| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Budo: Well put. Opinions I may not agree with, but RESPECT. Thanks dude! Court | ||
| Budo |
As I sit here re-reading these posts and considering the other things that I have read over the past seven or eight years on this board and others, I have come to a conclusion. Buell or perhaps HD does not want to build a Ducati Monster competative bike. It may be that they do not want to commit the financial resources to create such a machine. Clearly they could if they wanted to. Look at the V-ROD! So, why hold back? I have read that the V-ROD is selling well so they might expect a real world (meaning 100hp at the rear wheel) Buell to sell well. After all we the faithfull few have been begging for such a bike for seven or eight years. Why not build it? Take a Ducati Monster S4 and slap Buell on the tank. Would you buy it? In spite of my previous experiences I would actually buy one. So, what is the problem? Surley there is someone reading this that has access to inside information that can answer this question with some certainty. | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
Budo, I think may have something there with the specialty builder thing. Look on the Quickboard for the production numbers that JQ posted. It's a bit sobering. The numbers are not there for HD to expect anything bigger out of Buell. I'm happy with my 9. But when the time comes for a change and something comes along that tickles my fancy more than what Buell has to offer I 'll be riding somethin' else. I'm just glad that this isn't the year for me to make a change! | ||
| Jasonblue |
I just can't believe what I'm hearing. Before that bike was unveiled every one loved their Buells because they are "different in every sense". I guess now it should read "different in every sense, but not too different". Give me a break. For the record I love the bike, makes me think Road Warrior instead of Streetfighter. In fact I already ordered the bars and light gaurd from Daves, Thanx Bro! I'm not ashamed. I've already said it, alot of you will change your tune when you see one. I mean really, how many of you have seen pictures of a new car model and ripped it apart only to start admiring it from afar after actually seeing one. Hell maybe some of you ended up buying what you first thought was hiddeous? Anyone, anyone? | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
I love my Buell. What I'm saying is that if I had the itch to replace my 9 today, it wouldn't be with another Buell. The 12S isn't that much different from what I have, the 9/12R aren't my cup of tea, and the city is a sideways step. I didn't expect anything radical to change this model year anyways. So, if I were to change TODAY, it would be on something else. In the meantime I'll ride my Buell every chance I get with a sh** eatin' grin! | ||
| Gusmyster |
I'm with Jason on this one. There are like 3 Buells in my area. And I seemed to be shunned by every other type of bike around, including HD (which I own 2 of). I have friends who are always quot'n stats and ••••. I've given up trying to xplain it. "different in every sense" is pretty much how I like to live my life and is influenced with my ride. I say go for it Erik! g u s | ||
| Budo |
Jasonblue, re-read my posts and others please. I don't have an issue with the appearance or styling of the bike, well not much anyway. Since the XB costs as much (for the most part) as a Ducati Monster or a Aprilla Tuono, and soon to be released KTM superduke. I want that kind of power! As it is, for me, the XB12 is underpowered and overpriced. That is me and yes I have ridden a XB12 and found it to be grossely underpowered compared to my old S1W after I had rebuilt the motor. I know alot of folks are real happy with their bikes and that is fine for them. But I want 100hp to the ground, or more, and as much torque as I can get, because torque is our friend. I don't care about the fuel in the frame, oil in the swing arm or the large perimter brake. All that is window dressing and means less than nothing to me. I want a real motor, period! Also a larger motorcycle would be nice, since I am kinda big. Well, at least not small. Comparing apples to apples, V-twins costing $10K to $12k, look at the XB12's competation. Sure I would prefer to have a bike that is for the most part built here and is assembled here, but not if I have to give up 15hp to 20hp! I also will not spend that kinda $$ and put another $3k or so in it just to get it to run the way it should have in the first place. I did that once already with my S1W. As always YMMV. | ||
| Barkandbite |
So many of you are missing the point here. Because I don't like the new model doesn't mean I don't like the one I have. I love the one I have. There is absolutely nothing in the new lineup that would entice me to updgrade -- not even to the 12, and that's a dumb strategy for Buell to adopt since new bike sales numbers are so low -- you MUST capitalize on your captive market and they are not; if someone has a 9 or 12 today, short of buying some stick on bits, there's not ONE reason that someone would upgrade the entire bike! I think it's terrific that people like the handguards and light thingies, I don't. "Different in every sense" doesn't mean you have to be all things to all people. The marketed effort of these bikes were "streetfighters." Now they're "Street-motocrosser-fighters." You don't think people will be confused? It's weird enough to see a sport bike in a Harley dealer, now you'll see things that look like dirtbikes too...and the Harley dealers (since most of them are neanderthals) are going to laugh these things off the floor. I could be wrong. I have been before. Hey, I wish Buell the best of luck. I need them to stay around -- I need replacement parts. Chris | ||
| Jasonblue |
What? You must capitalize on your captive market? So Buell should consentrate selling bikes to people who already own Buells? That, my friend is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard on this board! I can here Erik at a board meeting, "Well guys, sinse new bike sales are down, I think we should focus on selling Buells to people who just bought one last year or the year before." Are you delusional dude? Who the hell does that? Thank GOD you are not running the company. And I think you have to give the general public a little credit as far as "confusing them". The bike has got a few things on it that makes it look a LITTLE different, some will like it, some won't. I don't think people are gong to say "Watch out for that bike little Timmy, that thing is freakin me out!" | ||
| Jasonblue |
Budo, I'm not singling you out. I just don't understand why people are so surprised at what was offered this year. Others have said it. In 02' we got a whole new platform, in 04' we got a new engine, see a pattern here? Evey 2 years? Buell is reinventing itself and I think they are making good progress. Contrary to what some of you whiners think. And for the record Budo, I'm right their with you on the hp/tq issue, I just think its gonna take a little more time. | ||
| Benm2 |
In 04, we got the same engine with a new crank. Last year, the Kawasaki ZX6RR had its backside handed to it on the track. This year, its got a new head. Buell, on the other hand, has made the Toys-R-Us version of the XB. I still hope for a mid-year introduction of an XB1350RR, but I'll hang onto my M2 for now. Attracting new buyers? I'm sorry, I just don't see the market, but that's not my job as many will shortly point out. I've seen the promised land, two beautiful machined aluminum velocity stacks rising above a fully faired XB. Alas, I couldn't buy those parts even if I had an XB. I've got to beleive the Formula Extreme team has a point, but I can't believe that translucent plastic is it. | ||
| Gonen60 |
What? You must capitalize on your captive market? So Buell should consentrate selling bikes to people who already own Buells? That, my friend is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard on this board! I can here Erik at a board meeting, "Well guys, sinse new bike sales are down, I think we should focus on selling Buells to people who just bought one last year or the year before." Are you delusional dude? Who the hell does that? Thank GOD you are not running the company. so what are you saying..Buell said to his R&D staff "lets alienate a large group of current customers, and target the "CityCross" crowd" come on now...I am so happy the XB is running formula Xtreme, and doing well at it. I would like to see some of the R&D trickle down from the race bikes to us street riders. if I want to ride motocross I will buy a motocross bike. like I said before, the XB/SX is a dress up, not a build up. of course this is just me, and I mean not ill will towards the company or people who dig it. | ||
| Blake |
"Alas, I couldn't buy those parts even if I had an XB." Why not? RRW has an article on the Hal's FX Buell machines. Says you can own one for around $20K. I don't think they are out to avoid selling racing parts. | ||
| Jasonblue |
Alienation? Buell didn't stop making everything else except the CityX. Look at all the segments of motorcycles from every other manufacturer. Except HD of course. When Honda started out all they made were those scooter lookin things, now they make everything under the sun. Sure Buell is never going to have that broad of a spectrum, but its not ALIENATION its DIVERSIFICATION. People have to accept Buell for what it is, a small company with limited funds competing against Mega corperations with throw away money. Can't make everyone happy all the time. | ||
| Gonen60 |
People have to accept Buell for what it is, a small company with limited funds competing against Mega corperations with throw away money. your 100% correct, that is why I would rather see time and money put into building a better sportbike each and every year..not veering off into citycross land | ||
| Jasonblue |
I wonder if BMW enthusiasts freaked out when they came out with their first "dual sport". I seem to remember people getting their panties in a bunch with the look of the Multistrada. Or how about the Triumphs and that Tiger thing. The CityX will come out, it will find its "niche", and people will get over it until the next big dissappointment comes around. | ||
| Jasonblue |
How much time and money do you think it took to develope the CityX? Its only a few cosmetic items, that may or may not bring more people into the Buell fold. Personally I think it will, which will give Buell more money and resourses to develope a better sport bike. I'll bet the bank that's where the real time and money IS going. To the developement of a better sport bike, they are just not doing it fast enough for you and alot of others it seems. | ||
| Wrswthrstate |
Gonen, It doesn't appear that Buell stuck a lot of time or money into creating the CityX. I doubt the engineers at Buell are sitting on their hands or have been for the last year. They are probably doing research and development on the next line or generation of bikes, yet to be seen.  | ||
| Wrswthrstate |
Took the words right out of my mouth, apparently I am a little slow today. | ||
| Elvis |
All the focus on the XB9SX takes away from the real story which is that Buell continues to produce better, less expensive, more competitive bikes each year. For a company Buell's size, that's what they have to do before they try to be everything to everyone. Two years ago they took a big leap in Qaulity and performance with the introduction of the XB's. Last year they moved performance ahead with the 12's, continued to improve quality and reduced prices. Now that they've got a solid platform they continued with cost reduction this year, and it's a good bet that the 2004 XB's, in addition to being the least expensive V-twin Buells ever, will also be the most reliable. As an added bonus they threw in a quirky little styling excercise called XB9SX. The fact that so many people are talking about it shows that they hit some nerve, and that can only be good for a company the size of Buell that needs to get noticed. The CityX likely won't be produced in such large numbers that anyone who doesn't like it will be forced to buy it, so what does it hurt? | ||
| Barkandbite |
Jason "I'm Lou Gerstner" Blue said: You must capitalize on your captive market? So Buell should consentrate selling bikes to people who already own Buells? That, my friend is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard on this board! I can here Erik at a board meeting, "Well guys, sinse new bike sales are down, I think we should focus on selling Buells to people who just bought one last year or the year before." Are you delusional dude? Who the hell does that? Thank GOD you are not running the company. It said CAPITALIZE you dolt, not focus, and YOU added the interpretation. At least nut up enough to not embellish the damned post. Even my 8 year old aruges more honorably than that. You need to understand the definition of a word before you start spouting off as though you actually know what the hell you're talking about. You pushed the 'go' button on this one... Here is the definition of capitalize: To turn something to one's advantage; benefit: capitalize on an opponent's error. See Synonyms at benefit So, for the short-bus readers, that means you should use your existing customer base to mine and boost turn-over sales; conversions in both bike purcahses and accessories/upgrades are much more heavily weighted in margin since the cost of sales is so much less. 'course you already know this... And as to your other question, every auto maker in the world does this -- they are not interested in selling you one car, once. Rather they want to sell/upgrade you cars throughout the sales relationship lifecycle. If you could manage to understand this concept, you would realize that what plauges the current line up of XB's is NOT the lack of see-through body panels or stupid freaking hand grips, but a klunky old transmission and an aging powerplant. By CAPITALIZING on and IMPROVING the line with a solid powerplant/tranny combo, you will not only capture upgrade customers, but you'll sway I4 Japanese/Italian buyers. The next time you feel the need to berate someone, at least take the time to understand the words in the post. And as to my skillsets in the Corporate world, don't open your mouth any wider because you're certainly not going to be able to fit much more of a bigger shoe in it that you already have. This is the Internet, son...you don't know me, or what I do, from Adam. Monkey. edited by Barkandbite on July 16, 2004 | ||
| Socoken |
I want 100hp to the ground, or more, ... I don't care about the fuel in the frame, oil in the swing arm or the large perimter brake. All that is window dressing and means less than nothing to me. I want a real motor, period! just go buy a damn tuono or a speed 3 or a superhawk or an RC51 or a ducati. you people amaze me. i sincerely think some of you made great big mistakes buying Buells, and you are just bitter about it. but i do have some good news, its not a permanent mistake!!! Fix it !!!!!! Dyna did, and hes so happy he did he cant stop gloating. that is the reason you ride, right? happiness? youve got the right to pursue it!! but bitching aint the way there, i hate to break it to you. | ||
| Lightisright |
I think the tires on the new bike are the same (pattern) used on the Ducati Multi-Strada. I'm really suprised because Harley and Buell have always been 100% Dunlop sourced. I'm sure Dunlop could have came up with a tread pattern with the right look. Marketing must have wanted the image of the Pirelli but...we might see more non-Dunlop tires on Harley/Buells in the future. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
its not a permanent mistake!!! Fix it !!!!!! Dyna did, and hes so happy he did he cant stop gloating.  | ||
| Jasonblue |
Monkey, thats a good one. Buells priority right now should be to expand their captive market. Frankly they don't have much of one right now, compairitively speaking. Build then capitalize. I think you may have been to busy writing and rewriting your last post to read my subsequent posts. Wanted to get it just right didn't ya. Even auto manufacturers don't change a model year after year, and on average a person buys a new car every 5 years. My guess is that it is quite a bit longer than that with motorcycle owners. So what are you saying Buell SHOULD have done this year. ONE year after the release of the 12r and s. I'm curious what such a fine tuned mind would have done, being a short-bus reader and all. One more question, what does the world look like seeing it in such a bright shade of red. Sounds like I didn't just push that button, I must have whacked it with a baseball bat......Son. | ||
| S1eric |
I actually like the new XB9XS. Yes its different, And thats what I like about it. But why put the 9 motor in it? If it had the 12 motor I would buy one. It looks like i`m keeping the S1,s for a while longer. S1Eric 97S1 98S1W | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
i think buell is doing a good job in all though there bikes maybe could use more hp but then again thats what makes owning a bike that is different fun you can find that extra hp your self if u try hard enuff wich in turn makes your bike even more different my best freind owns a gsxr 600 and i despise it cuz it looks just like every other sport bike on the road yet my xb9r is so much different and when we pull in some were people look at my bike not his and i rally like that but thats just one of the many reasons i like buell motor cycles that and they still keep the heart of a harley which kept my dad from disowning me | ||
| Barkandbite |
Jason: I edited the E-Mail above when I realized that calling you a jacka$$ on Badweb might be a little much. I edited this one due to the explanation below. I can see I was wrong. At first it was lowercase. I see now I should just stick with my gut. Here's how it initially read: JACKA$$ I've already spelled out what I thought they should have done; three times. You're too busy trying to look smart to read the posts. The only reason I'm seeing red is because of my rose-tinted glasses...people like you who argue by bringing no tech, hyperbole and ignorance make me feel much better about myself. I'm done with you. {edit} Blake: Go ahead and delete/edit/censor this post; this troll is simply ignoring the content of posts and doing a fine job of avoiding anything resembling logic. I apologize, he's just done a fine job of pushing the smackdown button. edited by Barkandbite on July 16, 2004 | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
My 2 cents... Buell still has three basic lines: Blast, Lightning, Firebolt - nothing wrong with that. Sure the 9SX is a styling makeover, but it differentiates it from the XB12S, and makes it appear like a model in its own right, rather than just a 12 with a smaller motor. I'd agree with some of the comments above - the XB9SX wouldn't have taken a huge amount of resources, and I'd guess other things are being developed, but maybe not 'til 2006... Re Buells and horsepower/torque, at least Buell make it easy (IMO) - buy the bike, add race module/exhaust if you want to. No stuffing around with power commanders... | ||
| Two_buells |
The post above makes sense. When I got my first S1 in 1996, being a ex Motocrosser, I thought my S1 was a 1203cc MX bike for the street! It made riding on the street and backroads fun! Now after owning 6 Buells and nearly 100,000 Buell miles later My XB9R, S3 and 98 S1 still puts a smile on my face everytime I ride them. for the record, I love the XB9 CityX. Way cool Buell! Buell Demos will be at Carlisle Summer Bike fest next weekend and I hope to see a CityX in person. OH! BattleTrax at Carlisle also.... http://pabattletrax.home.att.net |
