| Author | Message | ||
     Buellistic |
Tim(AKA Lago888): Get the motors manual and parts book for your YEAR and MODEL... Learn to be a BUELL MECHANIC (not a technician)... How cold is where you live and are you running 20W50 engine oil??? In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Lago888 |
thanks, shortly after buying the BUELL (and at the local Harley shop's suggestion) I bought an Owner's Manual, Parts Catalog & Service Manual, for my '98 White Lightning. I've been riding a long time, but am a very short term on an American motorcycle. ref: motor oil, running Mobil 1, 20 - 50W, the climate in Beijing is similar to Western New York, hot summers & very cold winters | ||
| Blake |
Sounds like you could have overfilled the oil tank. Only check and fill/top-off the oil when the engine is still warm and immediately after shutting it down. Some oil from the tank will drain into the crankcase, though it is not supposed to. Best to leave the oil no more than midway between the low and full marks too. You certainly cannot just switch/interchange lines on the tank and expect all to run normally. | ||
| Lago888 |
actually, when attempting to get the bike running (before I bought the American Sport Bike aluminum oil tank & braided steel oil line kit), I took the fitting from the oil tank drain line, but never did I switch or interchange any oil lines | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
If I were you I'd study the venting arrangement in your shop manual. From memory the shop manual has a good diagram of this. I'd then check out all the vent lines and make sure none of them are pinched or connected incorrectly. Blake is correct, overfilling the tank is the first place I'd look for blowing the top off the tank, but this is usually followed by the excess oil running out of the tank and making a big mess. You didn't say that oil had flowed out of the top of the tank. From memory the engine vents from both heads and the camchest. The vent from the camchest IIRC, goes under the starter motor and up to the top of the oil tank. The two head vents go into the rear of the air filter box. If you have an after market filter take a look where these go, I have seen the two vents simply connected to each other thus causing pressure in the engine that could only escape through the camchest vent. That caused venting problems from the tank. Often with an aftermarket filter fitted the two head vents are run into a simple vented catch tank, mine is like this. There is another vent on the top of the gearbox but this shouldn't be bothering you. Hope this helps. Steve steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Lgpch |
Socal No that tubing is braided. I use braided line wherever possible. It is chafe resistant and looks nice. The only clear tubing on the bike is the vent tube running from the gas tank, and the connecting tubing from the rear brake fluid container to the brake piston assembly. Later, Paul | ||
| Knickers |
Those of you with the XB breather mod on tube frame bikes may want to make a quick check so you don't get a oil/spooge shower. When I first did the rear cylinder PCV valve install I had to file the plastic down significantly to get it to clear the tank. Apparently not enough though. The tank made contact with the valve which then forced the valve into contact with the aluminum rocker cover. 1500 miles of vibrating v twin later and the valve wore through. There was quite a bit of wear on the fuel tank as well where it contacted the valve. I filled the split with epoxy as a temporary fix. Now I need to investigate shimming fuel tank to raise it as high as possible to prevent further contact. | ||
| Buellistic |
Kurt: Put a PN2871Y WASHER or equivelent at the rear gas tank mount... This should rise up the rear of the gas tank enough so nothing rubs... "PROVIDED" you placed the rear rocker covr XB PVC valve far enough forward... Have done mine this way and have had no problems... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Knickers |
I put two 5/16" fender washers under the rear tank mount. Not sure I understand what you mean by placing the valve "far enough forward". Do you mean pointing the outlet forward? Mine is currently pointed to the rear. | ||
| Bluelightning |
Kinickers, Buellistic drilled his stock covers and installed the pcv valves. He is not actually using the XB cover. See his above posts for what he did. Karl | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: If you'll want to HOW & WHY of my BREATHER UP-DATE, feel free to ask!!! My home PHONE is (813)661-2664 EST... E-MAIL address ljenne73c@verizon.net ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Buellistic |
There were two pictures of the XB BREATHERS that "i" installed posted here, where did they "GO"??? | ||
| Buellistic |
FOUND THEM!!! Archive July 20, 2004, ie: 6 July 10:45PM... | ||
| Jammer |
Hey, I've been lurking here and i'm curious. Wouldn't a product like the Spyke Krank vent serve the same purpose and at a cheaper cost? | ||
| Henrik |
The only thing the Krank Vent (search the KV) will relieve is your wallet  Henrik | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: Lets cut the chase!!! Want to run a BREATHER for your timeing plug hole??? Here is what you do... Run the PVC valve from a CHEV Sprint Metro... ONE BIGIE you will get is if that if you put too much oil in the oil tank it will puke out the timing plug breather until the engine likes the correct oil level... This is old TECH., been running one for years... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Rick_a |
I put XB breathers on my S1. I did it mainly to get rid of the goofy S&S fittings I had that always leaked. I still had oil carryover problems when over the ton for extended periods. I think the only real solution is a 4-stage oil pump. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Rick, Is the carryover you refer to after you put the XB cover in place? | ||
| Buellistic |
Bluzm2: Check out the XB breathers on my BUELL!!! See ARCHIVE July 20,2004... ie:Posted on Tuesday 6 Juty 10:45PM... Have questions: ljenne73c@verizon.net ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Bluzm2 |
LaFayette, I have them on both of mine, made a huge difference for me. I was just wondering about Rick's comment. | ||
| Rick_a |
I don't have the XB covers...I just holed the stock covers in similar fasion to LaFayette. I've found that either configuration will result in major oil pukage when "topped out" (redlined in top gear) for several minutes. Under normal use, even redlined for short periods, I got nothing but the usual condensation out of either setup. I like having the breather valves externally...that's the only real plus I see in it...other than getting rid of those ugly fittings. | ||
| Country  |
I just bought a billeted catch can top and clear bottle for the breather. Any suggestions on how to mount this to the frame????  (Don't have the camera with me today, so I "borrowed" the pic from the eBay item I won.) | ||
| Djkaplan  |
I placed my catch can behind my seat base on the left side. I used lots of zip ties so it looks factory! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Check this Italian Buells catch-can...  | ||
| Gibby55 |
....and that little nipple sticking out of crankcase/transmission area (right behind starter motor) is?....... duh | ||
| Italialaw |
Hey all, I own a 98 Thunderbolt. I took off the breather bolts this evening: front cylinder breather fitting had black crap (looked like oil) and the rear cylinder breather fitting had gas on it (very little though). Prior to putting the bike away for the winter my buddy commented on how he could smell gas coming form my exhaust when he was behind me. Based on all the above info., could you say I was running a little rich? Bike mods.: D&D show n go chrome pipe, cv 48 slow, 190 main, 2 3/4 turn on the idle mixture screw, s&s air cleaner with K&N air filter | ||
| Blake |
A little oil mist escaping out the breathers is not uncommon. There are some things you can do to improve that behavior though. XB rockerboxes may be the optimum solution. Applying a bit of bevel to the passage of the umbrella valves as described within the archives of this topic is another. Synthetic oil should help avoid so much oil mist as well. Answered your carburetor question over on the Carburetion topic.  | ||
| Blake |
Also see notes at top of page. | ||
| Djkaplan |
The latest iteration of my catch can and breather system for my 2000 M2. I drilled a hole in the top and bottom of a large fuel filter to install a small K&N type filter and drain. I pulled the original fuel filter media out with some needle-nose pliers through the hole in the top - the paper filter media will clog pretty easily with oil so it has to be removed. The yellow thingie is a plastic pot scrubber I shoved in to act as an air/oil separator. Since I already had the small K&N (it came with the Forcewinder) and pot scrubber (my girlfriend's actually) the total cost was just for the fuel filter and vacuum fitting I used as the drain - less than $5 (plus tax!)  Here's how I ran the hoses coming out of the engine. My first attempt at this had them running up and over the engine. I never had a problem with this, but I can definitely see the merits of using gravity to your advantage, so I changed the hose routing to run down throughout it's entire length. I will eventually upgrade to PCV valves in the rocker covers, but this works fine for now - plus, I already had the hoses, so it was free.  The hoses cross over to the left side of the bike in front of the battery.  I mounted the assembled catch can to the frame in the empty space underneath my seatbase/sidecover. I used lots of black zip ties, so it looks like it came from the factory circa 20th Century.  Fits good with the bodywork on!  I used a rubber vacuum cap I found in my magic fastener box to seal the drain. I try and empty it after every ride, but it holds so much spooge, I find myself going weeks before I check it again. | ||
| Ara |
DJ, I admire the fact that you can visually check the contents. Very inventive! | ||
| Jackbequick |
As a new guy with an almost new older M2, I might be the only guy around that had not already fixed the breather problem. The KV articles were great, I came up with slightly different throw away filter that is easy to check, cheap to replace, and that can be used with the stock airbox or probably also with an after-market aircleaner. I'll post a link to the description and some photos: http://users.adelphia.net/~jackerbes/Buell/breather.html As a new Bueller I may have missed something obvious here. Any help is appreciated. Jack | ||
| Ara |
Jack, It appears that the hoses go up from the breather fittings on the engine. I'm curious as to how much fluid is trapped in the fittings and the uphill sections of the hoses. Would you mind checking and post the results? Since fluids don't flow uphill readily, the consensus here has always been that it is preferable for the hoses to always point down. You could shed some light on this rather easily. Russ | ||
| Jackbequick |
I gave some thought to buildup and draining. The stock system and some of the other aftermarket systems are not all downhill could allow similar accumulations so I went with a route that seemed easy to do. Getting a downhill run from the front cylinder was not going to be easy with the stock air box. I haven't pulled the fittings yet, but I watch at start up after it has been setting and have not seem any obvious discharge of built up oil. And I was thinking that the oil that collects and gets pushed out or drains back is not going to hurt anything either way. There is room for oil to collect in the banjo bolts just by the way they are made. I expect to see some drainage there when I remove them. I feel a slight pulsing or "suck and blow" at the vent end of the tube, nothing visible yet. At any rate, I'll run it some more and then pull the back cylinder bolt to see what is there and follow up with a post here. I don't like that air box but I intend to live with it for now. Ugly is one thing but that is also a bit of a contraption to get put back together. I'm running Mobil 1 so if there are any leaks or seepage points, it won't take long to see them. Jack | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Jack, You really need to have the hoses routed down. Because of the way the umbrella valve works inside of the rocker covers, the fluid cannot drain back into the head. You will get fluid build up in the hoses. It isn't necessarly oil, but condensation from oil and water vapor. It will build up for a while and then "burp". Take a look in the KV or in the service manual. It shows very clearly the internal venting of the motor. Brad | ||
| Jackbequick |
I read Ara and Bluzm2's posts and went for a ride. About 100 miles with about half of it at a steady 60-70 MPH. Then I let it cool for about 30 minutes. I pulled the back breather bolt and no oil ran out. The interior of the fitting was lightly coated and there was a drop or so in the banjo where it surrounded the breather bolt. I leaned the bike over for about a minute (probably as far over as it has been with my riding style) and still nothing. I pulled the air cover and could see some oil film around the hose and fitting and on the back plate below the breather fitting. I think I was overly optimistic about not needing a clamp there. Between the sub-micron finish on the hose fitting and the generally sneaky nature of Mobil 1, a little was seeping out in there. I pulled the front breather bolt, nothing ran out, I leaned the bike over for a minute and nothing more materialized. The heavy teflon tape had sealed both of the bolts well, and it was easy to pick out/off and replace. I put it all back together with new Teflon tape and gaskets and put a hose clamp on the front hose. I'll watch it all for a while and see how it goes. My service manual (#99491-00Y), para 3.11 and Figure 3-53, are what lead me to think the up and over routing would work. I don't believe the first part of the statement "The oil mist separates from the crankcase air, collects and passes through a small drain hole (2) where it eventually returns to the crankcase." But the rest of it seems credible and lead me to give it a try. I expect some oil film will condense inside the hoses and fittings but it should not be too much and that it would either drain back or out or get pushed out by the air pulses. At any rate, this looks like it is working okay so I'm going to use it for a while longer. I'll start pulling the air box cover every once in a while to check for leaks in there. Jack | ||
| Ara |
Jack, Thanks for checking and posting your results. Interesting, to say the least. Russ | ||
| Bomber |
Jack -- the uphill routing won't be a problem until it is one, if you follow -- it can (and likely will) lead to the spooge never getting to your filter, and then, once the line is full of spooge (a matter of time, in my experience) it'll build pressure behind the spooge til "POOF" it blows it all to the filter, which may clog PDQ . . .. you can get all downhill routing by going better the cyliners though, and I'd recommend doing so | ||
| Jackbequick |
I appreciate the inputs, and am going to keep an eye on this. I will probably get rid of the air box eventually and when I do that will let me go to the downhill routing more easily. I'm wondering if the oil drain holes near the umbrella valves tend to plug up in time and that is when the oil puking and spooge problem emerges. Jack | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Jack, Not much problem with plugging usually. However, they are a bit small. If you remember from your KV readings, one of the rockerbox mods is to drill out the drain hole to 1/8" and chamfer the umbrella valve seat. The 1/8" hole helps reduce spooge. The best solution is the KB rocker box covers. Good luck! Brad | ||
| Jackbequick |
"If you remember from your KV readings..." I had not dug into all the details on those mods yet, but I did note that leaking gaskets on the covers is one the classic issues. There is a very light seepage on the rear cover now, that will be one of the projects for this winter and I'll do the drill work then. Jack | ||
| Bomber |
Jack -- if it's seeping now, may I gently suggest you get the gasket set, like now, and be prepared? they can go from Seeping to Exxon Buell in no time flat -- not always, mind you, and, Karmically speaking, having the gaskets in your garage will likely stave off the increased leaking btw, make sure the set you get are the newer metal ones -- the old ones should be purged from the system by now, but there may be a few lurking in the back of the shop -- ya don't want em | ||
| Jackbequick |
Good advice and thanks for the details on the gaskets. Those gaskets are in local stock if I need them quickly. I'm getting a list together and am going to order up what I need for the stuff I plan to do this winter. I'll use one of the sponsor's here and get it all at once if I can. Another thing near the top of the list of To Do's is to check the wear pattern on my oil pump gear. Jack | ||
| Captainkirk |
Jack; Add to your "to do" list, if not already done; If your Showa rear shock has not been upgraded to the new style(with attached canister), do it. It WILL leak. If your front muffler mount has not been upgraded, replace it before it goes and trashes the muffler attach bracket with it. What Bomber said about the rocker box gaskets Make sure the cam chain tensioner is the new style. | ||
| Ara |
Captainkirk, I've got a '97 S3 with the original exposed spring rear shock and no sign of any leakage. The company replaced those because *one" failed at a facory demo in an embarassingly public way. Most are good units, from what I understand, and have the advantage of being rebuildable. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Jack, I've been down the same route you went on your breather. The filter media you used will clog when it becomes saturated with oil and will not let air flow past it. The paper used to filter gasoline is not appropriate for filtering air once it's been soaked in oil. You'll see. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Dan, Thanks for the input on this. Testing has continued. I've now had the breathers set up as shown in the photos and described above, and with the original filter in place, for about 1,600 miles now. The the majority of that mileage was accumlated at highway speeds (45-65 MPH). I have an hour or so of 80 MPH Interstate time. The breather is still working fine. I feel the same slight pulsing at the outlet end if I put my finger over it with the engine idling. The filter now has about 1/16" (1.5mm) of oil accumulated in it. No oil is leaking or dripping from the discharge tube (down by the foot peg), there is a film of oil on the interior of the hose. I removed the stock M2 "bread box" to install an AFT aluminum billet air cleaner today and I found the interior of the bread box free of oil. In the course of the air filter install I pulled and checked both of the bango bolts to see if there was any oil built up in the lines. I had ridden the bike earlier today (15 +/- miles) and it was still warm to the touch. Both banjo bolts had 2-3 drops of oil in them, this was the amount of oil that would accumlate in the low spot around the interior of the banjo. No oil ran or dripped from the breather outlets or tubing when I pulled the banjo bolts. I replaced the teflon tape on the banjo bolts and put them back. I thinking unless something changes remarkably in the future, this breather system is a permanent change for me. It is working great. After reading your post, I just went out and pulled the filter and blew through it. There is no restriction on air flow. I have another new filter and I blew on that as a comparison. If there is any restriction in the oil saturated one that has been in use since July and the new, unused filter, it is very very little. My conclusion is that the up and over breather routing works okay and that using a gas filter as a catch can works okay. Anyone know anything about the AFT (Atomized Fuel Technology?) aluminum billet filters? I can't seem to find them on the web. Good looking unit! Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
"...using a gas filter as a catch can works okay." You'll see. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Okay, and I'll post here to let everyone know as soon as it happens. Were you the only person that happened to? And were you using petroleum based on synthetic oil? I wondering if there may be some difference in the filters or lubes we used. At about $5 each I'll probably throw new one on once a year or so. Jack | ||
| Mike_r |
I have a 2000 Blast with 600 miles, the breather on the rocker box is pumping so much oil back into the carb that it smokes tremendously and fills the air box up with so much oil that it runs out and blows all down the side of the bike. It only does this when ridden, idles without any problems. The bike has been taken apart, there aren't any kinks in the oil lines, no obstructions in rocker box, and head. Not sure what else to do, very frustrating! | ||
| Buellistic |
Mike_r: This happens on the TUBE FRAME BUELLs when the HARLEY-DAVIDSON TECHNICIAN or a owner does not read the HANDBOOK and puts "TOO MUCH OIL IN THE OIL TANK" ... THIS CAN ALSO HAPPEN TO A "BLAST" ... YOU MUST ONLY CHECK THE OIL AFTER A RIDE WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING AT IDLE AND ON THE SIDE STAND !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Jprovo |
Mike, Take LaFayette's advice and check for overfilled oil. Also re-route the breather so it is out of the airbox, or at the least take the T in the breeather line that faces the carb inlet and face it down or away from the carb inlet. There is a lot of info on breather hose-routing in the Thumper Forum. BTW, make sure that the oil is coming from the aibox and not a leaky rockerbox gasket. James |
