| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
Thanks Reep . . . . . .. guess I'll go back to burning pieces of colored paper and hoping for the best ;-} | ||
| Hoser |
Bill : Correction to the above , I do use grease in that area , white grease . I have never experienced a failure on either of my Buells , but have repaired several others , sportsters too . Being at this for so long has led to the purchase or manufacture of most service tools required to do any of the overhaul / repairs an american V twin owner / builder could ever possibly face , ya I'm a gadget hound .The Kent moore tool used to push the needle bearings into 5th gear is easily made if you have access to a lathe and could be built in such a way that the main bearing and fifth gear could remain in place. By drilling through the installer when it is machined and using a thru bolt with appropriate sized support plate / guides it would then be possible to do the job " in frame " , I design and build tools regularily , ether "reverse engineered " versions of existing tools , some times incororating improvements or stuff that I " envisioned " , and then went to work making it happen . My garage is better equipped than many dealership service departments I have visited , even a scanalyzer ! , the OTC enhanced 4000 version , now if I could find some one to hack me a copy of the software cartridge , I'd build them a few service tools in return. | ||
| Joplin |
Heya Hoser, do you think you could post a pic of your Kent Moore tool thingy? I just dont habe the cash to atke my bike in to have all this done, so I must improvise,,,Thanks for any tips you could throw my way as well,,,,JM | ||
| Nascar_tom |
Road_Thing Thanks Front Pulley Nut 0 Craftsman 1/2" Impact Gun Won Thanks again | ||
| Road_thing |
Nascar_tom You're welcome, but the real thanks are owed to Blake and the guys who help him keep this board up and running! r-t | ||
| Reepicheep |
As always, thanks Hoser! Good info. | ||
| Joplin |
So the next question is what does it mean when your main drive gear assembly comes out in your hand after the tranny is out of the way? I was going to spin it in the case and , wah lah, out it came. I will post a pic as soon as my batteries(camera) charge up. JM | ||
| Reepicheep |
It means you save a lot of grief, stress, and agony! When Hoser was helping me, he indicated that on some bikes these things come right out, sometimes you are in for a fight. I had quite a fight with mine. Don't know at what point "too loose" becomes a real problem though. I can't remember what other ways that assembly is made captive once assembled. I would think that the "press fit" tension can't be the mechanical fastening that is the main way to hold the thing in place, does not seem like it would be reliable over the long term. | ||
| Bobpaul |
OK, I've got the dreaded rusty bearings between the 5th gear shaft and the transmission shaft. You guys were right: just pop off the seal in the center of the pulley and take a look-see. So, here I am with my GIANT 1-7/8 socket and I know it's a LH thread... but how do I keep the sprocket from turning? The service manual doesn't say. I don't really wanna put that much stress on the belt by holding the brake. How did you guys restrain the shaft for loosening (as well as tightening) this nut? | ||
| Steveford |
Bobpaul, An air wrench will zip the nut right off without the need to hold anything. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool! Well, cool I mean that inspection is that easy, sucks that your inspection turned up damage  I don't think you are going to hurt either the belt or the transmission. I think I just left mine in gear and stood on the breaker bar while holding the brake on. Once you get the tranny out, you can see how bad the bearings / tranmission shaft are. | ||
| Bobpaul |
Steve & Reep, Thanks for the quick response! The primary is draining right now. I figure I gotta pull the trans out so might as well start tearing things apart. Seems like the air wrench might be the safest... what with all the warnings about damaging belts. Steve, did you tighten the nut with the air wrench too? Reep, thanks for all the pic's on how to make the special tools for pushing and pulling bearings! | ||
| Steveford |
No, the air wrench is for removal only. I don't recall what the torque value is but definetly follow the procedure in the shop manual and use anti sleaze on the splines and Blue Loctite on the Allens that secure the plate. | ||
| Cu_chulann |
The manual states an initial torque of 50 foot pounds. Then turn the drive sprocket nut a further min. of 30 degrees, max 45 degrees or wherever between these marks that allows lock plate to be aligned. Never loosen nut to align lock plate screw holes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
 Remember the instructions for pushing and pulling those bearings with that 5th gear drive assembly in place in the bike are purely theoretical at this point. I bet they could be installed that way fine, but have some doubts if you could get the old ones out with that approach. If I were doing it, I would probably give it a try, but be ready to try and cut them out as well, maybe with a hacksaw blade embedded in a dowel rod or something... Unless I wanted to replace that great big front sprocket bearing anyway... in that case you have to push out the whole assembly regardless. | ||
| Bobpaul |
Reep, I think it's a done deal that I have to pull the 5th gear out... needle rollers usually have very hard outer races. It's either press them out and the new ones in while in place, or pull the gear and do it on the bench. I'll probably do the same as you've done! (dealer) Steve, Was wondering how you kept the sprocket from turning when you applied the force needed to turn it 30-45 degrees. Did you put the trans in 5th and then wedge a block of aluminum between the primary drive sprockets? or maybe you have the HD tool? | ||
| Steveford |
I used the factory sprocket holding tool which is the ever popular HD-41321 which belongs to my employer, not me! You could try putting it in first and having someone step on the rear brake but my guess is that the rear wheel will spin. | ||
| Cu_chulann |
Has anybody thought of drilling and then threading a grease nipple into the seal in the middle of the drive sprocket. I have tried to pop it from the outside but didnt have any luck. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I would think a deck screw or something would pop it right out. The seals are cheap, I would probably just pop them out and replace them when I "repack" them. | ||
| Bobpaul |
I tried a few things this afternoon. First I tried holding the rear brake... only pushed on the wrench as much as I dared to. Didn't come loose. Then, since I was pulling the clutch and flywheel, I had a block of aluminum jammed in the sprocket teeth... so I put the trans into a gear and gave it a go. Well it worked. My next step was going to be the air wrench! the seal is easy to pop out... I stumbled upon a way to do it: take a screwdriver with about a 1/8" flat blade. push it into the very center of the seal. It'll go right through since it's just rubber there. Then insert the screw driver on an angle and get the end up against the trans shaft. Then just pry it out gently. Do you think repacking is the way to go? What would be cool is a way to pump gome gear oil through the bearing and into the trans.... at least it would be compatable with the other fluid in there! On my bike the inner one was fine and had no rust at all. The outer one is rusty but still turns ok. I'd like to know how the water got in there. There was no evidence of water getting past the seal, which makes me think that it might be condensate.... what do you guys think? | ||
| Cu_chulann |
Well spotted , the rubber centre of the seal. I just poked a tiny hole in the centre and pumped a couple of squirts of sport trans in with an oil can. If you just spike the centre the hole pretty much seals itself, I put a dab of Loctite black silicon over it to be sure though. Maybe every 600 miles or so I will give it a squirt. | ||
| Bobpaul |
check this out the end of the mainshaft  here's the needle bearing  I think I caught it just in time! THANKS! | ||
| Bobpaul |
here's some more pic's.... mainshaft after cleaning with solvent.   there is a slight orange tinge to the surface of the shaft where the bearing runs and it's polished like a mirror! (I guess the rust is like jewlers rouge). The inboard bearing was in good shape and it's even hard to tell where it was runnning on the shaft! what do you think, still usable? and if yes, then how should I polish/clean it to remove the orange tinge? | ||
| Mikej |
Foolish question of the day: Are Sportsters having this needle bearing issue also? (I'm getting this urge to go take some things apart, this could get ugly.) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Fantastic BobPaul! That is still good to go. Here is what it would have looked like if you had let it go another few thousand miles...  Lucky you! | ||
| Joplin |
Hey all, can anyone tell me when Don't know at what point "too loose" becomes a real problem though. as Reepicheep wondered? I can't deceide whether I need to replace the gear assembly and case bearing. The outside of the gear assembly is discolored but i cant feel and grooves and the same for the bearing mating surface. What kinda tolerences should I have there? When I fit it back in , it fits without any noticable looseness but it sure dosent need to be forced in. Thanks for all the help to this point,,,,JM (pics to follow" | ||
| Bobpaul |
Joplin, can't quite follow the description.... did you get the pics yet? regarding bearing fit.... bearing companies usually publish the clearance between the shaft and the bearing, for any given bearing. I found some good info at the Timken site but it takes some real digging! After that you should be able to mic the parts and determine what's in and what's out. | ||
| Ara |
Gents, This may be old news to some, but it has come to my attention that the good folks at Mobil 1 are on record as NOT RECOMMENDING Mobil 1 gear oil in transmissions that have brass parts. Evidently Mobil 1 attacks brass. Since a lot of us use Mobil 1 gear oil in the transmissions of our Buells (and maybe other vehicles), I thought this might be of intrest. And the question is obvious: Are there brass parts in Buell transmissions? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Hmmm, I'd not heard the Mobile 1 gear oil thing. Can anyone verify? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Extreme suction! My M2 is in the hospital. Same story as the pictures above. The 5th gear shaft is toast. As is everything related to it. After returning from the dealer on Friday last week I putted over to a neighbors house without my normal helmet and earplugs. I heard a nasty noise coming from the area of the drive pulley. Without looking I knew what it was.... I pulled the swingarm brace and the Banke pulley cover and was greated with a large pile of black dust that used to be a bearing.... Saturday morning I loaded it on the trailer and brought it to the dealer. My extended warranty expires on July 29th! Regardless how many parts it takes, it's only going to cost me $50 out of pocket. I asked them to check the balky 1st to 2nd shift problem also. Good thing I have the S2 to ride!!!! Brad |
