| Author | Message | ||
     Glitch |
I know I'm a little late to the party, but here goes anyway. Tbs, isn't putting down Buell at all. I know him personally and he ain't like that. I think this is a simple example of the typed word being "black and white" as opposed to face to face conversation being in "living color". Learned a lot of Buell history in this thread  | ||
| Court |
>>>>Tbs, isn't putting down Buell at all. I know him personally and he ain't like that. Glitch: Agreed. I think he just had not realized some of the work Erik had been doing early on and the enormous work involved in making the leap from an "idea" to a "marketable product". My compliments to all for a sane and responsible dialouge. Court | ||
| Glitch |
My compliments to all for a sane and responsible dialouge. Same here. Good morning Court! | ||
| Anonymous |
R1, you are wrong about Suzuki and USD forks. Do your research. Buell had them in production before anyone else. Buell did NOT invent them. Regarding patents and licensing, there are a few pertinent things I can add for those who want to know. One: Major companies do license from inventors. Example? Every major fork supplier paid Steve Simons for years for USD forks while his patents existed. Rock Shox exists because of those patents. They hate it, especially the Japanese motorcycle companies, and fight for years, which often wipes out the financial resources of their opponents. The guy from the US who invented Suzuki's motorcross suspension hung in there for about ten years and finally won millions, but I don't know how he afforded it. Two: A US patent has no power overseas, and as so you need to get overseas coverage (which costs a LOT more than in the US.) However, a product made overseas that violates a US patent cannot be sold here without royalties (assuming you have the money to hire lawyers to fight, once again). Three: How you write the claims in a patent is crucial to the breadth of coverage, and is one of the most difficult things. Some companies, most notably Honda have a staff that is dedicated to reviewing exciting patents and looking for ways to sneak around the claims. For example, Honda recently got a patent on an underslung muffler, by adding the caveat that their version would have exhaust entering the muffler in the front and in the back. I would expect to see it on the street version of the V-5. | ||
| Court |
>>>I would expect to see it on the street version of the V-5. Sir Not-a-Moose: I say "great". Taking on Honda would be a waste of Buell resources. Instead, there will be good folks like myself, Ferris and the rest of The Elves who will incessantly remind the world of Honda's thinly veiled acknowledgement to Buell's innovative and creative engineers. Emulation seves to enhance the value of the genuine product. Take note of impact the HD wannabe's had on the genine deal....other than perhaps the 1987 Ford Taurus and the taillights of the MB the following year there are few exceptions. Honda putting a "Buell Muffler" on a street bike will be a rolling billboard for many of us to point at as we continue to convert folks. Court | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Anony...the articles I found point out Suzuki instituting USD forks in 1990 & Buell in 91. Not 1 picture I found of any 90 Buells showed a USD setup. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
ok check this out i love my buell and i really like buell as a company, the reason why i do is because of the fact that they are bold and dont follow the normal standard. It is like in an articale i read in a mag u can take four jap sports bikes strip them of there plastics, and then line a buell up to them and strip it down and the only one u will be able to tell from the rest is the buell. so i dont give a rats a** what the other guys try to take from the buells or if they tryed it before buell the point is buell made all this stuff work and work good to create a total package. | ||
| Court |
Hey...sidebar folks...one of the funniest of Buell Intelllectul Property stories is when a Eurpoean Company proclaimed themselves to be "BUELL AMERICAN MOTORCYCLE CO. LTD." I saved all the paperwork, newspaper articles, etc. all the time hoping that someday Erik and I would be able to "look back at this and laugh" (we are still waiting on a few of those to laterialzie) and am pleased to say that the folks lasted about a fortnight. The tale of how they were squashed is one of the funnier ones.....remind me to tell you sometime... Court For the benefit of the fellow who thought "Court must be dreaming this stuff up"  | ||
| Blake |
My objective was to keep this thread a little grounded. See my former statements and analogous examples. Blake, are you not capable of discussing Buells without attacking me as a hater? Done. | ||
| Rocketman |
At this side of the Atlantic I'm in a position to see some things slightly differently. I believe the company you have spoken of on several occasions Court, and ridiculed, is non other than Sparks. I know Sparks. I test rode my first Buell S1 from them. That was in January 97. They kind of specialized in importing Corvette's , as well as dealing in specialist used cars. Amongst other things they did, they also sold Titan's over here. In fact, they were the only place that you could buy a Titan from. On several occasions over a couple of years or so, I visited Sparks fashionable outlet on London's Finchley High Road, two thirds of which was dedicated to Corvette's and the like, the remaining third Buell and Titan. It was a marvelous shop decorated to look like you were standing in the Arizona desert. Attention had been paid to detail. Detail to attract the customer to their considerable investment. They didn't have Titan's and Buell's sat on their floor that they didn't own outright. Not only that, but they'd done their homework importing these two brands, again at their expense, and if like me you wanted a Buell in the UK in early 1997, or before, you COULDN'T buy one from Harley Davidson because they didn't have any, but more significantly, they weren't even in the picture. at least not exclusively speaking. HD might have been on your side of the pond, but over here Sparks had invested a lot of money in advertising, lending their own Buell's to the magazine gentry and the likes, forging the path for HD \ Buell UK to follow, offering Buells from their own resources and doing a fine a job as anyone else who'd grey imported. Whilst you might not have liked the name they attempted to use, you'd have shaken their hands if it was Buells only route to importing their product in the UK. Imagine if HD hadn't bought up 98%, Sparks would probably be in a very fortunate position right now with the Buell factory. You can't knock a guy for trying. Isn't that what Erik did? Incidentally, the British first used USD forks in the 20's. Ditto fuel in the frame. It was also a Brit who invented the perimeter brake, as well as the Jet engine, hovercraft and mushy peas. All that said I wish Buell a happy and prosperous future with their innovation. That's the one thing Buell excel in more than others. One more thing Court. On several occasions recently, you've mentioned EB has designed things outside of motorcycling. What for example are we talking? I'm a bit of an inventor myself. I hold the patents for a solar powered miners lamp. Unfortunately for me, mining is all but dead in the UK. Rocket | ||
| Dresden |
"It was also a Brit who invented the perimeter brake, as well as the Jet engine" BS  (Message edited by Dresden on August 01, 2004) | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
im not sure exactlly what all he has pat.'s on but i know he does have one for a bicycle he desighned | ||
| Phillyblast |
>> I hold the patents for a solar powered miners lamp. Unfortunately for me, mining is all but dead in the UK um, hey Sean, isn't mining kinda an underground thing?  now canary powered, that would be the shite? | ||
| Rocketman |
You mean there's no sun down there? No wonder my invention failed - and I thought it was the demise of the mining industry. Rocket | ||
| Buell_zen |
“Black Lightning claimed 70 horsepower. The angle between the cylinders was increased to 50 degrees and the motor was now a stressed member, the short spine frame running between the steering head and the rear shock mounts. The miniframe served double duty as an oil tank, holding three quarts of engine oil for the dry-sump twin.” This quote is from: http://www.zx11.info/zx11/uk7.htm The 50’s Vincent Black Lightning (Lightning! Now where have I heard that before?) was an English liter V Twin designed by P. E. Irving. I think of my XB9S Lightning as a modern version of the Vincent. Jay Leno has a Vincent and says it is the finest motorcycle that was ever made. I think that was before he got his Firebolt though. | ||
| 984_cc |
The basic point here is this- There’s definitely a growing interest by other motorcycle companies to produce a bike that has the overall characteristics that Buells have had for a long time now- Yamaha’s MT-01 Kodo is the perfect example- An air-cooled pushrod V-twin tuned for low-down torque (usable street power) coupled to a sportbike chassis (made to conquer corners) with minimal bodywork. They just used a monstrous engine to get an advantage in torque over the Buell. It’s not a cruiser (lawn-mower), a super-sport (race-replica), a giant trailee (Dakar machine), a retro-superbike (ZRX 1200R), or anything else I can think of. It falls directly into Buell’s unique class. To me, the XB series has the most unique character and is the most unique motorcycle available today. The XB’s are in a class of one until they start selling the MT. The MT is most like the Lightning in overall concept. What other bike can you compare it to? If Yamaha decided to style the MT-01 more like the Firebolt, I don’t think anyone would be arguing here. Now, if the MT-01 was an all-new V-max that could handle really well, that would be an entirely different story. I wouldn’t call a V-max a Buell wannabe, nor would I call the MT-01 a wannabe either, just a copycat, and a good one at that. It’s more like they want a piece of the action. If you can’t beat-‘em, join ‘em. Can you see Buell wanting a piece of the 600/750/1000 class supersports? Yamaha know’s there is plenty of room in the class of Buell. Other’s will follow. BTW- I never said all of the bikes listed on this thread were copycats. And I also never said they were all junk. I like all kinds of motorcycles, not just Buells, although the XB’s are near the top of my list. I have owned more than 20 motorcycles and I’m only 26 years old. I really like Japanese, British, and Italian machines. The only one’s I don’t like are the fat cruisers. And The Vincent is very cool too. I like that comparison. | ||
| Blake |
It seems to me that the Yammer MT01 more resembles the tube frame Cyclone-M2 and Lightning-S1 than the XB Lightnings. When did Ducati first release Il Monstro? | ||
| 984_cc |
I was comparing to current Buells. Did you mean X1 Lightning? The Ducati seems more traditional to me. Kind of like a retro standard-style bike. More comparable to say my Kawasaki ZR-7. But yeah, I forgot about the Monster. It seems kind of normal for the Ducati to be what it is. V-twins are more normal to the Italians than to the Japanese. You could then bring Moto Guzzi into the subject. The Ducati would probably be a better touring bike than the lightning though. It's obvious that Yamaha has Buell on their minds, not Ducati. | ||
| 984_cc |
This reminds me...Cagiva's Raptor is a pretty cool bike (both styles)...with it's Suzuki derived V-twin. | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- Ducati's web page sez it was introduced "more than a decade ago" I was thinking more like 13/14 years, but I spose that more than a decade | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
The Monster came out around 93. The MT01 reminds me of Yamaha Bulldog they released around three years ago, albeit with a lot less power (Vstar 1100 engine) and more conservative styling. | ||
| Rocketman |
I wouldn't get uptight by the presence of the MT01. There's no way that's going to take sales from Buell. Whatever category you want to put the current Buells in, it is the type of people that buy Buells that make the real difference - not the bikes. No one considering the purchase of a Buell is going to give the MT a look. What would the point be? Whatever it is, the MT is a Japanese bike and the kudos in ownership of such a bike is not comparable to the owning of a Buell. Some things are sacred, such as exclusiveness. You can't buy that from Japan at any price. You know why? Well I'll tell you. Because no matter what bike you buy from Japan, be it a rare RC45 or a classic 750 Four from 1969, you'll always know you're riding a Japanese bike, even if you were blindfold. Think of it like this. A Lexus will never be a Mercedes. Understand? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Nothing else on the face of the Earth looks like an X1. No, I meant the S1. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
A Lexus will never be a Mercedes. Understand? And for that we should all be thankful. Currently the Mercedes lineup is undergoing more lemon lawsuits than any other brand of auto. | ||
| M1combat |
""It was also a Brit who invented the perimeter brake, as well as the Jet engine" BS " didn't the Germans steal it from the Brits? | ||
| Jasonblue |
I was watching one of those auto shows a while back and the most reliable luxury car was the flagship Lexus. Model? The least reliable was the new BMW 7 series. They stated that a brand new Beemer was less reliable than a 5 year old Lexus. | ||
| Dresden |
"didn't the Germans steal it from the Brits?" No. Germany implemented jet engines first also {successfully}...like Vergeltungswaffe 1, Me262s{only jet fighter in WWII}...first jet plane was Heinkel He178. "A Lexus will never be a Mercedes. Understand?" Yes...the lexus lacks a soul. | ||
| Stealthxb |
the lexus lacks a soul as do most luxury cars. As far as I can tell the only one that has a soul is Cadillac. | ||
| BadS1 |
1989 was the year that they put a USD fork on the GSXR's.I owned a 750 it had them on The "Sling Shot" year and I got a buddy that has a 89 1100 that also has them. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Dana, im still waiting for Anony to tell me why im wrong about the usd forks. |
