program is the same for HOG as it is for BRAG only the fellow I spoke to at BRAG didn't know his product which is why I switched my membership to HOG. Quite simply, HOG could answer my questions. The Rider Assistance Ultra Package is loosely defined and sounds more like Hotel and Meal reimbursement than either shuttling you home and back for a mult-day/multi-week repair or shipping your bike home to service centers you know and trust. Remember, only a percentage of HD dealers can or will repair a Buell. Wording of the Ultra package (from the HOG Website) is as follows: If your covered motorcycle is disabled as a result of a mechanical breakdown of a warranty-covered component (still under the original or extended warranty plan) or the covered motorcycle is involved in a disabling collision, and is 100 miles or more away from your residence, and the repair is delayed overnight due to the unavailability of required parts – you may qualify for travel expense reimbursement up to the $1,000 maximum. Ask for full details when you sign up with Road America. Certain restrictions and/or exclusions apply. You have to really appreciate the last two sentences. ASK = We will only tell after we get you just a "little bit pregnant." Certain restrictions = We aren't telling you until you actually have a problem and then we are going to surprise you with the facts of life. Incidentally, the only reason I belong to HOG is the Rider Assistance Program. As with BRAG, I like the people I meet, I just don't care for feeling like I am lost in the Rank'n'File. Reminds me too much of being in the Military, where all you could do is make the best of a bad situation. | ||
| Xb9er |
Although I have been a BRAG member since I bought a Firebolt in August 2002, the upcoming "Running the Ridge" adventure will be my first ever BRAG event.
I don't envy anyone trying to run BRAG. The local BRAG clubs are the key to enjoying our Buells. Just ride often, communicate continuously, and meet occasionally. I can't really see driving up to Bedford Heights from Columbus (~5 hr roundtrip?) for the 3.5 hour regional meeting. Any chance of videoconferencing in? Mike. | ||
| Bomber |
MikeJ -- didn't think you were slamming anyone, bud -- just my 2 cents, as always -- as for Sauk, you are very likely right about the centralist nature of the location . . . they may have a huge BRAG contingent which isn't wire-up as tight as other groups (hadn't considered that) . . . Mike(not J) -- costs of those mailing not as high as you might think (having been in that business), but good point -- perhaps a box on the memberhsip form, I prefer to received info electronically (although managing that effort would be labor intensive = costly, as well) Just ride often, communicate continuously, and meet occasionally. amen, sir, well put, indeed! | ||
| 99buellx1 |
 man Mike, where do you find all them words? | ||
| 99buellx1 |
p.s. My invitation has not arrived yet. Nor the stores (or so they tell me). Craig | ||
| Mikej |
(I just look at the keyboard, close my eyes, and pretend I'm playing the piano. Since I don't know how to play the piano I just hope something readable results occasionally.)  | ||
| Outrider |
Dang, it gives me a migrane trying to read that little white type on a light gray background. Those that do it ought to be turned into the SPCA!!!  That's the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Best describes Bueller's on a Rant) for the benefit of those who don't know. | ||
| Mikej |
(Sorry Bill.) (I think I'll go get out of range now.He's got a Miyata and knows how to use it.) | ||
| Daves |
MikeJ Call me, I may have just traded for a project bike for you. Dave 1-866-757-1651 | ||
| Gearhead |
Sorry all, When I started this thread I didn't realize what a can of worms I was about to open. The meetings will be an opportunity to get these ideas to the people who can do something about it. I've been pretty happy with our BRAG group and events I've been involved with on the local and regional level so this has been a real eye opener to me. Keep it positive, keep it constructive, your comments and ideas WILL be shared. | ||
| Gomo |
How about we all send BUELL/BRAG a note stating that they should have either a message board set up like this on their website for Buell owners/BRAG members to post comments or suggestions. If not, at least have an email address where we can send comments/suggestions about BUELL/BRAG. You maybe lucky if 5-10% of what is written here gets back to those that it was intended for. Just a thought  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Gomo...I think you would be very suprised to find out just who at both HD & Buell keep up with these boards. | ||
| Gomo |
I hope they read and listen - to both the good and bad. I would gladly go to a regional meeting (I'm assumming that my mail is later than others -it usally is), but getting the info with a 4 week (or less) notice, I can not change my prior plans for the weekend which is closest to me. *Just another note - Great Idea for a regional meeting, how about more of a notice.  | ||
| Iamike |
Roger-ditto Newfie, After travelling about 3,000mi. to get there I wanted to ride but then it was great to sit around and BS a little too. I decided that I'm going to have to bring the wife up there and travel and enjoy the province a little more. Once is not enough. Of the two Brag events in Delavan/Milwaukee that I have been to and the partial one last year, I enjoyed them all. I just didn't care much for the parades. |
