| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Power brakes won't do anything to alleviate the G-forces on a rider's upper body though. I think THAT'S what's causing the arm pump, not the rider squeezing the brake lever. All of those braking G-forces are going right into the rider's wrists, arms, shoulders and back. The harder the rider has to decelerate, the more of a load gets transmitted into the body. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I don't think its the G forces on the forearm musculature. In reading the description It appears to be related to blood flow and volume of the tissues. The repetitive motion of high energy braking create overpressure in the muscle tissues that causes the pain. Less force needed in the brake lever squeeze should reduce the oxygenated blood levels needed by the muscles, and reduce the dilation of the capillaries. I doubt there's a away to train MotoGP riders to reduce their 150- 175 BPM heart rate , or lower their blood pressure during a race, ( at least not without product probably banned from use in sports) | ||
| Jaimec |
Arm pump is almost unheard of in Superbike. I'm sure it happens, but I can't remember the last time I heard about a rider in WSBK or MotoAmerica needing arm pump surgery. Those bikes don't obtain anywhere near the speeds MotoGP bikes do, and I suspect their steel brakes (as opposed to the carbon/carbon brakes used in MotoGP) require an even harder squeeze to get serious braking force. I guess it would help if someone here knew anything about sports medicine or human anatomy? Too bad people here seem to be more interested in politics these days than motorcycle-related topics. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I suspect (without the Google) that arm pump is a type of temporary compartment syndrome and the surgery is a type of fasciotomy (perhaps not as drastic as a fasciotomy brought on by traumatic injury.) The calves and forearms are the prime areas of the body for compartment syndrome--which is when the muscles swell inside the "fascia-bound" compartments. Fascia does not expand well leading to painful pressure--ie "arm pump". Both you guys make good points, but I think Steve sounds correct in terms of braking being the primary contributing cause. The carbon discs allow for later braking and combined with the higher speeds is probably why is seems like it's a GP issue...it would be interesting to see what the braking lever force and duration of braking differences between the WSBK and GP. I wonder if GP is later and more intense braking (from higher speed,) which may contribute to the issue. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 09, 2021) | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Jaimie: That's because you don't need a degree to have an opinion on politics.  Fresno: In addition to the duration and force, possibly the cylcic rate of braking is a factor too? I was sure that there is real research happening on this somewhere outside of Moto riders. I'm not a clinician, but my job requirement does have me occasionally searching and reading journal articles and medical texts to help me understand what my customers needs are, (and sometimes what they're saying). I started with military and DOD, as few people on the planet exert themselves the way those folk do, and in the numbers worthy of a funded study. I found several interesting articles about using Botulinum toxin to treat this condition. Chronic Exertion Compartment Syndrome is fairly prevalent in the military, and 45% that have surgery still have a recurrence. ( that number is very similar to the anecdotal reports in Moto GP riders). https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article/184/5-6/e4 58/5095669 Perhaps one day it will be commonplace for some riders to, "Botox" their arms at the beginning of the season. | ||
| Jaimec |
NOW we're talking. By the way, I remember reading a story regarding Ben Spies' year in World Superbike. He kept having an issue with "vibration" from the front end towards the end of races when he first started. Pirelli engineers determined he was braking so hard he was spinning the front tire on the rim! They'd never seen that before and had to come up with a way to prevent that from happening. I'm guessing that was never an issue with the Dunlop tires he was used to from AMA Superbike... I also don't recall Spies ever complaining about arm pump that year either. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
"I also don't recall Spies ever complaining about arm pump.." That might have more to do with Ben Spies" physiology. The incidence of the condition is less than 1/1000 in general "at risk" population, (but apparently significantly higher in GP riders). So now were proposing in addition to power brakes, and botoxed arms, adding rim locks to Moto GP too  | ||
| Jaimec |
No, I don't recall that problem ever happening in MotoGP (though I do remember the carbon rear wheel on a Ducati disintegrating during a race). MotoGP wheels and tires already can handle those kinds of forces. It is the human body that (in my unlearned opinion) seems to be reaching its upper limit. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It's rider dependent based, of course. Some guys will never get it and some are predisposed--perhaps some combination of the expansion of their muscles/blood volume under strain, vascular complications/constraints of evacuating blood from the area, tighter compartments and perhaps less pliable fascia. When I was going to PT, one of the PT assistants went under the knife for exertional compartment syndrome in her calves. I assume it's very similar to the "arm pump" issue, only this manifested in her calves. Anyhow, she recovered by the end of my PT sessions and said she was all better. I understand the fasciotomy surgery (while an seemingly extreme, painful process) has a relatively high degree of success. I do believe they glue the wheels to the rims now to prevent the tire spinning on the wheel. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 13, 2021) | ||
| Jaimec |
There'll be an American on the grid this weekend in Assen for the first time in quite awhile. Gerloff got to just "practice" last year but he'll get to race this time. https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/981424/1/garrett -gerloff-replace-franco-morbidelli-dutch-motogp | ||
| Jaimec |
The end of an era. Valentino Rossi has officially announced his retirement. | ||
| Rsh |
I would have thought he would have retired awhile ago. His head was almost taken off at the Austrian GP. Racing for mid pack points and risking injury or life at his age after being at the top for so many years just didn't/doesn't seem worth it. To me, he was practically embarrassing himself, he has nothing to prove. I do wish him well and nothing but the best in his future endeavors. | ||
| Jaimec |
The funny thing is, he's been lapping faster on these tracks than he's EVER done... but all the young guns are just that much faster. In his interview it was clear he loves racing, but he loves winning more. Now that he realizes winning is no longer in the cards, it's time to pack it in. It's absolutely AMAZING that there are people in GP who weren't even BORN when he won his first races. That's what really blows my mind. | ||
| Jaimec |
Yamaha suspends Vinales!! https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/984768/1/yamaha- withdraws-vinales-unexplained-operation-motorcycle I've never heard of this happening before. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Too much aero and electronics in GP. Ride-height adjustments on the fly. Gimme a break. It was WAY more interesting before all the tech. Now back to WSBK.... | ||
| Jaimec |
Maybe we need an AHRMA thread, Fresno? | ||
| Jaimec |
Oh boy... https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/petronas-to -withdraw-srt-motogp-title-sponsorship/6646399/ | ||
| Fresnobuell |
WSBK is just fine. I think WSBK is a good blend of technology and machines that I actually recognize as streetbikes (even if they are a far cry from anything I could actually buy). The racing is undeniably superior to GP and JR's lock on the WSBK Championship is in question this year. The fact my fav rider is in the battle for the Championship is good for my entertainment factor. GP is a spectacle, so I will be watching it as long as it's on TV--but the wings are borderline ridiculous and the electronics have dumbed down the skill somewhat (or alot depending on who you ask.) I am not a fan of either. | ||
| Jaimec |
The wings were originally Ducati's response to not being able to develop their own "brain" or software anymore. They were looking for a non-electronic way of limiting wheelies. Once they were successful, everyone else started following suit. Same goes for the mechanical launch device. Ducati came up with it first and when they were successful, everyone else copied it. Wings have started popping up on Superbikes too, though Kevin Cameron revealed that they're just fashion statements on street bikes. They don't really have any effect on the bike unless you're doing at least 180 mph! | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
John Britten was putting wings on super bikes in the late 80’s early 90’s. Seems like a lot of his ideas have morphed over to other super bike manufacturers. | ||
| Jaimec |
Damn... neither Joe Roberts nor Cameron Beaubier made much of an impression at all in Austria... | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Motogp was kind if boring until Marquez pitted. Congrats to Binder. | ||
| Jaimec |
So Maverick is going to Aprilia... the one manufacturer yet to have a podium. Yeah, can't wait to see how THAT works out for him. If he couldn't ride what is arguably the easiest bike to ride in the paddock, how is he going to do on the Priller??? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
As much as I love to hate Ducati, there is no way you cannot give them major props for their their sheer passion, ingenuity and success at racing--especially considering their size compared to the Japanese maufacturers...plus they ALWAYS hire the hottest models at their PR events. All kidding aside I have grown to respect Ducati and I would even consider riding the right kind of Duc. I almost bought their Supersport SS, but thought it was a little down on power. These were waaay over the top. Really? These are not my idea of fashionable.   | ||
| Fresnobuell |
PS that Austrian track blows....3 drag strips leading into acute corners? What a design. Did the person who designed COTA have a hand in it? | ||
| Jaimec |
The Doctor's going to be a Daddy!  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Perfect time to retire. I wonder if he had any prior news of the preganancy...that may have figured into the decision to hang up the leathers. What a character! | ||
| Jaimec |
Funny how the Petronas Yamaha team was initially created to bring young riders into the Yamaha fold now has the two OLDEST riders on the grid... | ||
| Jaimec |
CamBee finally finishes ahead of Joe Roberts and makes Top 5 to boot! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
HOly shit the Gp race was BORING. I fell asleep. Bad racing at a bad track. Glad they chose COTA over Laguna Seca. ••••••• Shwantz brags about designing COTA on a bar napkin. Is he sure it wasn't toilet tissue? |
