| Author | Message | ||
     Glitch |
Nothing like havin' some tactical furniture. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm tempted to get measurements and see what it would cost to have them re-make a mantlepiece for my fireplace...it's gas now anyway, so no soot/smoke to worry about... Next, someone will combine these with the beer fridge! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I kind of like the flags actually. I am thinking I would keep the card on top of the flag where it would be out of site but readily accessible if necessary. I have guns strategically placed everywhere except the foyer. this might be the opportunity to put one there. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 14, 2019) | ||
| Glitch |
I made a shelf. It looks like a thick shelf, but its really a drawer. | ||
| Aesquire |
There was a book, "How to hide almost anything" that did fake outlets, drawers, even rooms. I'm fond of the fake vents now available . Don't have any, just think they're cool. My few guns are in a safe. That's my story, & I'm sticking to it. Helps that it's true. That doesn't count on my person. I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons upon U.S. Navy ships. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Give me your opinions on this incident that happened locally (Central Cal). https://abc30.com/couple-jump-into-action-when-rob ber-threatens-to-kill-store-manager/5300905/ I assume this guy had a CCW permit (gun may have been stowed in vehicle?,) although it's not mentioned specifically. I have been taught to pull the gun only if life is in imminent danger and as a last resort. What would you have done in a similar circumstance? I don't think I would have played cop like this guy did. Likely I would have observed and entered the "altercation" only if it escalated (ie the perp DID have a gun/knife). Lots of things could have gone wrong here--you shoot someone and your life will never be the same. You better make sure it's worth it. Not sure stopping a shoplifter is worth it. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 15, 2019) | ||
| Glitch |
Training and trigger discipline saved the day. I don't know if I would have done the same thing having not been in such a situation. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I am almost sure I wouldn't have done the same thing. What if the perp just started walking away to his car, which is just as likely as him sitting down waiting to get arrested when the cops show up. You gonna shoot him? | ||
| Ourdee |
Devils advocate: If I was the perp, walking to my car and leaving would have been my next step. Stolen car? Of course I will make you shoot. What do I have to loose? Back to being R.D.: I'm not a cop. As an armed citizen, I can not shoot him over words. If he produced said gun or knife and appeared to be instituting action, my finger would be on the trigger. Until the perp escalates, I am just a witness. I do not chase shop lifters. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I agree 100%. My feelings as well. This guy put his life as he knows it on the line...but probably doesn't even realize it as apparently his friends are calling him a "hero". I wonder if the Sheriffs will issue any kind of statement on this.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1. CCW does not = LEO. I pray it never comes to it...but if it does, I will never shoot first unless the perp's weapon is pointed at my face. If I see a gun come out and get pointed at someone else? Judgement call that I hope I never have to make - does the perp have a buddy hiding in the other aisle, with another gun? Will I be exposing myself? Is it worth exposing myself, given the circumstance and situation? Shoot BACK, though? That's a different story altogether. Someone opens up near me, on my friends, on one of my shows, on my coworkers, whatever...they forfeit their right to go home. What if the perp just started walking away to his car, which is just as likely as him sitting down waiting to get arrested when the cops show up. You gonna shoot him? In the immortal words of Ron White..."I won't shoot anyone in the back...but I will shoot you in the leg until you turn around, to see "who is that who keeps shooting me in my leg?" - curiosity WILL get the best of you eventually!" (said as a joke, of course - if they're leaving and de-escalating, and nobody's been injured/shot/stabbed, that's photo time, and license plate time...and time for the cops to get called in). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My Dad has a library of self defense DVDs. One of the best is one that shows and breaks down real-life instances of these situations (bullets actually fly however). Some bad guys end up dead, but in alot of cases these Cowboys end up the dead ones. My takeaways from the DVDs: 1) Shit happens FAST in real life 2) Pulling your gun should be done at LAST resort, after all other options are exhausted. 3) The good guys are just as likely to be killed as the bad guys. 4) If someone has the drop on you, DO NOT try to pull a concealed weapon. You will lose. 5) No matter what caliber you use, head shots are the only instantaneous way to drop someone (assuming we are talking about "normal" handgun loads). 6) Multiple bad guys is a distinct possibility in real life. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 15, 2019) | ||
| Glitch |
Good food food thought. | ||
| Ourdee |
if they're leaving and de-escalating That keyword "DE-escalating", without a threat to eliminate, I need to stop shooting. We do not shoot with the intent of killing. We only shoot to eliminate the threat. I fully understand that death could be the result of my actions, but that should never be my intent. The elimination of the threat that is placing me in fear for my life or others is the only reason for pulling the trigger. | ||
| Glitch |
I was talking to a guy that carries a 22lr pistol in his pocket. He explained to me his only goal is a "break in contact". | ||
| Ratbuell |
We do not shoot with the intent of killing. Understood, we shoot as a last resort to end a threat. The focus being, ending that threat. I just hope I never have to. (Message edited by ratbuell on May 15, 2019) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Yes there is evidence in multiple videos on the DVD I referenced in a previous post where mortally wounded people (both good guys and bad guys) are shot but are able to shoot back. The only place that is "instant kill" is a head shot. Even through grainy CC video recordings, it's easy to see exactly when someone is shot in the head vs. anywhere else on the body. That's why one of the practice techniques taught is to have two human silhouette targets. One in the normal standing position and one laid on its side to simulate the perp on the ground. The idea is to transition from the standing target to the target laid on the ground. Aiming for the head when the perp falls to the ground. | ||
| Aesquire |
You fight to STOP the fight. Period. Deadly force is only justified it there is a perceived threat to life. Fighting fair is for tournaments. If the bad guy is incapable of hurting you, it's over. If he's running, surrendered, or you have him in a hold, it's not over. It's on hair trigger pause. Then there's the after problem. Which is too complicated for an internet forum. If you are worried about how the Grand Jury will see things, you didn't think about it enough long, long, before hand. You have to be able to tell them you hit him with a brick/bullet/cane/whatever until he was no longer a threat, or you shouldn't fight at all. | ||
| Aesquire |
Or to quote wisdom. There is no "overkill." There is only "open fire" and "reload." https://schlockmercenary.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seven ty_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I took a one-on-one CCW course for my permit and I realized the gravity of shooting someone (no matter if it's 100% justified) when the instructor literally spent half of the course telling me how my life would be turned upside down if I ever shot someone. Likely jail time and a lawsuit from the other person (or family in event of a death) MINIMUM. That's why they offer insurance for CCW people. Bottom line: Unless your life is in grave danger, DO NOT shoot someone. If your life IS in grave danger, then you are willing to suffer the consequences in order to survive. IMHO, the guy in the video who stopped the shoplifter at gunpoint is a moron. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Fighting fair is for tournaments. Which is why I have a laser. I feel like I'm cheating at the range...but I have no problem stacking the deck in my favor, should it hit the fan and I have to fight my way out of something. US Law Shield is a necessity for the aftermath. "Say nothing. Call us. We'll handle it." I signed up before I even left my CCW classroom. I said it then, I'll say it again - I hope this is the biggest waste of time and money in my life. But...I'd rather do it, than hide behind a piece of furniture and think "man...I should have done that paperwork/paid those fees/taken that course..." | ||
| Fresnobuell |
How much? | ||
| Ourdee |
intent (Message edited by Ourdee on May 15, 2019) | ||
| Ratbuell |
How much? About $11 a month for near-unlimited resources in an event. uslawshield.com | ||
| Airbozo |
Funny. Listened to a conversation a couple of weeks ago with the F-I-L (retired FBI) and B-I-L (active duty cop) concerning pulling a weapon and discharging it. Both of them agreed that as a member of the law enforcement community you shoot as a last resort and with the intent of stopping the threat. They also both agreed that part of that threat is from a survivor in the form of a lawsuit. They were both taught to shoot to kill as that is the quickest way to stop the threat. (same thing I was taught in the NAVY) I was mostly listening in and not participating, so I might have missed some of the reasoning and in depth discussion. | ||
| Airbozo |
"I am very careful about what I put on the internet when it comes to intent." Very wise advice. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What? They don't think they will get sued if the person dies? OR maybe deadmen tell no tales? If the latter, then more evidence all cops need to wear cameras. | ||
| Ourdee |
OR maybe deadmen tell no tales? My instructor said that. I think a lot of the inference was that this is what you were attempting and this is why You will fail at it, and the above is a side benefit of the results. | ||
| Ourdee |
Strange how some of those lectures are stuck in my mind, but I get to the kitchen and can't remember if I wanted coffee or tea. Then I get back to the computer to realize I needed a knife to cut something food related. | ||
| Ourdee |
Some of the training concerned taking a live prisoner. They wanted to be able to interrogate someone. Doesn't really translate to civilian personal protection needs. |
