| Author | Message | ||
     S1hooligan |
Yeah, I didn't have the camera out there when I went to put the new clutch in. Also didn't really plan on there being any issues. But the stock spring plate was toasted and there is a groove on the outer basket that I can tell is not stock. That is all I really know about it. I have never had this appart before,so I dont know how long that has been like it is. $300 is a lot, but worth it, if Im just going to keep going through clutches and what nots. | ||
| Firemanjim |
S1,post some pics and we can get a better idea of whether you need a new basket.I can even drag them down to my local dealer/racers and have them eyeball it. | ||
| Roc |
1996 S1 Service Manual 6-12 – primary drive inspection and repair – #7. Check the slots that mate with the clutch plates on both clutch shell and hub. If slots are worn or damaged replace the shell and/or hub. In thinking about it - if the gouge were wide enough to allow a plate to slide sideways and block the action of the clutch it could be a bad problem. A picture would still be helpful. | ||
| Mikeyp |
Need some info regarding clutch cables. I need to replace mine on my 98 S1W, and was wondering if stock Sportster cables are the same. I called my dealer, and he has a stock Sporty cable for $55. I thought that was kinda high. Any advice/info would be cool. | ||
| V2win |
MikeyP, The sportster cable is different than the Buell. An aftermarket clutch cable cost $16.95 for your Buell here in Saint Louis. Part # is D40666 in the "Fog Hollow" catalog. For what its worth. edited by v2win on April 20, 2004 | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Is there a way to get the clutch out without having to buy that compressor? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
You don't need the compressor if you are just pulling the clutch pack. Only if you need to get to the plates inside the pack.. | ||
| Spudman |
My clutch is fried so I need the tool (part # CC197026) for replacement. Best price I found on the net is at Cyborg Cycles, $52.95 plus shipping. I am not trying to support or endorse any company here (don't kill my message blake). Just want to pass on a good price for those who may need it. | ||
| Shotgun |
Spud, I think Roc has one you could borrow. | ||
| Spudman |
Yea shotgun, I thought about that, just didn't want to hassle Roc. Besides, I could use one for the tool collection  . Ordered a clutch kit from EnergyOne (BTX-11, $69.00 + shipping). I can post some pics of the install if anyones interested. Parts should be here next week sometime, will install next weekend. | ||
| Shotgun |
Show us buddy. I am in the middle of a belt/rear isolator change. Pain in the butt. Would go a lot easier with 2 people, that's for sure.6.5 hours into it. Hope to finish it tomorrow. | ||
| Spudman |
Due to the overwhelming encouragement (thanks shotgun) I will post a few pics of my clutch adventure. The tool and clutch kit arrived Wednesday, ordered them the previous Friday, not too bad. Tore the M2 up last night to remove the misbehaving clutch. The trouble I had been having was, clutch not completely disengaging, bike wanted to creep forward at stops with the clutch pulled in, yikes. And when I twisted the throttle hard while passing, the engine would rev up but the bike was slow to accelerate, massive clutch slip. I figured the clutch plates were fried or glazed really bad, time to replace. So off with the primary cover and in after the clutch I went. The tool from Cyborg Cycles fit perfectly and made compression of the spring diaphragm easy. Pic below shows the tool in place doing it's job.  The retaining ring holding the inner spring seat was easily removed with a screw driver allowing the spring diaphragm and pressure plate to be removed under the firm grasp of the tool. I started picking out the stack of friction and steel plates one at a time without too much problem until I came to the spring plate, which came out in multiple pieces, not good. Pic below of the spring plate and it's multiple pieces.  The little brass rivets holding the spring plate together had become shrapnel inside the clutch basket leaving a grove all the way around the outer shell and on a few spots on the inner shell. I took a few pics of the damage but they turned out way too blurry, sorry folks. In addition to the shell damage, the rivet shrapnel also tore off the lining on the friction plate next to the spring plate leaving a thick gooey mud of fiber and oil all over the inside of the clutch basket, yuck. Here is a pic of one of the fiber plates next to the damaged one for an idea of how much material was removed.  The hardest part of this project was cleaning all the crap out of the basket. After spending too much time cleaning up the mess I took a closer look at the grove in the outer shell. It wasn't too bad but it did go all the way around. There were a few small burs that I removed which allowed the new friction plates to slide in easily. The pic below shows an old fiber plate on the left and the new one on the right prior to being soaked in 10w30 per install instructions.  The stock clutch was composed of 8 friction plates, 6 steel plates and the now dysfunctional spring plate in the middle. The clutch kit I bought from EnergyOne came with 9 kevlar friction plates, 8 steel plates along with a 15% stronger spring diaphragm. The spring plate is NOT used with the new clutch setup, yippee. The old spring diaphragm was released from the tension of the clutch tool and discarded. The new stronger spring diaphragm was carefully aligned with the pressure plate then compressed with the tool for installation. The friction and steel plates went in with ease to be capped off by the pressure plate and spring diaphragm held in place by the reinstalled retaining ring. The pic below shows the new clutch installed in the basket.  The total time spent on this clutch replacement was about 3 hours, most of which was cleaning up the basket. The M2 is now running smother and shifting like new, back to doing wheelies again! And I was surprised, the clutch pull at the lever actually takes less effort than before, go figure. Thanks for tolerating my clutch dribble above. Just wanted to share the experience in case anyone else has encountered similar clutch issues. | ||
| Shotgun |
Excellent report, my friend. Glad it all went well. Now I know where to borrow the tool if I ever need it. How many miles on your M2? I forget. I completed the rear isolator/belt changeout by myself, but it took about 12 hours total. Would be much easier with 2 people. Used the Sacborg instruction with my own variations. Made me •••• and moan about the amount of time involved even if just the belt change-out. But after riding her tonite, I find I am still in love with my M2. I hope this belt will last 22500 miles as well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Awesome writeup spudman, thanks for the instructions and photos! | ||
| Spudman |
I know what your saying shotgun ... The M2 is running better than new again, the faster you go the smoother it gets, I love it. I did three big long wheelies on the way to work yesterday, just to make sure all was right. My isolators still look good and the belt looks fine. Sorry to hear of your challenging belt exchange. It's encouragement enough to run it till it breaks, lol. Current odometer reading is 31,700 smiles of fun. Reepicheep ... thanks for the kudos. Just hope it helps someone else to diagnose and fix their clutch issue without going to the stealer. | ||
| Buellseye |
Have I got a nightmare to tell you all about. I've had my 2000 S3 Thunderbolt for 8 weeks now and last week the thing stopped dead at a light and I couldn't even roll it off the road. It was jammed in gear and the clutch wouldn't disengage so I had to get a guy to help me drag it off to the side. After getting it towed to Jacox Harley in Toronto and waiting 4 days to have it looked at really good they said it needs to have the tranny pulled, inspected for damage and cleaned really good. What happened was the Primary chain tensioner lost a couple of pieces off the ends of the tensioner block and the backing plate that pushes against the tensioner block broke into two and these pieces were bouncing around inside the primary/clutch/tranny chamber waiting for their opportunity to jam things up. To make matters worse the primary chain had been severely loose for sometime due to the tensioner problems probably and had chewed away at the inside of the primary cover, causing metal chunks and filings to get spread throughout the whole works, including perhaps, the tranny. Anyways, I bought the bike at the end of July from Northern Motorsports in Bradford, up towards Barrie, north of Toronto, and I'm waiting on their word as to what they're going to do for me. You see, less than a week after I bought the bike from them the transmission/shifter jammed in 5th much like it did last week (except it wasn't jammed in 5th last week, and the first time the clutch didn't jam so I was able to push it off the road). I managed to get it up to speed by push starting it (because the starter won't allow that when it's in gear) and slipping the clutch trying not to lugg it, to get it up to speed. It quickly loosened the jam up and things were OK again. I called the dealer right after that saying I thought there was something wrong with it and he said it was probably just an fluke or an isolated event or something like that and I shouldn't worry too much about it but see how it goes. The week after that, the second week I owned it, I noticed a noise inside the cover and popped into a Harley repair shop near me and he pulled the inspection cover off and told me the primary chain was way too loose. He explained to me that it was easy to tighten and showed me how to, so I went home and tightened it. He also told me the drive belt was dangerously tight, and the day after that I managed to get a hold of the previous owner who I found out did a lot of his own maintenance on it and he helped me make some adjustments to my suspension and adjusted the drive belt for me in his garage. He also said the belt was dangerously tight and in the process of adjusting it noticed that the back wheel was 3mm off of alignment at the axle. So here I am 6 weeks later waiting for parts and completion of the repairs that are estimated at $1800. You can imagine what I'm feeling like #!&%*!!! What does anyone think I should expect from the dealer I bought it from? I'm expecting almost all of it to be reimbursed to me by them (Northern Motorsports), especially since this problem was more than evident within the first week and a half of buying it. And I would also expect them to be partially reimbursed by BMW Toronto, who took it as a trade in from the previous owner this summer and sold it to Northern Motorsports a week before I bought it. Any comments.? (From owners only that is - not dealers). The pictures can be viewed at the following link. Double click on them to see full size. www.fotop.net/spetrie/spetrie01 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sounds like it might be the 5th gear drive assembly as well as the primary chain tensioner failing. The primary tensioner is very common, the 5th gear drive assembly is less common, but by no means rare. I would hope the dealers would give you some relief out of a sense of professional courtesy, but am not aware of any legal obligation they would be under unles they knew about the problems when they sold you the bike. The primary chain tensioner upgrade is very common knowledge... I'm suprised they did not swap it for you before you got it. Both these things failed on my Cyclone as well. Did the work myself, and it probably ended up running another $500 in parts by the time I was done (and uncountable hours of labor). It was basically a full transmission rebuild. Sorry  | ||
| Reepicheep |
By the way, don't worry about the primary cover internal damage, that amount of grooving is not unusual, and I am unaware of anyone that has had any problems as a result of it so far. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Hi folks, Does this sound like clutch slip: Riding home from work the other week I decided to have some fun and took off from the lights really hard, wondering if the front would lift (it did a little in 1st). What didn't feel right was changing from 1st to 2nd the revs stayed constant when I brought the throttle on, but very very briefly. Going from 2nd to 3rd I watched the tacho but couldn't really see it jump up, so it's not major slipping, but again it felt/sounded like the revs stayed constant for half a second (or less even). Hard to describe, almost like there's a big elastic band in the transmission. I was changing up at around 6000, being as smooth and as fast as I could, letting the clutch out quickly before getting on the throttle. Does it sound like the early stages of clutch slip, or is it a weird Buell feeling? (It's my first belt drive bike, but I'm guessing it can't stretch that much). What's the best way to test for a slipping clutch? Steep hill, low gear? Or steep hill, high gear? Spudman - great notes and pics  Just hoping I don't have to do the same! Thanks in advance, lemonchili | ||
| Rick_a |
High gear puts the highest load on the clutch. If it was indeed slipping you should hear/feel the revs rise. The springplate in stock clutches suck. You can eliminate it with stock parts by getting 2 more steel and 1 friction plate. No magic there. You'll have a stronger more durable clutch with one side effect...it will reduce the lever travel required to work the clutch fairly dramatically. In other words, it'll be a bit more "touchy". I've been running mine like that for a year now. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Thanks Rick. I haven't been riding it much lately, but I'll hopefully be riding more in a couple of weeks and I'll try and work out if really is slipping. If it gets worse or starts to really annoy me, I'll try the extra plates. cheers, lemonchili | ||
| Thunderbolt_rider |
Does anyone have any experience with the installation of a Magura hydraulic clutch on a Buell? A couple of crashes have left my left hand less than 100% and this may be the relief I need. | ||
| Phooey |
question for anyone who knows..is there an upgrade for an xb9s clutch?? bought bike with the race ecm,k&n,and factory race pipe installed. clutch for some reason doesn't seem to grab like it should..only 1400 miles on it its an 03 lightning. thanx to anyone who an help.. | ||
| Easyflier |
Phooey, if it's not an adjustment problem you could install the clutch spring from an XB12 in it. Simplest and least expensive upgrade I can think of. | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: Had to redue my clutch at 79225.8 miles ... After "i" cleaned up the mess in the CLUTCH BASKET because the SPRING PLATE went bad it was not replaced ... Replaced the Spring plate with 2 steel plates and one friction plate ... This is a good "PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT" of which "i" recomend before the SPRING PLATE goes BAD ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Reepicheep  |
Thanks LaFayette! Do you know if the XB's have eliminated the spring plate? | ||
| Buellistic |
Bill: Did not know that !!! THANKs for the up-date ... If BMC leaves it out, it goes back to doing a econo race clutch product improvement which everybody did early on ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Reepicheep |
It was a question, not a statement, I was just wondering. Everywhere I look on this XB I find things fixed that I did not even know was broken (yet). Just curious if this was one of them... | ||
| Buellistic |
Bill: If you have a PARTS BOOK for your XB the picture of the clutch will indicate if it does or does not ??? Next time "i" stop by the DEALER "i" will look in the XB parts book !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Drfuyutsuki |
Ok, obviously I am still new to this whole thing. I am having issues with clutch drag; bike wants to move forward at a stop, what sounds like a clicking if the clutch lever isnt pulled all the way into the grip as I stop. I have adjusted the cable repeatedly and this is the best Ihave been able to get it. I have been looking through this thread and see people pulling out the spring plate and replacing it with an extra plate set. How does this affect use of the clutch? Have seen it stated as touchy but little else said. | ||
| Henrik  |
joshua; try pulling the derby cover and adjust the clutch itself, and then adjust the cable. Of course, if you haven't changed the primary chain adjuster to the new, beefier version, that may be what's playing tricks on you. There is a recent thread on exactly that topic. Hope this helps Henrik | ||
| Buellistic |
Drfuytsuki: If you have a stock clutch the TECHNICAN or others for that matter will tell you the clutch is adjusted improperly ... FIRST THING TO REMEMBER IS THIS IS A WET CLITCH IN SPORTSTERS, XBs, and BLASTs ... THERE IS SOME DRAG !!! Here are some things to THINK about: (1) If the BEARING PN8885 that works with the clutch adjuster screw goes bad you will loose the ability to adust the clutch properly and will get clutch drag ... (2)If the SPRING PLATE PN37977-90 goes bad you can not adjust the clutch properly(this item should be replaced with 2ea STEEL PLATES and 1ea FRICTION PLATE PN37911-90 to have a longer lasting clutch) ... Of course a TECHNICAN will say the SPRING PLATE has to be there so the clutch will work smooth which is "BUELLschitte" ... (3)Some times you just have to take the clutch apart to see just what is the "PROBLEM" ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Reepicheep |
And just for the record, the factory clutch is one of the most bulletproof units you can buy. More then one drag racer has gone through all sorts of very $$$$ custom racing clutches just to find them all inferior to what comes stock on a Buell. | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: If the clutch plates are good and it slips, there are "STRONGER SPRING, diaphragm" can be bought ... That is the way it is when you run FUEL and a WIDE DRAG SLICK !!! JUST TO SAY IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE A "STOCK CLUTCH" THAT IS SET UP PROPERLY SLIP ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Drfuyutsuki |
Henrik, I have done the adjustment on the clutch, not just the cable itself sorry my mistaken in not stating the full process. Its been a while since I have done it but I haven't put that many miles on the bike that I would think it would need adjustment again. The previous owner managed to round out the screw heads for the primary drive inspection cover so haven't been able to check the chain tension or the adjuster as of yet. LaFayette, I do realize that there would be some Clucth drag but as stated it seems to be excesive. I do plan to tear down the clutch assy to check for wear, and was inquiring more into use of the clutch after moding to a longer clutch. (Message edited by drfuyutsuki on February 15, 2005) | ||
| Buellistic |
Drfuyutsuki: Looked at your profile which states you have a 97S1 ... If you primary chain gets too loose it will hit the primary cover/engine case and cause this rattle sound ... It being a 97 model and if the SHOE ASM(primary chain adjuster)PN 39979-91 has not been "UP-DATED" to the newest PN 39975-90A it will need to be ... It could be BROKEN !!! Your primary chain should be adjusted to 5/8" to 3/4" on the tight spot ... Of course what the FACTORY MOTORS MANUAL says is too tight for the way we ride our BUELLs ...And of course, TECHNICANS will say that is too loose, my answer to both is "THATs BUELLschitte" ... Like wise the rear belt should ne adjusted to 2" on the tight spot ... If you "PING" me so "i" can get your E-MAIL address "i" will e-mail you some INFO on the above ... In BUELLing EX-AFSC46250 1960/1965 LaFayette Ljenne73c@verizon.net | ||
| Blake |
Clarification: ... 2"... with the rear suspension completely unloaded. LaFayette, Try using the "Private Message" link at the bottom of Drfuyutsuki's profile. It sends an email to him. In these days of rampant spam email address harvesters, I'd caution against posting your email address on any public web pages. BTW, sent you something today. | ||
| Buellistic |
Blake: "CLARIFICATION" is as follows !!! (1) Get the rear wheel off the ground("i" use two old car body stands) ... (2) "i" use a small HYD. jack under the wheel adjuster on the right side(to raise and lower the swing arm) ... (3) Remove the bolt from the swing arm/shock so small HYD. jack can do its job ... (4) Bring the swing arm to a level position and adjust BELT(or chain) on the tight spot to where it has a very slight movement(just off "TOO" tight) ... Now the BELT will be properly ADJUSTED which will be for the LIFE of the BELT and when you replace the BELT the adjustment will be perfect for the NEW BELT ... This is no so for chains as they expand with wear ... A SPEC/INFO SHEET is on the way to you !!! What "i" have put on it will surprise you as you will not beleive some of it,"BUT" it works for me !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: Have found out that the "BLAST" & "XB" clutches DO NOT have the SPRING PLATE in their CLUTCHs ... "i" see that as, if BMC has stoped useing the SPRING PLATE every SPORTSTER ENGINEed BUELL should have this SPRING PLATE removed also !!! In BUELLing LaFayette Ljenne73c@verizon.net | ||
| Oz666 |
Could someone tell me the bearing number for part number 36799-91? The part from the dealer has no markings whatsoever and the package says "Made in Taiwan" so I don't think it's a Timken. I am replacing my clutch and I want to have ALL the parts available. (just in case...)   Oz | ||
| Skulley |
I was having a hard time shifting so I decided to change the clutch pack to an energy one as suggested above. This is a picture of the old fiber plates. Some are missing nearly all the fiber pads. The energy one clutch shifts really smooth, and I can find neutral again.  |
