| Author | Message | ||
     Coldwthrrider |
I just did an official Buell demo day today, here are some observations. A. Rode the CityX B. Tires make a difference C. The new ones are smooth D. Fans sound dumb E. Buell is doing a good job with promotions, no help from HD So I took two friends to the Buell demo day this morning for some test rides of bikes. They had 2 12R's, 1 12S, 1 9SX, 1 Blast, 1 Sportster, 1 V-Rod. Strange how the CityX was the only 9 they had. All bikes were stock, no race kits, so they're quiet...I forgot how quiet and smooth a 12 is stock! A. Cut to the chase, I rode it. It's nice, I wouldn't buy one. In person on a sunny day the blue plastic looks really cool. The hand guards snap on the ends and only one screw holds them on so they'd be easy to remove. The seat is in fact pretty high as others have mentioned. I'm 6' and can flat foot it but while riding it almost slides your junk into the airbox because it's sloped forward. Sitting next to a 12S the seat looks almost 2" taller. The power was very smooth, better than my 9R with race kit, maybe that 12 airbox cover helps? This was my first time on an S model and it's just way too upright for me. I got used to it and it would be a fun bike for zooming around town, but I just don't get a stable feel at speed sitting up like that and my back would hurt being in a neutral position. Basically if you like the S, here's another color, with a different seat that you might need to replace. B. The Pirelli tires on the CityX are very round, I assume like the diablos? My 9R has Dunlop 208's as did the test 12R. I rode the 12R first and it was even harder to force into a low speed turn than my bike, yet very stable in a straight line. The CityX just rolled over into turns, almost too easy! At slow speed it just lays over, gotta be careful not to overturn. At higher speeds it's still really flickable, more responsive than the 208's. I assume this is the difference people have mentioned when going from the Dunlops to the Pirelli/Metzler. I'm sure this is part of their CityX image, quick turns in town or whatever. C. All the bikes were new and had about 500 miles on them. They're on their way to Sturgis so they wanted to get them broken in before they got there. Both the 12R and 9SX had the smoothest transmissions of any Buell I've ridden. I'm wondering if they changed something, because with that low of miles experience would say they're not broken in yet. I'm running Mobil1 75W90 in my '03 (mfg May '02) and it's still fairly clunky between 1-2 at 6000mi. The engines were also buttery smooth, especially the 12. The last demo ride I took on a 12 was my first so maybe I had a different frame of reference, but it seemed just totally dialed in. All across the powerband it was just awesome. the 9 (CityX only) was also nice, but I'm used to one with a race kit so I'm not sure if the extra noise makes it seem more grumbly. D. It wasn't even that hot, mid-high 70's and after one test ride all the bikes were running the fans non-stop. We'd come to a stop light and you couldn't hear the engines pitter-patter, just the high pitched hum of a bunch of fans. I asked about synthetic and they said that "most" of the bikes don't come from the factory with synthetic. What does that mean, I don't know. I went out riding for a couple hours later today (hotter in the afternoon) and my bike ran the fan occasionally when going slower but not like these did. I think that's a turn off to prospective buyers, but what can you do!? E. The Buell truck is cool, they did a great job of setting up a quick and easy demo ride. Other places I've been are hassle to ride a bike. Here you fill out a piece of paper and they get you going instantly. The people were real friendly to talk to and helpful with questions from newbies. The problem is promotion. This event was listed on the Buell site as July 29-31. In reality it was only from 9am til 11:30am. The HD dealer it was at did not even list it on their events calendar and when I called to ask about it they didn't even know it was happening. The left hand has to talk to the right hand for this stuff to work. Here Buell is putting out a great effort to show off their bikes and get people on them and HD doensn't even care. I saw a few people who were blown away after their test ride and heard "get this guy to talk to a sales guy right now, I think we have a customer". Unfortunately besides a few Buell owners (myself and a few others there) there were only about 6 people test riding the bikes! That's hardly worth it to truck bikes around and have people showing them off if only 6 people are going to ride. I think of those 6, they hooked about 2 for sure. To wrap up, the impression on my friends were good and mediocre. One thought he wanted a Buell already, and this more or less sealed the deal, now it's just which one and when can he afford it. The other wasn't too impressed, and will probably end up with a Guzzi or something else. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Good write-up. I had a similar experience as you when I rode a friend's XB9S with race-kit. It was noisier and not as quick up to about 50 mph as my 9s with just a 12 airbox cover. Those hand-guards might be handy in the winter months. Can't cost too much, right? | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
"Those hand-guards might be handy in the winter months. Can't cost too much, right?" That's what I was thinking! I have heated gloves (Gerbing) which are awesome down to 35 degrees (as cold as I'll ride) but the added wind protection would be nice! I may consider them for my 9R for the winter months but would have to verify fairing clearance, and compatibility with throttlemeister.} | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Last weekend we went on a ride & Fish/aka Jeff had his 12R. Anyways the fan on that bike ran non stop the entire time. We were all laughing about it, cause its the only damn thing anyone could hear. Didnt matter if we were running fast or slow or anything, it just wouldnt stop running. None of the other XB's...there were 4-5 other XB's..all 9's..ran the fan as much as that 12 did. | ||
| Glitch |
I call it my "After Cooler"  Mine seems to run less and less as the miles add up. Mostly at shut down, then again I may just be getting used to it, the race kit helps to mask it I'm sure. | ||
| Darthane |
Well, the 9s run cooler in general, adding good synthetics (doubtful that the demos had synth in them yet) helps also. My fan doesn't come on during riding unless I'm really on it or it's really hot out. ...and when it does it really cooks the jewels! | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
My fan usually only runs after the bike is off. Only when in stopped traffic on a hot day does it come on while riding. I guess what I was trying to tell the guy was that maybe if they ran synth from the start on the demo bikes they might not run the fans so much. It just seems to be a non-selling point for potential buyers. Four fans going at once gets pretty loud! | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Oh yeah, here's the picture (crappy camera phone) of the seats side by side  The other observation was that almost all of the demo bikes had the new puck sliders on them. They're really beefy! I need some. | ||
| Alstroker |
That is odd that you mentioned the fans running so much. I was at a demo ride a couple of weeks ago and we were on 04 bikes. I am not sure how many miles they had on them but I bet it was way over 500 miles. Anyway, it was about 90 degrees outside and we never got over 40mph and the only time the fans kicked on was after we parked and shut them down. The bikes may get better after they get broken in. | ||
| Glitch |
The other observation was that almost all of the demo bikes had the new puck sliders on them. After helping with the world's biggest Buell demo ride this past spring, I would have to say this is a good move. | ||
| Blake |
All engines that are not fully worn-in will run hotter. A quiet fan would be a huge improvement to the XBs. I'm thinking a squirrel cage configuration might be in order if it can be made to fit. | ||
| Blake |
Great report Eric! Thanks for taking time to share your demo experience with us. I have yet to ride an XB12R or S or an XB9R and so appreciate all the real world perspectives I can get. One comment... I'm pretty sure that it is the much wider bars of the "S" versions that endow them with significantly lighter steering compared to their "R" version siblings. (Message edited by blake on August 01, 2004) | ||
| Freyke |
Blake, FYI, squirrel cage (AKA induction) motors are AC and depend upon freqency to rotate... Tough job without an inverter... But possible.. | ||
| Glitch |
I have yet to ride an XB12R or S or an XB9R  Man alive! You are in for a treat! I don't know why I took it for granted you had. I can't wait to hear your report. A suggestion: While Keith isn't looking...  | ||
| Blake |
Kevin, I cannot imagine why a squirrel cage fan could not be run by the same exact DC motor powering the existing propeller style fan. Mount motor to fan shaft/housing, supply power, air moves. What am I missing? Pretty sure the heater/vent fan in my truck is of the squirrel cage form. David, I've ridden Keith's XB9S. That's the only XB I've ridden though. | ||
| Freyke |
Blake, I think we're just mixing up terminology... Squirrel cage motors Above is real good link describing such motors.. virtually all auto/motorcyle electrics run on DC power... Even though electric auto power since about the 1970s has been generated by an alternator (due to the advent of diodes), this is then rectified into DC for use by the vehicle... Squirrel Cage motors are typically inexpensive and very, very reliable... Its not unusual for to be in continuous operation 20 years or more with little or no maintanance.... DC motors on the other operate differently and are typically less reliable but have several advantages, chiefly the ability to vary rpms... Anyway, I think what you really ment was the physical design of the fan? In that case I assume you mean a axial fan or centrifugal blower.. these can be driven by either AC Induction (Squirrel Cage) or DC motors... See here... All you need to know about fans and blowers kk//kef | ||
| Outrider |
The only problems I can see with a "squirrel cage" fan (Blake's definition) is balance and material selection. Have to admit that a motorcycle is a hostile environment for one, but nothing a good engineer can't solve. Think the trick would be getting operations to pay for it. LOL | ||
| Whodom |
I think what Blake means is a centrifugal fan vice a propeller fan like the current XB fan. This page shows some typical industrial fan configurations: http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/farmbuildings/g1243.htm#types The XB fan noise level may mainly be a consequence of needing to move a lot of air with a relatively small fan. | ||
| Outrider |
Man, you just have to love engineers. Takes days to get them to agree on terminology, etc., while the concept gets so cold and diluted that the rest of the world (especially the marketing department) gives up an walks away (read: hires an outside design firm). Just kidding guys, but this "squirrel cage" issue reminded me of the biggest frustrations I have ever experienced in business. Not to mention, the term is a generic term used in many industries and as a marketeer (not to be confused with mouseketeer) I spec'd many blowers with squirrel cage fans and know (more accurately "knew" ) the pro's and con's of them quite well. LOL | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Eric, Good report! I have more pictures of the CityX, I'll post them tonight. I really liked the CityX ride postion. However I thought it felt a bit underpowered. The thing is so short you can hardly see the front of the bike while you are riding. Someone else said it before, it feels like you are flying. When I rode the 12S, I really liked everything about it except it was short!!! Then I figured out it was a 12S Low. I was wondering why it felt like I was dragging my knuckles. I wish they would have had a regular 12S to flog. I'll get the pictures up this evening. Oh yeah, the fans WERE annoying!!! At a stop light you could barely hear the motors/exhaust over the fan noise. Brad (Message edited by bluzm2 on August 03, 2004) | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
At one point on the CityX ride I leaned forward to look at the front end and could look straight down at the front tire rolling down the highway...kinda freaky to be able to do that! So Brad, did the 12S being low make it harder or easier to pull that wheelie on the demo ride?! I didn't get a chance to ride it because they closed up shop early but I second the motion for a better selection of bikes. They had lots of 12R's but no 9R and the only 12S was low. Oh well, I saw a few people who want one so the demo day worked! Have you not ridden an XB9 before? The race kit helps boost the power some, SPHD recommends it on every 9 they sell. | ||
| Freyke |
On my now "classic and extreamly rare"  yellow 03 XB9S w/ 9000Mi (broken-in) and running Mobil 1 15W-50 in both the engine and tranny it is very, very rare occasion when the fan comes on (regarless of ambient temp.) when the bike is running - only when stuck in traffic does it ever come on... Of course it does come on after the engine is stopped typically no more than 3 or four minutes... high speed then low, then off.... Synthetics are the shiznick!... kk/kef | ||
| Bluzm2 |
OK, As promised, here's the pictures of the "X" I thought it was was kind of funny the way each bike had a name. All female that I saw...... Eric, I'd ridden a 9R before but not an S. Yup! That front wheel must be defective! It sure came up easy!      | ||
| Barkandbite |
I want those graphics...they'd go perfectly on my blue 03....sweet. One call to Dave, comin' up! | ||
| Paulinoz |
"I thought it was was kind of funny the way each bike had a name. All female that I saw...... " Image of guy running demo ride, Sir would you like to have a ride on TREVOR or BOB just might get an un-welcome respose from the would be demo rider.  | ||
| Glitch |
I had almost forgotten how much I dislike the stock mirrors on the S models. | ||
| Outrider |
Nice review of the CityX on Motorcycle Online!!! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Paul, I never even though of that angle! I was thinking more on the line of "Hmmm, I think I'll hop on Rachael and take her for a ride...but, Betty is softer and easier to bend over...." | ||
| Midknyte |
Which one was sexier? Betty or Veronica? | ||
| Tripper |
Went up to our sponsoring dealer, Central HD Buell. This silly bike is kinda growing on me.   The seat is wonderful if you can afford the extra height. There hasn't been a seat this comfy since the 81 GS-850. It allows you to sit anywhere on it, not limiting you to a pocket area. Who will be the first one to put those wheels on a black 12R? | ||
| Bubabuell |
Just needs a Nallin big bore kit  Yeah, they're growing on me as well. I read there's a lighter crank. I wonder if revs a little quicker. | ||
| Odie |
That see thru stuff is the coolest; I just may have to save some money and find a distributor of that new see-thru paint!!!LOL | ||
| Aztec12r |
Who will be the first one to put those wheels on a black 12R? I like the black a lot. But that amber on the black 12 REALLY shows off NIIIIIIIICE! | ||
| Aztec12r |
I'm hoping for a see through "smoke" color. Just daydreaming. | ||
| Glitch |
Went and looked at the one just delivered to SMHD/Buell. Ya just gotta see it in person! Love the wheels. Being black makes the tires look huge! The seat, didn't get to ride it, but it sure feels like and all day ride could be a lot less painful. Got a headlamp guard waiting for me, I think they look way cool. Pete put one one his 12S already and it looks real good with his red body work. I've not seen it at night but Pete's riding it to bike night tonight, so then we'll find out how the flyscreen "glows". I'm thinkin' it must 'cause it's that close to the headlamp. |
