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Sbaugz
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 02:46 pm: |
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My S1W has the full race kit. I rebuilt the canister using the Buell Race kit from Bristol Core. Despite the rebuild, it is way too loud. I use earplugs and my ears are still ringing after a short ride. What are my options? I currently have the race header which limits my canister options. Is anyone selling a complete 2.5" header and silencer setup? Are there other options available that will fit the race headers? |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 04:34 pm: |
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I pack my race mufflers with steel wool, and I like the sound. Mellow at cruise, but barks when you're on it. If you're the handy sort, you may be able to fabricate a hangar/clamp setup with a standard 2.5" auto muffler, or even a supertrapp disc muffler... |
Mnscrounger
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 10:15 pm: |
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I don't know about the steel wool idea, (what gauge?), but I tried repacking my Supertrapp and am down to 16 discs, it's still loud. |
89rs1200
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 10:41 pm: |
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Supertrapp will tell, 16 is the same as no disks at all. In other words, a straight pipe. Stock Buell RS1200 used 9 disks. I find 12 disks reduces sound but not performance. |
89rs1200
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 10:43 pm: |
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OH! I pack my muffler with fire place cord. Easy to wrap around. Not expensive. More robust than fiberglass wrap/packing. |
Ggggary
| Posted on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 10:51 pm: |
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stainless steel kitchen pot scrubber scrunchies for packing. |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2019 - 12:15 am: |
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I had a 'trapp (external disc) on my S2. I think I ran 10 discs - mellow sound, good performance with 45/190 jets and Thunderstorm top end. Changed that to a Buell 2.5" race muffler, home-build adaptor...then changed to a stock muffler because I rode the S2 for long runs and the noise was physically tiring. If you were more than 16 discs, and are stepping down to 10...make sure you're properly jetted or it'll bog/foul. Supertrapp is more a midrange-frequency sound; more of a "hum". The race muffler is a deeper resonance / rumble, with a serious crackle at WFO. I still run a race can - with steel wool - on my S1W. I love it. But...it's not my "long distance" bike - it's my "terrorize the twisties" bike. My long distance bike is my Uly, with stock exhaust. |
Mnscrounger
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 11:07 am: |
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I don't mean to hijack Sbaugz thread, but hopefully there will be info he can use too. I recall reeding somewhere either in the instructions or website for the Supertrapp, a caution about using fewer than 14 discs on a Sportster motor. Given Buells breathe even better, I was hesitant to go outside the range between that and the 20 the bike came with. The bike is an FI bike so jetting is not an issue but I am running the race ECM and ham can. I did just repack it with Moose brand packing. Its quieter,compared to the blown out packing but only slightly. I still prefer earplugs when riding it. Next time the muffler is off I will have to consider the stainless scrubbie packing. |
Mnscrounger
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 11:09 am: |
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I don't mean to hijack Sbaugz thread, but hopefully there will be info he can use too. I recall reeding somewhere either in the instructions or website for the Supertrapp, a caution about using fewer than 14 discs on a Sportster motor. Given Buells breathe even better, I was hesitant to go outside the range between that and the 20 the bike came with. The bike is an FI bike so jetting is not an issue but I am running the race ECM and ham can. I did just repack it with Moose brand packing. Its quieter, but only slightly. I still prefer earplugs when riding it. |
Kc_zombie
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 04:04 pm: |
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Why not go back to stock? That's about as quiet as you can get. I don't recall EVER seeing an aftermarket exhaust that advertised low db's as one of it's virtues... |
Williamscottrobertson
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 06:08 pm: |
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He wants to KC, but doesn’t have the stock exhaust. |
Sbaugz
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 08:23 pm: |
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So I ended up finding a complete stock 2.5" S1W exhaust from a FB member named BuellJay. Not sure if he is here or not. Got a pretty darn good deal at that. Now I will probably source a stock airbox as long as I am tracking down stock parts for the bike. Back in the day, my bike was dyno tuned with the race exhaust in place. I wonder how much screwing around I will have to do when I put the stock exhaust on ? |
Sbaugz
| Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 08:24 pm: |
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some pics. There is some minor denting and road rash underneath the header, but it should clean up very nicely.
(Message edited by sbaugz on June 18, 2019) |
Upthemaiden
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 12:02 am: |
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I went back to the stock exhaust for the sake of less noise. The quieter ride is nice, still use ear plugs. The bike (97 S1) definitely lost some pep. Its perfectly fine for normal riding, but the front wheel has zero interest in popping up easily like it used to. |
Falloutnl
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:45 am: |
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That square piece looks awesome though. Totally understand how it was ridiculed at the time, but now it only makes the bike more unique. Nice find, Sbaugz. |
89rs1200
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 10:19 am: |
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Seriously? Please research your facts before posting information! Supertrapp does NOT state there will be harm. The Supertrapp instructions, for the only unit they still make for Buell, states: "A stock engine with stock jetting will not benefit from using more than 12 to 15 discs. Using more than 15 discs will require richer jetting to prevent a lean condition. Best all around performance will be achieved with a jet kit, an aftermarket air cleaner, and 15 to 18 discs depending on degree of engine modification." https://supertrapp.com/catalog/product/view/id/113 22/s/supertrapp-725-71235-superlight-stainless-ser ies-slip-ons-buell-x1-m2-s18s3-99-02-brushed-s-s/c ategory/2/ https://supertrapp.com/pub/static/version156036634 2/frontend/embold/supertrapp/en_US/pdf/resources/0 03-7235.pdf |
89rs1200
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 10:59 am: |
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This link, concerning the number of disks to use, is also very useful; http://forums.supertrapp.com/showthread.php?3-Tuni ng-FAQ Q. How many diffuser discs should I run? The answer depends on your displacement: disc diameter, power band, and noise level. Fewer discs reduce sound levels, more discs increase sound levels. Fewer discs increase low-end torque and richen the carbureted fuel mixture. More discs increase sound levels, increase top-end power and lean out the carbureted fuel mixture. NOTE: When tuning an exhaust system, start with fewer discs and add. Never start with a lot of discs and subtract. Generally on a stock set up (no engine modifications, and stock carb and air filter), you can start with six to eight discs on dirt bikes and ATVs. On V-twin, metric and cruiser bikes, start with twelve discs. A popular misconception: The more free-flowing an exhaust system is, the more power it will make. This is not true. Some backpressure (2-3 PSI) is necessary to achieve maximum power. This is why it is necessary to use the discs that come with your tunable SuperTrapp exhaust. The number of discs to use will depend on your application, displacement, disc diameter and power band. To assess the performance of any product that affects horsepower and torque, lap times and Dyno- runs are your best indicators. However, since most enthusiasts usually only have a “seat-of-the-pants” Dyno, running condition is the most obvious indicator. Pay attention to the coloration of the discs. Little or no disc coloration indicates a possible lean condition (remove one or two discs). Black or sooty discs are indicative of a rich, or oil burning condition (add one or two discs). Discs that turn a tan or golden color indicate an acceptable balance of fuel mixture and exhaust flow. Reading a spark plug is the quickest way to check if everything in the engine is working as it should. And, it will tell if the SuperTrapp has been tuned properly. A rust-brown spark plug color indicates that the plug is operating smoothly (exhaust is tuned correctly). A whitish look indicates that the burn is too lean (remove one or two discs). A blackish deposit on the plug electrodes (left by oil or fuel traces) indicates that the burn is too rich (add one or two discs). |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 11:37 am: |
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You can get just as much pep out of a stock exhaust, when properly jetted. My S2 was a "stock" thunderstorm motor that I put in it - Thunderstorm top end and X1 cams on the stock (heavy flywheel) S2 bottom end. I ran 45/190 jets when I had a race muffler on it. I ended up putting a stock S2 muffler back on it once I found one. Stepped the idle jet down to a 42, 2.5 turns out, kept the 190 main...and it ran JUST as strong. The factory put a LOT of time into their exhaust systems. I'm amused even today, working in a metric dealership, that now the new "big thing" is underslung mufflers with torque flapper valves in them. Hmm...where have I seen that before...? |
General_ulysses
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 02:15 pm: |
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When I bought my 97 S1 it came equipped with a low restriction K&N air filter, a V&H pipe and Mikuni HSR42. Ran pretty good, but I didn't like the loudness of the pipe and I was convinced it was missing some low-end torque. So I installed the stock pipe and it really seemed to wake the bike up in the low-mid range. And I felt no loss at the high end at all. In fact, may have run better there too. |
Mnscrounger
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 03:54 pm: |
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89RS1200: Thanks for posting that information. (Nice Buell collection in your profile picture too.) Before you drag me over the coals for posting misinformation, please remember I did not assert anything to be fact, I said it was only a recollection from "somewhere", and then I speculated possibly a website or Supertrapp guide. There were 20 discs in there when I brought the bike home, and repacked the muffler the following summer. With no guide, or idea of how many actually should be in there, (and a bike than ran like a "scalded dog" in the words of the previous owner), I left it alone. When the can needed re packing again, I did then have the guide, ( but still not sure of what is a correct number of discs for the Buell "race tuned" ECM took out 4 discs (a conservative number, but if seriously mismatched to the tune, should manifest in something undesirable either on the power or at idle. I noted little difference, and that supports your terse response, and all the supporting documentation you've provided. Based on all the hullabaloo I will probably find the time to remove another 2 or 3 discs over the summer and see if it makes any difference in tone or ride. Thanks again, (to all),for the informative education in Supertrapp products. Sbaugz: I'm glad to hear you found a solution that works for you. Now lets all calm down and go for a ride,(it always does me good). |
89rs1200
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:18 pm: |
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Mnscrounger: Yep, you were the victim of my scorn. As a teacher and librarian there is a constant angst concerning information which is just taken as fact. Too many assumptions are made today with the idea that; "I read it on the internet so it must be the truth". My desire for badweatherbikers.com to continue to be the best and most accurate source of all things Buell is what drove my post. My apologies for any bad feelings which may have resulted. |
Williamscottrobertson
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:23 pm: |
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I put the stock muffler on my S2 and it idled smoother, ran smoother, wider power delivery, and as quiet as I think these motors can get - I can actually hear the air come thru the ham can no popping, gurgling, or any of those “too free flowing” noises. I recently put on a NOS Borla, which is much better than the V&H but still doesn’t hold a candle to a stock muffler. Same jetting with both pipes (45/190 2.5 turns CVP tuners kit). Stock pipe feels richer on top. Just my two copper clad zinc. |
Sbaugz
| Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:29 pm: |
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Back to the original top of my s1W - now that I have the stock exhaust, how should I go about jetting it? It is currently jetted (I believe) for the race setup. It also has the race ECM. Do I have to source a non-race ECM? I have access to a stock airbox too. I just haven’t decided if I will go that route or stay with the race intake that’s currently installed |
Williamscottrobertson
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:45 am: |
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Race box just raises the redline to 6800rpm. It’ll work fine with the stock exhaust. As far as jetting, I put the CVP deluxe tuners kit (and brass elbow) on all my carbs with the same 45/195 jets. Should run fine like that. The jetting isn’t that big of a deal. Put it on and see how it runs. Being a little fatter is ok. It likely has a shim under the needle and something close to 45/195. The tuners kit comes with a new needle, needle jet, and spring to fix all those issues the right way. Is the vacuum slide black plastic or metal? If it’s black plastic, it’s likely a Thunderslide dynojet kit. That would be probably a bit too fat. It would just be a bit sluggish and less responsive and the plugs would be very dark rather than a nice light brown. $65 and no more headaches: https://cv-performance.com/cvp-harley-carb-deluxe- tuners-kit |
2003xb9r
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:17 am: |
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+1 on the CV tuners kit. I have two tubers with them and they run great. |
Roycet4
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 08:28 am: |
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I have a Borla that I'd gladly trade for a stock M2 muffler.... |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 09:10 am: |
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Race box just raises the redline to 6800rpm. Along with MASSIVE changes to the advance curve. You don't *have* to find a stock box...but you could. Try it and see how it does. IMHO, a 45/195 will be too rich for a stock exhaust. My money's on 42/190/2.5 turns. |
Sbaugz
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 09:46 am: |
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thanks for the advice. So does anyone know what jets came on the stock S1W carb? I figured I would start with that? |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 10:12 am: |
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I think the stock (lean) settings are 42/180 or 42/185...and something like 1.25 or 1.5 turns out. I would NOT go that lean with a race ignition box. Hell, I changed every bike I got even if I left it bone-stock; they were simply too lean, in order to meet EPA rules. |
Mnscrounger
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 11:53 am: |
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89RS1200: No hurt feelings, I don't rattle that easy, and I can respect anyone who lives by the personal quote on my profile. " I'd rather be right than liked" Cheers. |
Screamer
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 02:05 pm: |
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Looking through the info I have, stock S1W carb components were: Main jet - 200 (27105-88) Slow/pilot jet - 42 (27171-89) Needle jet - NOKV (27273-96Y) per the parts catalog. 1996-97 S1 components: Main jet - 195 (27275-96Y) Slow and needle jets - same as S1W. I’ve found several printed and handwritten notes that indicate the needle jet on Thunderstorm S3 and M2 was the NOKK (27241-95) which is slightly richer than the NOKV. Based on that information, I’d suspect the S1W needle was actually a NOKK. The 42 pilot creates some lean behavior (even on stock ac and exhaust) which can be overcome by changing to a 45 pilot. |
89rs1200
| Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 03:07 pm: |
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Screamer, good information. Thank you. What altitude are you at? I ask because here in Nevada, at 4800 - 5000 feet, Main jet - 195 & 45 pilot jet work great on my S3s with: needle raised 1 notch, K&N air filter, Buell race/Supertrapp/Vance&Hines mufflers. This jetting is too lean at sea level. At sea level I install 200 main jet. |
Screamer
| Posted on Monday, June 24, 2019 - 10:24 am: |
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Where I live now, our garage is at 5500 ft, and a normal ride includes elevations of 3200 to 6500 ft. My S2 and XLCR are carbureted - the other three that are licensed and ridden are fuel injected. The XLCR is stock, and the S2 has a 44CV. I can do some looking to see if I still have jetting info from when we lived in this area before (when the S2 still had a 40CV). |
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