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Dino
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:07 pm: | 
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"I have had cops pull guns on me, steal my stuff, run me off the road, etc. "
Gawd Almighty! I sure lead a boring life. Forgive me for asking, but what is it that causes all these cops to treat you this way? Just bad luck?! You a bad cop magnet? |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:33 pm: |
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Chainsaw:
Answer to your Theoretical Question..Might get you pulled over more just to ask why you are wearing something like that or to get a picture in camera, as far as getting out of the ticket.....for a city cop definately....from a trooper maybe. It would be a fun one to try though...if you do u will have to let me know how it goes.
SAR |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:37 pm: |
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Dyna, any time you make it this way, I'll let ya hit the lights once or twice even. Don't think I can let ya drive though |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:46 pm: |
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I meant the FBI warrant question, not the Tigger Ears!
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R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:06 pm: |
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Dyna, any time you make it this way, I'll let ya hit the lights once or twice even. Don't think I can let ya drive though
Ok, how's about shooting your gun? Or maybe we can go on a high speed pursuit?
Or maybe I will do a low level flyby at 160+ & you radar me? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 09:07 am: |
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Chainsaw,
Probable cause has to be defendable to some extent, it has to have some level of reasonable merit associated with it before it can be acted upon to some degree. Probable cause is a gray zone issue and is at times very subjective and very situationally dependant. If your the Curious George t-shirt is sized to a 6 year old that the subject squeezed into and if the Curious George image has been artistically enhanced or modified in some way and if the person wearing said t-shirt is acting in some abnormal manner (subjective interpretation based on situation at hand) then there may be some level of probable cause to peruse the subject's computer, much as if there were an open package of photographs on the table the subject was just looking at prior to the interraction of the FBI (or any other law enforcement type).
This probably doesn't really answer your question since computers can at times be considered like a closed and locked briefcase, and at other times like an open book on a table. If someone has questionable Curious George images on their computer, then it may be advisable to also have a screen saver hot key lock program, or a very short timeout on the password protected screensaver that is somewhat subjectively similar to a lock on a briefcase or a zipper on a purse, sort of.
If the issue is relative to the FBI specifically, then the best response is to seek an answer from your regional federal court system as they will be the ones presiding over the trial, or at least a federal level attorney and try to get a free 15 minute session to get the Curious George computer question answered.
On a side note, if unsolicited SPAM-mail includes illegal graphic images of any variety, can one be legally entwined and accused of having said illegal images on their computer or under their control in their e-mail account if they haven't been SPAM-purged yet?
On a side side note: I can see a ride coming up called The Invasion of Davenport. Buells and an R1 all invading Iowa looking for twisty roads and a friendly radar gun. Speedometer calibration anyone?
On the issue of "bad cops", just like any segment of any society there is a small percentage of bad ones, just like with "bikers". The main problem I have with "bad cops" is the Code of Silence, kind of like Honor Among Thieves. One thing many new recruits are told early in their training is to turn in "bad cops" as their badness reflects on the whole Police Force just like dog shyt on one pair of boots can stink up a whole room. On the whole most cops are good. There are a few departments with a higher percentage of bad ones. There are many departments with a lower percentage of bad ones. There are departments that police their own internally and unoffcially oust the bad ones from their ranks.
Ride-a-longs are great. As was told to me many years ago, most people would be very surprised about what really goes on in their immediate vicinity and their own neighborhoods. If the local press published every police call and every incident on a daily basis many citizens would barricade their doors and sleep on their basement floors.
YMMV
image linked from: http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/news/08/11/media.advertising.mc.reut/story.curious.george.jpg
(Message edited by mikej on August 10, 2004)
(Message edited by mikej on August 10, 2004) |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 09:27 am: |
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Mikej: I am very familiar with what it takes to get a search warrant. I have 2 Federal LEO's in my family, and we have discussed warrants and the 4th Amendment to the Constitution at great length. A LEO who pulls me over has no probable cause to search me based on my means of transportation or attire. Said LEO would not be able to convince any judge to issue a search warrant based on a traffic infraction and a "hunch". Some LEO's rely on the general public's ignorance of the law. They are under no obligation to inform me that I can refuse the voluntary search (by Supreme Court decision)
My basic point here is that Police Officers who pull me over want me to comply with a voluntary warrantless search. I'm asking if the Police Officers themselves would let another Law Enforcement agency search their personal belongings without a warrant. My guess is Hell No they wouldn't. Yet they ask me to submit to a search when they themselves would not offer up the same courtesy to another branch of Law Enforcement.
The Silence of the LEO's speaks volumes. |
Buelluk
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
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I got pulled over by a DEC environmental officer recently in NYS ,I asked him about his jurisdiction as a 'tree cop' and he said he was an NYS peace officer so he was allowed to pull me over based on my infraction ..crossing double yellows to pass him. He was cool , but I would like to know what would have happened if he had wanted to book me for something..does he call in the local troopers /sheriff etc. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:49 am: |
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It is my understanding that "Tree Cops" have the authority (in most States) to arrest a violator within their jurisdiction.
In fact, here in Wisconsin, they are the folks that operate the radar and issue tickets on the offroad trail systems as well. |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 04:58 pm: |
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I'm asking if the Police Officers themselves would let another Law Enforcement agency search their personal belongings without a warrant.
I would not have a problem with it. If for some reason, they thought I was up to something then by all means do what you have to do. Example: I got pulled over in a town in Indiana one day for going 45 in a 30. I was late getting my son back to his mothers house. Local guy pulls me over. I roll my window down, and don't move untill he approaches me. I give him my license and am polite with him. He comes back, and give me a verbal warning. I then strike up a quick conversation with him, (Since I am already late might as well be really late), I start asking him about how his job is, in this city. I then inform him I am also a cop. He asked me why did you let me go through all of that? My reply, was I was doing something wrong and you got a job to do. If he would have asked to look inside my Jeep, I would not have had a problem.
On a side side note: I can see a ride coming up called The Invasion of Davenport. Buells and an R1 all invading Iowa looking for twisty roads and a friendly radar gun. Speedometer calibration anyone?
That sounds great, would give the new BMW traffic bikes a chance to see what they really have!!!!!! |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:05 pm: |
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Hmmm...why do I get the feeling that this will become a major source of revenue for Davenport.  |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:09 pm: |
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well the city definately needs it, according to the FBI we should have 35 more sworn cops then what we have. City to broke to do it. After the month we have had thought they might consider it. 9 bank robberies and three homocides in thelast month. We are all working our tails off. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:14 pm: |
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Food, gas, lodging, beverages, souveniers, so forth. 
Not sure how major of a source it would be though since we can't seem to generate enough support for even a battletrax event in this region. But who knows .... could be something to promote to the regional forums. We can do it even if BRAG can't, regional destination rides. Perhaps something to plan out for next year, nothing official, no fees, totally individually self supported, do your own thing type of thing.
Probably way off topic, whatever the topic is here currently. Do I deserve a bike ride? Yep. Do I deserve a speeding ticket? Maybe. Do I deserve to be treated disrespectfully? Nope.
Are we back on topic yet? I have no idea since it's almost time to go home and my mind is now already elsewhere.......... |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:26 pm: |
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That sounds great, would give the new BMW traffic bikes a chance to see what they really have!!!!!!
Bring em on!!
And Yes to the radar speedo calibration |
Buelluk
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:54 pm: |
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I don't have any problem with the tree cops working the trails..but i would have issues with them policing the roads as I am sure it is unlikely they receive the comprehensive training a LEO does. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 06:56 pm: |
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Don't know the true answer to that one. From what I understand they do receive proper training in the respective areas of law enforcement that they are involved it.
Citation and arrest procedures training for violations in their area of responsibility is expected. If there was an area that they most likely would be lacking in is investigation, which would be more than likely handled by the governing authority (Fed, State, County and or Local Law, Fire or Code Enforcement Agencies).
I think the key point to remember is that their responsibility ends at determining whether or not a citation or arrest is warranted. It is up to the Courts to hear your case and hang you if found guilty.
Of interest, as an Orange County California Life Guard, a friend of mine was required to complete the same driving skills class that the CHP does. Plus, he received classes in arrest, detention, crowd control and a whole host of other subjects. Granted this was in the 1960's and I don't know if this was basic or advanced training required for promotion, but I would assume the requirements still exist.
In retrospect, I think the funny part is where was he supposed to hide a gun in his uniform (Speedo's).  |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 08:02 pm: |
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Here in Iowa, the tree cops go throught the same training as we did. They have the same authority and arrest powers. The only difference is they are not used to that kind of thing and do not keep up on the recertification like we do. Otherwise if they did and they put radar units in, or if the county guys needed help they could respond.
SAR |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:00 pm: |
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Thanks Chad... |
Buelluk
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:40 am: |
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Thanks for your responses guys, i'm not down on cops ,my brother is a cop in the UK, it's just in the UK there is only one uniform type to contend with and I wanted to be clear. |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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Not to bring a dead thread back but I found this article in one of my many magazines I git recently and just wanted to share:
Trooper Mitchell Brown, VA State Police
Well, Mr. Citizen it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly in to the catagory where you've placed me.I'm stereotyped, grouped and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true. I can never figure you out. rom birth you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, then you're shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy...the criminal!! You accuse me of coddling criminals...until I catch your kids doing wrong.
You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup. you pride yourself on your manners but think nothing of distrupting my meals with your troubles. you raise hell with the guy that cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I am picking on you. You know all the traffic laws...but never got a single ticket ou deserved.
You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more then ten minutes to respond to your complaint. You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but cal it "police brutality" if I strike back. you wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth, or your doctorhow to take out an appendix, yet you are always willing to give me pointers on the law.
You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else but expect me to take it without batting an eye. You yell "somethings got to be done to fight crime" but you can't be bothered to get involved. You have no use for me at all, but ofcouse it's OK if I change a flat tire for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps save your so's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.
Yes Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox, and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me everyname in the book, but never stop to think your property, family, maybe even yuor life depends on me or one of my buddies. Yes Mr. Citizian, its me...the cop!
***Trooper Brown was killed in the line of duty two months after writing this article. May he rest in peace. |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |
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Not that I think anyone here is like that, it was just ironic how I came across this article after having this discussion here on the web. Its just a reminder for me, that I do this job because I love doing it. Not for the money, but for the joy I feel when I help someone, or the satisfaction I get when I get the dope off the street, and put the dealer in jail.
SAR |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 08:39 pm: |
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Sardawg2dpd: love that article.
Any advice for someone trying to get into a PD?
(Message edited by Doughnut on August 15, 2004) |
Sardawg2dpd
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 09:02 pm: |
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YEa don't do it!!!!! just kidding. Try hard and don't let the badge go to your head |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 09:51 pm: |
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I'm pretty easy going, Just can't seem to get in any where. Wisconsin as a whole seems to not be good for LEOs right now. Feel free to email me with any advice. That goes for all LEOs on the board.
Take care, be safe. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:05 am: |
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Dough, tell me about it. 2 years ago I applied to be a county jailer...I was hoping to use it as a stepping stone, but after I passed the psych tests & the multiple interviews as well as the background check, they still decided not to hire me & they wont even tell you why.
If I knew..then I could work on it. And with budget cutbacks now, Kenosha is currently looking at the possibility of 23-24 sheriff deputy positions being eliminated. |
Socoken
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:38 am: |
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wait wait wait, YOU passed a psych exam????
what was it for?? admission to the happy house?? |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:52 am: |
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ken..I have passed lots of them.
Used to do work for the Nuclear power plants. Worked for an independant contractor and we were in charge of going in & plugging up the leaking steam generator tubes.
Tests & background checks before every job. Have worked at power plants in Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Wisconsin & Florida.
Tests for cops have nothing on these guys. |
Socoken
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 01:00 am: |
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so, youve spent much of your life around power plants, that explains it. thanks for clearing that up. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 01:06 am: |
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Not much of my life..that was only a 3 year period.
Cool thing is I dont require a flashlight at night |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 01:30 am: |
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That's what I call looking on the bright side.  |
Socoken
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 01:31 am: |
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so now its a 150hp nuclear powered R1? |
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