| Author |
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Outrider
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:15 pm: | 
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Can someone verify this?
I seem to recall reading that to race the VR1000 had to be licensed as a street bike. Apparently HD could not get it done in the USA but was finally able to get it legalized in Poland which satisfied the AMA requirement.
Fact or Fiction???? |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
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fact they did sell a sertin number of street vr1000 but they were all sold across the pond infact i dont think u could find one in the states unless built buy some personal person that got ahold of a vr 1000 race bike |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:40 pm: |
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My Guess, HD at some point in the near future, jumps head on, into the sportbike{street}scene.
re-vamped VR1000/V-rod type motor, six speed, full fairing, HD badged, sporting HD racing colors. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
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who knows what h-d was thinking and is planning (lets just hope it in some way favors us sport bike guys) |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 03:52 pm: |
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"And then we'll hang the huge muffler in the tail to slow down the handling more...
really slows those other rocket ship sportbikes down!!!"
And it does  . Every little bit helps. Again... Look up the terms "Polar Moment of Inertia" and "Angular Momentum".
"I'm not a cycle designer, But I hate the I can't attitude.. "
Buell has nothing of the sort... The whole XB is all about an "I can" attitude. It's not about "I can't" it's about "I don't wanna" because it would suck. It's about "I can make something better than a V-Rod powered XB, so I'm going to". I don't think you guys understand the whole point of the XB. It's a street bike (a near perfect one IMO) that is capable of being a great race bike (even legendary). Yeah, I do think we need a revamped engine, but I don't think it'll have too much in common with the V-Rod. I do think that we'll get to 60 degrees long before water cooling, and I think OHC's will be somewhere in between.
I truly think that if Buell wanted the V-Rod engine for the XB they would have had it. It's not right for the application. It's a cruiser engine, and a very good one. It is NOT, however, a sport bike engine. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 04:00 pm: |
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I wasn't talking about Buell as a company, just the Anonymous poster above.
Buell is "I can do it" pretty much full on.
Like I said, I am no expert, just a lover of motorcycles. It seems to me, if under the tail section mounted exhaust cans, or side mounted ones for that matter, were slowing up the Moto GP, AMA, WSB race bikes, they would be seeking new set ups.
Anyone know why no other bikes use the "Under Motor" exhaust mounting placement? |
420at145mph
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 04:08 pm: |
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cuz cops pull u over and start threatening to give u a ticket for not having an exhaust? |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 04:25 pm: |
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is that from experance 420???? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 04:57 pm: |
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"Anyone know why no other bikes use the "Under Motor" exhaust mounting placement?"
That's a good question.
Take a look at the videos on the Buell website to see why Buell does it though. |
Kaudette
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 05:20 pm: |
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So - with all the amazing Buell & HD knowledge out there can't we lay this one to rest once and for all?
Anony or otherwise, why can't we simply compare plant & tranny dimensions between the current VROD and a 12 plant??? Height, width, clearance requirements, mounting points, weight, belt alignment, intake requirements.
We get that, and we can VERY EASILY see how much it would take to at lease bolt the thing into a XB chassis - then the fund starts with CG & dynamics...
So, who's gonna kick this off? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 05:20 pm: |
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Gonen,
Buell twins gain significant added exhaust tract length due to the exhaust ports/headers exiting from the right side of the bike and curving and going forward around the front of the engine THEN aiming rearwards. That added length is necessary for optimum engine performance. The IL4 and other common racing engine configurations would ahve difficulty achieving adequate exhaust tract length AND locating the muffler underneath the engine.
Most non-Buell racing bikes utilize a wet sump crankcase, not much room for a muffler underneath the oil pan.
Integrating a muffler and tailpipe under the bike within the race required belly pan is difficult maybe even impossible for wet sump bikes.
And finally, for racing, a tailpipe that does not aim the exhaust blast(s) into the wake of the bike is not aerodynamically optimum; that is more an issue as speeds increase.
What is great for the street is not necessarily great for the track. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 05:31 pm: |
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a couple of the Guzzi semi-production bikes use the under-motor exhaust position, as do a number of non-running show bikes -- the advantages are well understood, but, as Blake sez, many wet sump envisable gines are too big, vertically, to allow the room
that, and motorcyclists tend to be a conservative lot, and a lack of highly pipes may put some purchasers off (specially if they don't get the engineering) |
Boulderbiker
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 05:32 pm: |
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Gonen60, don't forget the new sportbike that KTM is soon to release, with of all things an under the engine exhaust. What purpose does it serve to run it up high? There are two reasons, one is in racing where every nanosecond counts it helps to fill the drag pocket behind you, what better to do it with than the exhaust of your bike, this is mostly only helpful on those stretches where you're approaching 200mph and aerodynamics are HUGE. The other is because it looks "cool" (to some, myself not included). Other than those two reasons if you've got space for it lower down, then why not do so. Most people who own Buell's and get the "streetbike" mentallity aren't relying on aerodynamics even close to enough to care about where you're exhaust gas is shooting out and if its helping to fill the drag pocket. What we care about is flickability for those curvy backroads and the torque to make it simple easy and fun to apply the power. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 05:37 pm: |
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Blake - I understand the low pressure area behind a bike (errrr, well, somewhat anyway ). Don't the rest of the aerdynamics and the fact that we aren't braking the wind with an IL4 (we only have one round cyl doing the real cutting) mean that the XB doesn't need that exhaust placement? As I recall, a good deal of the air from the front of the bike is directed right to the fan and coil-over and then right above the rear tire. This should help immensely with the whole "driving around in front of a vacuum cleaner" effect yes? |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 06:02 pm: |
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M1, Honda actually found out through extensive testing that the angle of the exhaust tips could have an affect on the bikes speed. If they were simply perpendicular to the pipe & the pipe is upswept as on most side mounted systems the exhaust would alter the airflow behind the bike & would actually slow the bike down. Thats why you now see exhaust tips that are angled more to go with the air flow. |
Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
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the angled exhaust outlet makes a big deal...atleats when we were making the drummer it sure did. hence no dual outlet. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 06:57 pm: |
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Gotcha - I am thinking that Blake was referring to the low pressure area under the tail though. Air can't generally get to that area which creates a low pressure zone. It's like driving around in front of a big vacuum cleaner. On the Buell, a lot of the air from the front of the bike is channeled into that space. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 09:43 pm: |
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Blake/boulder great info, thanks! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 11:53 pm: |
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Drag pocket... That's what I was trying to say . |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 03:37 pm: |
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M1,
The exhaust shooting either upwards as Dyna mentioned or outwards as on a Buell has a detrimental effect on aerodynamics at high speeds, in effect making the bike seem bigger to the airstream and thus increasing aerodynamic drag. And like Dyna said, shooting the exhaust straight out the back of the bike instead of being a detrimental aerodynamic effect actually is a beneficial effect. These effects are not important at street speeds, but on the track at 150+ mph, they may be significant. |
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