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Aydenxb9
| Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:02 pm: |
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Well, it's 2 in a row for Andrew Hines on the Screamin'Eagle V-Rod today in Englishtown. Did it in style, covering the field by nearly .15 lowering both the national E.T. and Speed records with a best of a 7.02 @ 192 mph blast in the final. Fred Collis on the Start Racing Buell qualified 8th and lost in the second round to Andrew. Who'd thunk that these bikes would ever have anything for the IL-4 contingent, but I like seeing it happen, I like it a lot! |
Ftd
| Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:17 pm: |
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They'll be in the 6's real soon! |
Blake
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:30 am: |
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That is great! What best time did the "Buell" entry achieve? |
Ftd
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:02 am: |
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Buell ran a 7.12 last week and qualified 2nd. Lost first round with a tranny issue. Qualified 8th this week with a 7.2-. Won first round but raced Hines in second. Ran well but Hines was unbeatable. GT red lighted (again). What is with him?? |
Ftd
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:05 am: |
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Check out the race info: http://nhra.com/2004/events/race11/results/sunday_psb.html |
Kenb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:15 am: |
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I have a question, the Buell is an S&S engine. Does any body know the configuration ? The v-Rods are 60° OHC 8 valve twins but I have no idea what the Buell/S&S is. They won some best engineering awards for the bike so I'm curious what is lurking in their engine bay. |
Jeffb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:45 am: |
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Actually, the PS Vrod engine has NOTHING in common with the street engine other than the V angle. It is a pushrod 2 valve air cooled engine. The S&S is also a 60 deg. It is a 4 cam pushrod engine with integral transmission. Pretty much the coolest frickin' aircooled engine around. Here are some pictures of the Vrod I took at the Indy dealer show last winter. Jeff
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Kenb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:41 pm: |
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well now that's interesting. What are all those pulleys driving on the v-rod engine ? |
Kenb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
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looking at the pictures a little more I see that there is a pulley on the left side for the front cylinder and one on the right for the rear cylinder. I assume this is for the cams but not high enough up to be truly overhead. Do they use a mid mounted cam with short pushrods ? sounds wierd but what else could that pulley in the closeup picture be running ? The pulley going to the rear runs the fuel pump I guess ? Cool pictures none the less but just raises more questions. |
Jeffb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:52 pm: |
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Here is one more I missed the first time.
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Jeffb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:12 pm: |
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Here are a couple of pics of Fred on the S&S/G2 Buell.
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Socoken
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:16 pm: |
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that is so cool, ive seen airplanes with smaller air scoops than that! |
Kenb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:33 pm: |
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that right side picture of the engine confirms that's the cam pulley. sits next to the cylinder. I wonder why, maybe easier to tear down. gotta love where the front exhaust dumps out |
Blake
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
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Ken, Read Jeff's post above... "pushrod engine". |
Jeffb
| Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:37 pm: |
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You are both right, I think. The rules say you must run pushrods. However, you can move the cams up the cylinder in order to shorten the pushrods and reduce deflection for improved valve control. So it is kind of a high-bread created by stretching the rules. I haven't seen inside the V&H engine, so I am just guessing. Details on the S&S engine will be posted somewhere I am sure. The NHRA rules say it is a max 160" @ 60 deg, requires pushrods and can only have 2 valves per head. Check out dragbike.com. G2 been posting some info there. Jeff |
Benm2
| Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:48 am: |
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There was an article in one of the major US magazines about the V&H bike over a year ago. It is pushrod, and it is using the rules to their fullest advantage. I think that V&H also pressured the NHRA into increasing the displacement limit for pushrod twins in the class during their first year.
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Kenb
| Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:01 am: |
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Blake, I understand it is a pushrod motor but looking at the pictures and those pulleys, says to me it isn't a traditional HD layout; sportster, evo big twin, or twin cam. Don't matter to me either way, I'm watching drag racing just to see how the twins do now ! I read some of George Bryce's comments on dragbike and he alludes to the fact that the S and S motor uses a cam layout similar to the sportster engine. the displacement limits for the twins is 160 ci the inline 4s get limited to 92 ci. |
Kenb
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 01:59 pm: |
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found a picture of the g squared engine; http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/articlefiles/495-star02.jpg |
Jeffb
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:18 pm: |
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Cool. I hadn't seen that article. Here is a link to the article and more info on the engine. http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/templates/news_template.asp?articleid=495&zoneid= 2 Jeff |
Kenb
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:44 pm: |
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After Hines ran away with things over the last 2 weeks they bumped the weight up to 615lbs for the v twins from 575. So now they actually have a weight disadvantage on the 4s |
Aydenxb9
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 06:46 pm: |
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Is H-D/Buell going to become the motorcycle equivalent of the former Chrysler Corp. in NHRA? Kinda looks that way. |
José_quiñones
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:51 pm: |
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quote:The fan response to the Screamin’ Eagle/Vance & Hines V-Rods has been unsurpassed and Harley Davidson (AKA The Motor Company) and it’s aftermarket performance arm, Screamin’ Eagle, have made it known that the NHRA is in their long-term marketing plans
The AMA sure misses the VR1000 Superbike precisely for this reason, it brought a lot of HD fans to the track. The AMA FX Buells are not getting that amount of attention from the HD fans yet. If they can get closer to the front and get more TV coverage on Speed it will surely help. |
José_quiñones
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:05 pm: |
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quote:DBC: V-Twin Pro Stock motors up to this point have been of a 45 degree design. This new motor is a 60 degree motor. What is the benefit of a 60 degree motor? GS: At 60 degrees you increase the spread between the cylinders which presents more room for the intake track. The other thing it does is it decreases the piston-to-piston contact at the bottom of the stroke because both cylinders operate off a common throw. At the bottom of the throw the tighter the V is the sooner the pistons will hit each other. By increasing the V you can run a larger bore and shorter stroke which allows you to run shorter push rods. You can shorten up the whole motor. Having shorter push rods gives less reciprocating weight but the main reason is the push rod is more rigid and the possibility for flex is decreased so the valve will more likely follow the cam. You will notice on the Screamin’ Eagle entry they moved the cams up to shorten the push rods and they operate the cams with a belt. We have a traditional gear drive within the cam case on ours and longer push rods. These engines are all air pumps. The team that can get the most air through their motor is most likely the ones who are going to win. We need the best valve train that we can get to get the most air into the motor so we have a chance so that we can make enough power so we can compete. GBIII: To add to that, we needed the 60 degree motor so we could go with a big bore. The only reason you need big bore is so you can put big valves in it.
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José_quiñones
| Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:08 pm: |
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My favorite quote of the whole article
quote:DBC: What is your overall plan for this project? GS: S&S is making these motors to sell. We have orders for five right now. Those guys are confident that performance potential is there. As we prove what the potential is, we will get more orders. The interesting thing is that while the Vance & Hines bikes are running real well I am surprised that there aren’t any others out there yet. I wonder why they have been so hesitant to sell whatever package they have. Make no mistake about it. G2 Motorsports is racing this bike but we are in the business of selling these motors and this technology. When we went through the approval process the NHRA said “you have to be able to sell these to people”. We told them that is why we were doing it. GBIII: If you are going to sell something you are going to have to let people look at them and they aren’t showing them to anybody so I am sure they are not interested in selling them. We invite everybody to look at every part of the motor because they are available to the public. S&S races what they sell and sell what they race.
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Blake
| Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:04 am: |
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Too bad HRC doesn't operate the same way huh? Is that what you are thinking? |
Rocketman
| Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:33 am: |
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Blake, if you're racing Superstock or Superbike, be it at national or world level, HRC sell their race kit to Joe Public. You want that Ken Take 201mph Fireblade in road going or Superbike racing trim, for about £20000 Ken Take will build you one and it is reliant upon HRC's Race Kit. Rocket |
José_quiñones
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 07:19 am: |
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HRC? No, HD and BMC. |
Ftd
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 07:50 am: |
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VRods and Buell all qualified but did not run so well this week (7.30's). The extra weight affected them tremendously. They have some work to do to get back to where they were. |
Blake
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:30 pm: |
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JQ, I'm pretty sure that either Hals or Kosko will gladly help you get exactly the same parts that they use in their racing bikes. Try getting the racing parts from HRC that comprise the fully raced prepped superbikes that propel Ben and Miguel down the track. Your view of things is strangely inaccurate. Rocket, Yep. And for £20000, I'm sure Cycle-Rama or NRHS or Hal's, or Kosko/Richard Cronrath will be happy to build you an FX calibre racing Buell. José imagines some great disparity where none exists. It just takes money, no matter the manufacturer or race team.
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Mikej
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:36 pm: |
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Blake, For reasons not open to public discussion JQ might not be able to get exactly the same parts used on the race bikes. Some? Yes. All? No. |
R1DynaSquid
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:43 pm: |
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For reasons not open to public discussion JQ might not be able to get exactly the same parts used on the race bikes. Some? Yes. All? No. Damn straight on that. Some are actually made out of unobtanium & no matter how much you wave, they will just tell you no such part exists. |
José_quiñones
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:45 pm: |
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That quote is pretty clear and accurate, S&S/G2 are taking a shot at the HD V&H program and how they are running it, which is in the same spirit that HD has run their racing programs in the past (Blast Dirt Tracker, VR1000) and Buell has to a lesser degree, where they don't sell what they race or race what they sell. They don't mention Honda or HRC ever in that article, they are not drag racing against them they are racing against HD. Where do you find a reference to HRC in that article to bring them in to this discussion? I quoted that simply because I agree with what S&S and G2 Motorsports are saying. More power to them. |
Mikej
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:47 pm: |
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Sometimes a "no" can be turned into a "maybe" with the right approach. |
Davegess
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:14 pm: |
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Build yourself an FX bike and get it as close as money will allow to the factory bikes. You will need a Road Race resume to get some of the parts. Some of the parts will not exist Go out, run fast, scare the semi factory Buells. Suddenly some parts that didn't exist will exist. Happens all the time. All you need is money and talent the classic racing story. |