| Author |
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Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:26 pm: | 
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BADs1 the older ones are not water cooled this you are right on :-) they are OIL cooled and what LITTLE air gets in to help and THEY dont run and never did run on SYN i`m sorry to say :-) |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:28 pm: |
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BADS1 two wrongs don``t make a RIGHT roflmao :_)
all in good fun BADS1 :-)) |
Bads1
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:29 pm: |
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Hmmm are you a Porsche tech. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:33 pm: |
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bads no i am not :-) but i do owned and rebuilt from the floor up a 1969 e model 911 , also rebuilt a 1972 s modell 911, and have a 1971 e converted to a s model so I do atleast know how those ones are cooled :-) |
Gearhead
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:28 pm: |
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After a lot of research I have to agree that any synthetic oil is an improvement for a variety of reasons.
Brucelee commented that the HD synthetic oil does not carry an API rating but neither does it's conventional 20W50 oil which I'm sure is a liability issue more that anything. How many hard core Harley guys would say "If it's good enough for my Hog it's good enough to put in the pick-up."
I agree the the API rating is the best way to identify a quality oil but as we all know Harley Davidson is not in the oil business so who ever is manufacturing Syn-3 has done their homework.
Any of the current popular synthetic oils are going to be an improvement, brand loyalty is just that. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:45 pm: |
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"Who ever is manufacturing the syn.3 for HD has done there homework"???
That would be Citgo!!! |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:49 pm: |
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Citgo makes or at least used to make their conventional oil.
I had heard that they werent HD's supplier for the syn. |
Gearhead
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:17 am: |
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Exactly my point, there are VERY few oil manufacturers out there.
Regardless of your brand preference, Motul, Mobil 1, Syn-3, etc. changing to synthetic oil is a smart move. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:18 am: |
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Nope last year when it was intoduced,I was in Milwuakee for P.O.T. training for BRAG and HOG and that question was asked there to one of the big shots forgot the name but anyhow he told us that was the maker. |
Dcmortalcoil
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 01:33 am: |
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Rampant misconception - from what I read and studied - synthetics are NOT slipper than dyno. So breaking period and use of synthetics got no correlation. In other words, you can use synthetics during the break-in period. The major benefit of synthetics is the ability to transfer heat & retain their shear properties better than dynos. Slipperieness can be enhanced with friction modifiers, for both synthetics and dyno.
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Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 09:50 am: |
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According to my oil engineer buddy on the VFR site, Citgo does make the Syn 3 and he has rated is as an excellent oil with solid additives.
He also reminded me that HD themselves officially states that the Syn 3 can be used during break in. This is what my dealer told me also.
So, according to ROME, we may all use syn during break in.
God bless us all, everyone! |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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BTW-switching to this oil at the next change!
Red Line 20W60 HD
Specially formulated to meet and exceed the high performance needs of modified Harley Davidson motorcycle engines.
RED116 - Red Line 20W60 HD Engine Oil - $7.95 per quart
RED116C - Red Line 20W60 HD Engine Oil - $85.86 per 12 quart case
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Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:11 am: |
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All this talk on oil is too muchhhhhhhhhh... Just be careful with redline for the street on a stock engine unless they have a new line as their oil is great FOR HIGH PErformance hard to beat.. where one changes it after ever race like in TOP FUEl or Quarter mile DRags.. Not up on their street oils tough..WE ran it in TOP Fuel HD`s the best one can use .. but we also drained it after ever one :-))) just food for thought :-)) |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:17 am: |
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They make this viscosity in both race and street forms. I am going with the street versions for exactly the reasons you stated.
Thanks
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Odie
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:36 am: |
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Page 1-1 of 2004 Lightning Service Manual, and I quote: "CAUTION- During the initial break-in period, use only Harley-Davidson 20W50 engine oil. Failure to use the recommended oil will result in improper break-in of the engine cylinders and piston rings. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:10 pm: |
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Hmmm, let's see, do I want to pay for HD oil 20W50 or would I rather pick up some oil from wal mart made by ohhhh, Mobil 1 or Valvoline (not synthetic mind you) and pay way less for break in... I think I'll go with wally world myself and save some cash. There's nothing special about HD oil over the others. |
Odie
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:25 pm: |
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Never said there was. Just quoting the manual. I think most reasonable people, and you seem to be one, would figure out that 20W50 is just about 20W50 is just about 20W50.......I was making the point about SYN'S! |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 03:59 pm: |
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Ah, well, I myself swear by syn's so I would probably do the 1000 mile break in and then switch. Personally I would prefer to jump to syn right off the bat but to keep the warrenty... |
Johnnyrfast
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:19 am: |
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Now this I cannot understand, you are prepared to spend a huge amount of dollars for a new bike, but you are not prepared to spend 100 dollars or more on the manufacturers recommended oil, hell man, call me what you will, I ride my XB12R like I stole it, but I sure as hell make sure that the warranty will be honoured by having HD maintain it, lube it and clean it, I know I can probably save a about 100 dollars by doing it myself, but I rather put the ball back in HD's court than leaving it in mine...PS. mine just had it's 1000 mile service and I let them replace the oil with SYN-3. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:07 am: |
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I don't know about the wisdom of relying on HD for support on warranty items. Based on the collective experience that I see here, when your Buell develops an issue, the dealers will look for every out to have YOU pay for it.
I am going through this right now on my XB and it is clear that they WILL pay for stuff if they HAVE TOO!
Otherwise, we will be arguing for sure.
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Johnnyrfast
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:38 am: |
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Well being in South Africa, I am really a bit short on choices, it is either the HD dealer or the guy on the corner with a 10 pound hammer and chisel... |
984_cc
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:11 pm: |
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You people are wiseacres. |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:47 pm: |
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Personally I would prefer to jump to syn right off the bat but to keep the warrenty...
You can switch to synthetic right off the bat. Your warranty can't legally be voided for using a synthetic alternative to the manufacturer recommended oil. The dealer telling you that is a liar. Do a search on Magnusson Moss Act here on BadWeb.
Mike. |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:05 pm: |
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Pat McGivern aka "MotoMan" is someone who advocates a "ride it hard" break-in procedure on his website: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I don't know that he actually provides scientific proof that it works, but it's worth a look. Curiously, he is still "old school" when it comes to the petroleum vs. synthetic debate and recommends only petroleum car oil for break-in. He even goes so far as to recommend removing synthetic and putting in petroleum for vehicles that come from the factory with synthetic.
Mike. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:44 pm: |
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IMHO that guys is a dumbarse. I will take the engineers recommendation for break in over his anyday. Weither or not they make just a generic one for all of what they make. Is it really worth the risk of taking his claim and screwing up your bike with an improper breakin? I know there are those who have done that from day one with no problems but how many have done that and ended up with problems? |
Johncr250
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 04:52 pm: |
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I`ve used HD Syn 3 in my XB since it had 5 miles on it.
Stated right on the container approved for HD and Buell in any state of engine life including breakin.
Also says the same thing in the HD/Buell parts manuals, "recommended for breakin."
My dealer also recommends it for initial breakin also.
Also don`t the Screaming Eagle Harley`s come stock with synthetic right from HD?
Bottom line all of the current synthetics are good stuff and will not prevent your motor from breaking in right. |
Odie
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 06:00 pm: |
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I'm soooooooooooooooo confused!!!!! Especially since I have to break in yet another motor..... |
Stealthxb
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 06:02 pm: |
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Wait until the 1000 mile service and switch to synthetic. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 08:19 pm: |
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That is what I did.
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R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 09:40 pm: |
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I ride my XB12R like I stole it, but I sure as hell make sure that the warranty will be honoured by having HD maintain it, lube it and clean it, I know I can probably save a about 100 dollars by doing it myself, but I rather put the ball back in HD's court than leaving it in mine
Johnny, I am in agreement with you on this. Right now I have done 2 oil changes on my R1 & both of them have used the Yamaha oil & filter as suggested. I kept the receipts & noted the mileage. Sure I could probably save myself about $10 every oil change, but looking at the big picture that isnt crap & I blow more than that on lunch for myself in a day.
Use their oil & filters & its 1 less thing that can be used against you in event of a problem. Yes I am well aware of the Moss act, but I would rather head it off going that route before it even becomes a problem. |
