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Court
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2022 - 07:08 pm: | 
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>>>>Wow! the Helicon engine is obviously a piece of poorly designed crap.
I wouldn't call it a piece of crap . . . but, it is 12 year old technology and the sport tourer is probably like putting a C8 motor in a mini Cooper.
But . . . I could be wrong.
Let's see how many of them they sell . . . that's the true test. |
1313
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2022 - 07:26 pm: |
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You'd think they would update their website with such news of this magnitude...
I think that might lead to more sales.
But then again, in this day and age, maybe just seeing a little video on Instabarf is all it takes to sell something... Who needs to be bored with ANY technical details?!?! |
Elvis
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2022 - 09:06 pm: |
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I like the sport-tourer, but with some caveats.
I’d like the bags to be body-colored and more streamlined.
And the Uly hand-guards were such an easy way to provide some extra wind-protection, I don’t know why they didn’t carry that detail over.
I wasn’t a fan of the Uly’s height, and I spend 99% of my time on pavement, so I don’t need the suspension travel. So I like that they seem to be using the more standard configuration ( though I’m sure that’s more about keeping the cost down than anything ).
Most sport-tourers lean too far to the “touring” side with large fairings and luxury items I don’t need, so I love the idea of keeping it light and simple and basically making a sport-bike that’s more comfortable and practical for longer trips but still extremely light and responsive in the twisties. So from that point of view it’s a home-run.
I’m curious about the exhaust. This looks like just the chopped off version which I doubt will meet noise and emissions standards. But if the production version has that huge exhaust, it’s going to be a problem. Getting a compliant exhaust under the bike ( for all models ) should be a top engineering priority.
I don’t know if they’re really serious or not, but they have a good starting point, and if they have the cash to stick it out until demand gets to a level that will sustain them, they could survive.
(Message edited by Elvis on March 05, 2022) |
Buellgeek
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2022 - 09:17 pm: |
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Steve L-
You can not accurately measure valve timing events in relation to the crankshaft without the crankshaft, rod and piston present. Lining up the TDC mark on the cam gear to the degree wheel is certainly not an accurate method. The piston dwells at TDC. Lazy ports are not true. The valve seat is a Venturi sir. The port may lack a choke point but a properly prepared valve seat is always a Venturi. Have you given any thought to the fact the 1190 has a 2.66” crank stroke? Just like my xB9R is lazy below 3000 rpm’s. Not because the port(s) are lazy but because the short stroke and long rod creates a longer dwell time at TDC. There is in fact a piston that begins as a forging, with the majority of the “4 box” design as the EBR piston is being forged AND a fully machined piston from a forged billet. You clearly understand the plus of forging but you forget that forging the near finish size and shape of the underside of a performance piston does not always allow the addition or removal of material to alter the design for greater strength and durability. Therefore an engine builder has the option of a fully machined piston, not from an extrusion and certainly not from a casting. You suggesting 14mm of valve lift with higher ramp speeds and less duration is comical too. Are you familiar with the term “piston to valve clearance”? Are you aware that the intake valve(s) chase the piston away from TDC or that the piston chases the exhaust valve closed? Another reason to place the head on the engine block and properly determine TDC on the degree wheel before plotting the cam timing events is the opportunity to measure if there is clearance enough for higher ramp speeds. Speak of “advertising hype” the beehive valve spring and oval wire are not the be all end all of valve springs. While I don’t know all the criteria to designing a valve spring I am humble enough to admit it. |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 05:18 am: |
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Back on topic. Was just reading up on Harley’s new Pan American.
If I were interested in an expensive adventure sport bike I would buy this one before an EBR.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/ pan-america-1250.html
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Jaimec
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 12:41 pm: |
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From everything I've read, Harley created a pretty amazing Adventure bike for their first time WITHOUT Erik Buell. I'd still rather have more "primitive" Ulysses without all the electronic rider aids, though. |
1313
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 01:14 pm: |
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Via reverse engineering, I would humbly reply.
What is ground-breaking, pushing the envelope, against established norms (outside of Harley doing anything besides a cruiser, obviously)?
I'd give some credit for the adaptive ride height suspension, but that's been around in the automotive world for years.
Maybe I don't know the CannedSpam well enough? Perhaps I really don't care? When H-D said they didn't want me as a customer... |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2022 - 03:29 am: |
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My S3 came without rider aids, which was fine for me 20 years ago. But my new RX has double the power to weight ratio so I appreciate having them.
Problem is this old tech and still no ABS or quick shift option, so how can they justify $22K+? The new Harley starts at $18K, has modern electronics, and ABS comes standard. I don’t know if they want to sell outside the US but I think the new Euro 5 standards require ABS.
A&R says what a lot of us are thinking.
On First Look, The New Buell SuperTouring 1190 Fails to Impress
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/buell-supertouring-1190-debut/
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/h-d/harley_pan%20america_special_21.html |
Rsh
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2022 - 02:27 pm: |
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The front end of the Super Tourer looks hideous.
I hope the front fork travel is limited, the front fender looks like it will hit the lower LED light bar. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2022 - 10:46 pm: |
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Beyond ugly. |
Redridergr
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2022 - 10:23 pm: |
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It's a Melvin....
What ya expecting innovate design & engineering, based on personal experience of running a pawn shop? |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2022 - 02:05 am: |
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Sounds like fugly is the general consensus.
Super Touring fails to impress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCtJzHTVFDc
Not very pleased either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWwmdVgI0I0
IG links.
https://www.instagram.com/buell.motorcycles/
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/1190rx/
What is meant by “Super Touring”? I couldn’t find a consistent definition. Seems to me it shouldn’t be a bike with the aerodynamics of a brick wall. |
Cvc
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 07:06 am: |
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Ok the cosmetics suck but if they have the rights to Buell motor cycles couldn’t they just use the old X/XT front fairing lights ect. Go back to Hepco Becker for the bags. I do like the look of the seat though. And the helicon engine has plenty of power for any sane legal road use.
BUT
Go and have an anti-lock brake system from a major manufacturer calibrated and installed on the bikes.
India even mandated all motor driven cycles have anti lock brakes on 2017 up models.
Get the price under or at least in line with Metric liter bikes and show me where to have it serviced. Then they have a chance to sell some bikes. |
Figorvonbuellingham
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 11:27 am: |
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I like the bags, seat, pretty much everything except the lights and windscreen. I thought HD Pan was the epitome of ugly but this bike has managed to out do it. Hopefully this is just some oddball mock up. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 06:28 pm: |
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Saw the Pan America for the first time. They look better in person than in photographs. I'm STILL not into adventure style bikes, though. |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 07:09 pm: |
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The Superbike competition. Did I leave out anyone important and can the “new” Buell hang with any of them? Shoot outs are inevitable once they are available and I’d hate to see Buell come in dead last.
Aprilia RSV4 1100 Factory 217HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/aprilia/aprilia_rsv4_factory_1100_21.html
BMW S1000RR 205HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_s1 000rr_21.html
Ducati Panagale V4 210+HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ducati/duc ati_panigale_v4_22.html
Honda CBR1000RR-R 215HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/hond a_cbr1000rr-r-22.html
Kawasaki ZX-10RR 204-214HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/k awasaki_zx10RR_21.html
KTM Super Duke R 180HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ktm/ktm_12 90_super_duke_r_22.html
Mv Agusta Brutale 1000RS 208HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/mv/mv_agus ta_brutale_1000rs_22.html
Suzuki GSX 1000 199HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/suzuk i_gxx-r_1000r_legends_21.html
Yamaha R1 197HP
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yam aha_r1m_22.html
(Message edited by Mad_max on April 10, 2022) |
Ducbsa
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 08:18 pm: |
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My 102 hp XB12S seems like a novice bike in comparison. |
Figorvonbuellingham
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 08:22 pm: |
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All those bikes are limited to 185 mph now. Kind of makes hp just a number. |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2022 - 09:26 pm: |
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And 85mph is the maximum posted speed limit in the US. Horsepower sells because super bikes aren’t meant to be practical. Ask Ducati how they sell so many bikes and why their new motor is even more powerful @ 225HP.
Über-Spec Ducati Panigale V4 SP2 Debuts for 2023
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2023-ducati -panigale-v4-sp2/
The only bike on the list that hasn’t updated it’s engine since it went head to head in 2014 is the KTM. But they did update their electronics and shed 20 lbs, taking away EBR’s advantage.
1190SX vs 1290 Super Duke
https://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/brutish-v-tw in-streetfighter-comparo-part-3-2014-ebr-1190sx-vs -2014-ktm-1290-super-duke-r-video |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2022 - 08:34 pm: |
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Latest prototype looks like they reduced the massive windscreen somewhat and the turn signals are gone. Looks very amateurish and the feedback is still mostly negative. Seems this project is destined for failure if they continue to ignore Buell fans. https://www.instagram.com/p/CdBrFlYsFuR/
If they want “SuperTouring” I’d say keep the RX fairing, raise the handlebar location to a comfortable height, and design the rear half to look similar to the Police bike. Not my favorite Buell but much better looking than what they are trying now. Those shiny utility boxes look so out of place.
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Zacks
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 10:40 am: |
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I'm wondering how they are meeting the EPA sound check with the elimination of the secondary muffler. |
Figorvonbuellingham
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 11:28 am: |
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Yeh that’s just sad. They should get a new design engineer if that’s the best theirs can come up with. Looks like some 16 yo kids first moto conversion project. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 01:59 pm: |
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Shame
It's like have guys at a junk yard in the Bronx re-design a Porsche 911.
I'm sure their hearts on in the right place . . . it just does not look like a well thought out bike. |
Rsh
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 01:42 pm: |
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Even if the Super Touring was aesthetically pleasing, I see very few buyers, that also goes for the whole lineup.
The Buell ship has long sailed away.
If there could have been continued progression with Erik involved it would/could be a different story.
Truly sad. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 06:51 pm: |
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I’m wondering if Jen Psaki left The White House to become their spokesperson.
Gonna take some fast talkin’. |
Mad_max
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 09:41 pm: |
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They couldn’t afford Psaki.
Jen Psaki has chosen to leave the White House and join MSNBC for an on-air role at the channel. Jen Psaki has inked a 3-year contract with MSNBC, for which she will earn $12 Million per year and an additional $2 Million bonus based on her cable ratings.
They could probably get the current Press Secretary cheaper because I don’t think she’s going to last long. Her pitch would be, “If you criticize the new Buell, it’s only because you’re racist.”
My problem is, there was really nothing wrong with the RX aesthetics before. The new stuff on the HH, my Dad would have called ginger-crap and the SuperTouring is just fugly for no reason. They talk about the new bikes as “cutting-edge” but there’s nothing C-E about them anymore and everyone knows it.
What it needs is new stability electronics, better throttle, better brakes, softer clutch, ABS, VVT or VVL, and at least 20 more HP if they want to run with the big boys in 2022. All that is enough to be competitive…not a leader. You want to lead, you’re looking at at least 40 more HP and probably some weight reduction before you’ll be able to impress the critics.
(Message edited by Mad_Max on May 22, 2022) |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2022 - 06:00 am: |
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It was dandy technology in 2010 when the iPhone was celebrating it's 3rd birthday. |
