| Author | Message | ||
     Socoken |
Whodom, about the cheapskate thing. i usually do cut the pump, then hit the trigger to empty whatever, but not because im cheap. i do it to prevent dripping on my tank, or the side of my truck, or my shoes. just easier to be clean if you do it that way. its usually only a couple ounces, not a half gallon. Dana, i have always wondered about the 3 type-1 hose thing. any chance you could find out the real deal somehow? get some hard numbers like ounces and such. plus, there are different pumps, some hoses start 6 feet up, some much farther. i notice, on a hot day, the nozzle gets cool real fast, like after a second of pumping or two, indicating that there is gas coming from in the pump right away. this has always interested me, any information you can score is solid gold in my book. Thanks Ken ps- when on a road trip, and a one hose pump is the only option, i always offer to buy my buddies gas and fill his tank up first.... | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
From what I have been able to get so far is that the pumps do indeed use a suction or a backflush system to clear the line. There is a diverter valve & the pumps will suction back to that point. You may get a couple ounces fo mixed gas but nothing significant. Those net stories of getting 1/2 or 1 gallon of the "cheap" stuff are just that..stories. | ||
| BadS1 |
Ken we open up the pump unscrew the filter and we get about I'd say 6-8 ounces out of the filter.None I mean none come out of the hoses.I can understand how you guys would think that they would hold a X amount of fuel in the hoses and I would have thought the same until a little over a year ago and helped him out doing these at his stations I was amazed to find out that. | ||
| Buellfool |
Trench, I have a 12S with the race kit and have never had a problem with pinging. The talk is that BP ultimate is the best to use, but I have used 2 or 3 other PULPs with no problems at all. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Well, as always , you guys come thru w/ the info. Makes me feel better about the fuel, but now I have to wonder why the pinging? When I rode yesterday it was cooler out. Even after an hour of riding, my fan didn't run very long. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
M1 and Bads, The ECM was the fault on mine and at least one other I know. Some of the 12's just can't use the race ECM. I've had more than one ECM in my bike, all with the same result. Low and behold, put the stock one back in and the bike runs spot on. Not only that, I hear comments about the stock ECM running a bike lean and mine runs a little rich up top with the stock ECM. Point is, if you have the race ECM and it's pinging, put the stock one back ing and see what happens. It took agaes for us to figure out my bike is just not compatable with the race ECM. In fact 18 workshop hours at the Buell dealer. Glad I wasn't paying for it. And my bike was running lean on the race ECM, too. Where do you get the info that the race ECM richens the A/F mix??? BTW, my bike runs a AFV of 100% in stock trim. | ||
| Spyder12s |
I as well get the pinging ...and as with Trench I can not seem to run the race ecm way too lean or something and we tried 3 different ones that worked in other bikes | ||
| Trevxb12 |
even if all of you assumptions are right. the ecm(race or stock) should adjust to the conditions of the atmosphere/fuell grade just like my car and truck do. that is the perks of having fuel injection isnt it. so mister buell, please fix or i will just have a suzuki in my garage and advertize the same way!!!!!!! and someone else needs to make an upgrade to save us and mister buell!!!!!!!!! | ||
| M1combat |
The Buell FI system is widely regarded as one of the best made. It does adjust the mix based on intake air temp and an O2 sensor. If your bike pings then there is something out of whack. I would guess it to be the cam position sensor. | ||
| Opto |
Bluey glad you got it sorted. M1 don't get me started. Widely regarded as one of the best? Best at what?Stalling the motor when cold? Less than smooth running below 3k rpm? Pinging? Leaning out when mildly accelerating to create a huge flat spot? Intermittent erraticness? Inability to adjust to new barometric conditions without riding between 3200 and 4k rpm for 15 mins? Ever tried to do that when running late to meet some mates to go for a good ride and the bike runs less than optimal all day because there was no opportunity to sit between 3200 and 4k for 15 mins all day, like it was still tuned for much warmer weather that it was ridden in 2 weeks ago? The few people with 12 race ecm's that don't work on their bikes have had lots of things changed, adjusted, checked and replaced, and we (the owners) still have no answers. The stock ecm works fine, in comparison, but still suffers from some of the above idiosyncracies. | ||
| Spyder12s |
ME ME Me..I still am looking for an answers..butt loads of time and $$ have been spent to no avail ..and I thing we replaced everything on the motor that was a sensor or even sensor related with no results...all we get from buell is basicly if it works fine if it doesnt put it back to stock ..and leave it alone..AARRgg I just want that race ecm in there !! and all the pinging to go away.. | ||
| Glitch |
Spyder, what plugs are you using? | ||
| Joojoo |
Ive run the stock ECM, ran great. Now Im running the Race ECM, runs great. These motors put out wierd noises when they're running. Lots of clicks, pings and knocks. All the HD products seem too...That I've learned. Maybe the the "pinging" that we worry about is actually detonation, and not just motor noise ("BUELL" motor noise) The motors are really good. Really strong. Jack (Message edited by joojoo on August 10, 2004) | ||
| Spyder12s |
good question ...what ever was put in at the dealer ..is there something better I should try ? | ||
| Glitch |
Yes there is. Try NGK DPR9-EIX9 Iridium spark plugs. Helped me out. I have a 9 that had a pinging problem. Retarded the timing, got rid of most of the pinging, the plugs did the rest. Hope this helps. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Glitch, is that a good # ( plug ) for the 12 as well? | ||
| Glitch |
I really couldn't tell you for sure. But it's what Trojan uses in his race bikes, so my guess is yes it would help. I don't think there is a difference in the 9 and the 12 when it comes to spark plugs. (Message edited by glitch on August 10, 2004) | ||
| Socoken |
Dana when you go inside, to change the filter, how can you be sure there is no gas left in the hose? with the nozzle closed, the gas would not be able to siphon up the hose and back out into the pump. if there was a backflush to clear the lime, as greg states, why would there be pressure in the nozzle after the pump is shut off? it would seem to me, that the small amount of pressure released is built by the pump, and once that pressure is released, in less than a second, the pressure equals out and the vacuum/siphon holds the rest of the fuel in the line. unless of course, there is a check valve at the nozzle that only lets air in, allowing the weight of the fuel in the pump and the tank to draw the fuel in from the hose, but one would assume any sort of valve would leak from time to time. i want to believe there is a backflush or something that returned the fuel to the pump, clearing the hose, but i have not experienced evidence of one. also, which type of pump or gas station is it that you have seen? would it be safe to assume that if one brand does, they all do? would this sort of thing be governed by the Department of Weights and Measures? or is that just to insure fairness in volume? what if you went inside the pump, took out the filter and such, then opened the nozzle. if no fuel came out then, i think it would be safe to say that there was none left in the hose. if you have tried that, just say so, and i will stand corrected. thanks Ken | ||
| BadS1 |
Ken if you take the filter off any gas thats in the line would spill all over you.I've already said the pumps are at a mobil station not but a year 1/2 old and a Sinclair station I'd say those pumps are 5 yrs.old. | ||
| Socoken |
you stated that they were a mobil and a sinclair, but you also stated one had the one hose type, the other had the three hose type. you did not state which was which. going by the newness of the mobil, ill go out on a limb and assume the mobil is the one hose type. any chance the pumps go through some sort of cycle when/before you open them up to remove all the fuel from the system? any switches you shut off or buttons you hit inside before you change filters? if the pump is shut off, i would think it would remove all fuel from itself as a safety thing automatically, and that might differ from normal operation. | ||
| Southernmarine |
Well, I noticed that occasionally I get pinging as well. Of course down here it's hot as hell and sometimes I wonder if the heat might be a problem. I run premium in it, tempted to throw an octane booster in there. I'm fixing to have the thousand mile svc done on it and I'll bring that to their attention. The pinging only happened when I went to take off in first, sometimes second, and then goes away. It doesn't do it all the time either. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Okay,, So today I went to my service station ( a Liberty Station formaley AMOCO) I ask the guy who runs Manages it about the fuel pumps. I said I was concerned about the fuel that may be left in the line after someone pups fuel . He said yes, the fuel remains in the line. He was told this by the state ( Maryland) inspector who checks the fuel. When he certified the pumps ( new a few months ago as they just changed from being AMOCO ) that he had to purge the fuel from the line between each test. We took the covers off the pump to see the plumbing and filter system. The fuel comes up in three separate lines, into six pumps. Each pump has a filter located on the underside that can be removed w/out fuel draining back because there is a check valve on the line side. These particular pumps seem to have three individual 1" or so copper lines ( actually six, 3 on ea. side or rather 3 for each hose, one located on either side ) going up to where they connect to the hose. This part was not visable. I am not sure if the copper lines were service or evap return/breather lines as believed to be by manager. I did not see any other hose/ tube going toward the hose area. The length of the hose is 7', don't know the ID, OD about 1.75". Bottom line ... there is fuel in the line. The fuel in the line is whatever was pumped last. This may or may not be a significant amount, but these pumps have a range of 87 to 93 octane. I use the 93, but am almost certainly pumping a few ounces of 87 in first. My PING problem is only there when the bike is hot, and am accelerating in th e 3800 to 4200 range in 4th or 5th gear. I do not have any low rpm, 1st gear or lugging type ping. This is a clear metal to metal pinging that sounds like a hammer hitting the heads. ( to simplify it ) I am about to run this tank dry, and will be filling it up w/ 93 AFTER I put some in my car that I will have my wife drive up for me. We will see what happens then | ||
| Socoken |
Greg, thanks for sharing, that is outstanding that the manager took you through all that. if it was me, i would do my best to buy ALL my gas there, for my cars anyway. Great info  | ||
| Trevxb12 |
i dont think it is where you fill up, i ride with many bikes and many buells. when we ride we fill up at the same place. i ping, they dont. simple as that. only one other xb12r with the race kit and he doesnt ride as much as i do but has had a few pings. i have many more( guessing equivelent to as many miles ). so any other ideas that will tell whats really wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Bottom line, I second what Opto said. My bike had ALL the ECM related sensors changed and neccissary recalibration done as required (several times). Whats more, all those sensors had to be borrowed from a NEW 12 that was in the shop as the parts were not available. MY SENSORS WERE ALL TRIED IN THE OTHER 12 AND WORKED FINE!! Point is, nothing (including 18 HOURS OF SHOP TIME, retarding the timing and replacing ALL THE SENSORS) could fix the following problems on my bike with the RACE ECM: 1. Pinging. So bad the BUELL TECHNICIAN started to call it "ping on demand". 2. Surge when cruising. 3. Failure for the bike to settle to idle in a timely fashion. I'll say it again 18 hours, of shop time, with a Buell technician, all new sensors, new ecm, all of my parts were also tried in another bike. Once again, some 12's just aren't compatable with the race ECM, either that, or the 12's that are working with the race ECM will start to have the same problems when they get some miles up. I got the stock ECM and it's great. Actually runs a bit rich up top, bet you guys won't believe that, either. But then what would I know, I've spent 4 months trying to fix this problem. Answer from the factory was stick it back to stock and leave it that way. Seriously, that's what they said. I think I'll be buying the Binelli 1150 naked next time. I'll shut up, I feel much better now. Signed, Frustrated at the lack of Buell Corporate's tech support. | ||
| Glitch |
I wonder if the compression is the culpret. We have high compression so we can meet emissions. Since we have high compression we have to run high octane gas. With gas the way it is now, quality is in question, in my mind. Octane boost is OK with our O2 sensor? | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Glitch Thought I read somewhere either in owners manual or service manual that Octane booster wd. take out the 02 sensor, having said that, who knows how long it wd. take to take it out,.. and if it wd... | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Glitch, the race rep bikes have high compression also. My R1 has 12.3-1 & doesnt ping 1 bit no matter where I get the gas from. However my X1 would ping on a hot day..90+ in traffic. | ||
| BadS1 |
Deerhunter then who's eating the price of the gas thats left in the line the consumer or the gas station???? | ||
| Glitch |
Then it's a combination of things I reckon. Retarding the timing a little, and making sure I get "good" gas has solved 98% of it. The only time I hear it ping now is in heavy traffic on a hot day with the engine hot as well, but only at heavy acceleration in 5th. In short, heat plus load. |
