| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
So instead of a solid anode and cathode, they would be liquid? Hmmmmmm.... interesting concept... But wouldn't it be easier and less messy to swap out two solid materials than to drain a liquid? | ||
| Court |
We will see one or two "sea changes" in battery design over the next couple years. One of the limitations is that battery "improvements" is that, to date, we've been stuck in the mindset of doing the same old thing . . just doing it better. We need to forget everything we know and move to the new normal in terms of battery storage. | ||
| Phwx2 |
The benefit of the flow battery is the main compound is found in ruhbarb. It is non- toxic. As long as the two fluids are seperate they retain the charge. No loss during storage. The benefit of the fliud change rather than a battery change is basically consumer expectation. We are all familiar and accepting of a 5-10 fill up, not a 30 minute charge. | ||
| Phwx2 |
So when does the fuell section of badweb go up? First sale? | ||
| Phwx2 |
So when does the fuell section of badweb go up? First sale? | ||
| Court |
>>>First sale? May be too late. :-) | ||
| Jaimec |
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fuell-is-more-t han-an-electric-motorcycle-company-part-1 | ||
| Crusty |
Interesting... | ||
| Shoggin |
Good article if you can scan past the ELEVEN ads for H-D cruisers on one page...  | ||
| 1313 |
Speaking of H-D ads... Too bad we couldn't advertise like this in the US back in the day...Lookit 0:48 | ||
| Mog |
I believe that Mr. Terny implied the key element was to recognize the following.... “One thing that I think was really great is from the very beginning the entire story was, ‘Hey, let’s make this work,’ not making the traditional mistakes or the obvious mistakes that others do by trying to pretend an electric motorcycle today can replace a gas motorcycle, especially a sportbike. I mean you know, one on one, the internal combustion engine will always win. If you want to cross the US in comfort you need gas and all those things, so that was really interesting that from the very beginning we focused down onto city usage. "the ICE will always win." Stay tuned, something else should be on the horizon this year. Looking to get more info on the bike and I will pass it on, please bear with me.  | ||
| Court |
>>>>something else should be on the horizon this year. That's an accurate statement. | ||
| Dstro |
Jamiec, the electrodes are still solid, there just has to be something to carry the charge between them. This is the same principle for batteries all over. In lead-acid batteries, the acid is the liquid that carries charge from one solid electrode to the other solid electrode. In AGM (adsorbed glass mat) batteries, the liquid saturates a mesh of fiberglass between the electrodes. These are both mature technologies and practical/achievable. When it comes time to swap a battery, us users will just see the final thing being swapped out as a hefty chunk of plastic box, regardless of whatever is going on inside. | ||
| Court |
In many ways we are continuing do do . . . in various states of advanced refinement . . . the same thing we have done for years. I wonder . . . if we aren't just a "sea change" away from finding those batteries that are new in each and every way and make battery storage practical. I have some exposure to wind and solar systems now and in order to convince yourself they are, in any way, shape or form, practical, you have to ignore a lot of reality. They're cute . . . but, in large part, fad. It's the same cognitive game of Three Card Monte that makes you think a Prius is greener than an F-250 pickup . . . just because all the waste from those batteries went up a smokestack rather than out an exhaust pipe. I suspect we'll be racing across the country before long without having to stop for a couple hours to recharge the car at every 200 mile interval. I also suspect we'll free ourselves from the 2D constraint of gravity (think George Jetson). If you find this laughable . . . imagine telling your Father about an iWatch or iPhone (the phone is with us a mere 11 years) as recent as 40 years ago when I had my 108# Motorola IMTS telephone with all it's vacuum tubes that took up a good part of the trunk. There was a fellow who gave a Commencement Address at Columbia University, precisely 10 years ago this May, who spoke on the "velocity of change" and the impact on and relationship with the human spirit. We live in interesting times. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ever read Alvin Toffler? | ||
| Crusty |
Shocking; isn't it? | ||
| Gregtonn |
I also suspect we'll free ourselves from the 2D constraint of gravity (think George Jetson). . . . imagine telling your Father about an iWatch or iPhone Both of those existed in the Dick Tracy comic strip of the early 1960s. The former Diet Smith's Magnetic Space Coupe. The latter Dick Tracy's 2-Way Wrist TV. G | ||
| Hughlysses |
Personally, I want to see the Moon Maid.  | ||
| Stevel |
There is a huge misunderstanding by the general public concerning the subject of batteries. Court is correct, batteries are NOT green. Their manufacture causes lots of polluting emissions. These misunderstandings are promoted by the scientifically uninformed left and our scientifically illiterate political leaders. There is no doubt that electrical vehicles are superior to ICE powered vehicles. If you ever get a chance to drive one, that fact will be obvious. The issue is not electric vehicles. It is all about batteries and energy storage. Consider that the gold standard is oil. We can drive our motorcycle 150 miles on 15 liters of Gasoline which weighs about 11Kg or your car 500 kilometers on 25 liters of diesel weighing 21Kg. No battery technology available today or even proposed technology can match even 50% of that energy density. I truly believe electric vehicles will remain a niche market for the foreseeable future For a moment let's consider that I'm wrong and there will be a battery technology available that matches or exceeds oil's energy density, where will all that extra electric energy come from? How will it be generated? How will it be transported and distributed? There are no answers to these questions. The infrastructure does not exist. Consider that oil/fuel distribution we use now took 120 years to develop and our electric transmission system is outdated, vulnerable and totally incapable of meeting those requirements world-wide. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think the other part of the energy density issue for electrics is safety. Gasoline's volatile, flammable stuff, but it can be handled with caution and can be extinguished if it catches fire. Diesel's even better (more energy per unit mass, less prone to fire). OTOH, from what we've seen of the newest batteries, like lithium ion, if something goes wrong you just have to get clear and watch it burn. Imagine if you double or quadruple that energy density in a battery. Hopefully they're working on making more stable, more damage resistant batteries as energy density increases. | ||
| Midknyte |
Yeeeaaahhh, about that... https://electrek.co/2019/03/14/disastrous-fire-con sumes-all-electric-motorcycles-in-motoe-races-futu re-uncertain/ | ||
| Jaimec |
DORNA confirms that none of the bike were being charged at the time. Investigation is still underway. From what I understand, the new series will be using solar power to charge the bikes at each race, and the fire occurred in the dark. I'm wondering just WTF did happen. I guess we'll find out soon enough. | ||
| Jaimec |
Follow up: https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/915635/1/motoe-c onfirms-cause-jerez-paddock-fire | ||
| Ciemny02 |
Hi guys, In my opinion electricity is the future. Nothing can stop it. Especially after few decades when the prices of oil will sky rocket. Oil will be for industrial limited use only. Oil resources profitable to extract are dimishing. I live in Iceland. Electricity here is super cheap. Fuel is super expensive. We have green energy. Hydro and geothermal electricity. About 30% is geothermal. The rest is water. 2029, it will be the last year here in Iceland, when you will be able to register the ICE vehicle. In 2050 Iceland goes 100% electric. The ICE car, moto, boats and certain machinery engines will be excluded from the use. Already on the streets you can see many electric cars and even more hybrids. When waiting on the red lights, you can be sure there is at least one electric and 2 hybrids next to you. On the beginning of 2020 I am buying new PHEV car for myself. Charging stations are widely available. I will be traveling to work free of charge. I will have to charge the car one time per 3 days. Free charging stations are situated on the parking lot where I work. The longest journey I make on average is the distance to the capital city, around 60miles back and forth. New hybrid I am waiting for will have around 60miles coverage. On the average month my commute car costs will be close to 0. On the longer journeys, ICE engin will kick in. Still the fuell consumption for such a big SUV is great. Also charging at home will be almost for free. My monthly electricity bill is around 25$. I have a heated hottub on the patio which constantly heats up the water the whole month. Still, less then 30$ of electricity bills per month. Hopefully this picture shows how the future of battery powered vehicles looks like here in Iceland. For hybrid or electric we are also released here from yearly road tax payment which is around 300-600$. In Iceland ICE engines are slowly dissappearing but we have favorable conditions. Also Iceland is trying to be very eco-friendly. That's one of the reasons why I moved to this country. Sincerely Bart | ||
| Jaimec |
Hey Bart! I have a 2018 Zero S that I use primarily for my 34 mile round trip commute, though I also use it for running errands and occasional pleasure riding. It, too, costs me nearly nothing to run, as I purchased my first one using a tax rebate for installing solar panels on my roof. The additional electricity the bike draws to recharge overnight doesn't even rate a "blip" on my monthly electric usage. With no valves, oil, coolant, spark plugs, filters or clutch my only real expenses are tires and brake pads. It's a beautiful thing. It also saves the wear and tear on my trusty old K1200LT leaving that bike for what it does best: Cross country road trips. | ||
| Ciemny02 |
P.S. I wanted to add that there was no incident in Iceland of accidental fire in any battery powerd car. Also recently I watched a documentary about batteries. There are new technology coming with more efficient battery capacity due to different materials and also methods of preventing batteries catching fire when crashed or punctured. Also in the not so far future, here in Iceland there are plans to implement inductive charging systems build in to the roads. Electric vehicles will be constantly charged while moving on the road (somethings like wireless charging of mobile phones). 27% of all sold cars at the end of 2018 here in Iceland where Plug-in's electric vehicles. Have a good day! | ||
| Stevel |
Clemny02, You are leaving a false impression of the future of electric vehicles. In Iceland there is only one paved major road that runs between Recklavic and Keflavic. and that's about 20 miles long from memory. Everything else is volcanic pumice and dirt roads. All your vehicle trips are short. Any long trips will still have to be done with 4 wheel drive ICE vehicles. In Iceland you are very fortunate to have almost free electric energy and heating systems because of your abundant Geothermal resources. After all, you folks live on top of live volcanoes. This is hardly an example for us mere mortals. Don't get me wrong Iceland is a cool place and everybody should visit your country at least once. I have spent a lot of time there in the past at Kef and bought a lot of your very expensive beer! However, you cannot legislate innovation and discovery. Those things happen when they do and there is nothing we can do to change that. | ||
| Shoggin |
"you cannot legislate innovation and discovery" Sorry, but that is exactly what the USA and most of Europe has been doing since 1973. Or we'd still be driving 454 Cu/in V-8's with 150hp and 9mpg. I don't agree with it. But that is exactly why we have ultra efficient ICE's now, and why we will have amazing battery tech very soon. It will cost you, and me, but we'll have it. | ||
| Ciemny02 |
Stevel, with all due respect but please be serious  There was one paved road between the two biggest towns you mentioned but 50 years ago The road network plays an important role in local transport of marine products for processing and export and for the increasing tourism. There is a 31miles distance between Keflavík to Reykjavík. Yesterday I did 500miles of paved road while showing around to my visiting friend. The asphalt road around whole Iceland, called "Ring Road" is 828 miles long with more than 100 charging stations on the way (total of 200 charging stations in total in Iceland). Total lenght of paved roads in Iceland is around 3300miles. The gravel roads, called "F" roads, which run across the interior are accessible only for 4x4cars. Total lenght of this roads is about 5000miles. Most of them are closed during winter and spring due to harsh conditions, snow, flodding etc. They cannot be paved because of quick devastation. It would be pointless. So do not worry come with your bike and feel safe on nice flat asphalt twisties. If you have something higher with rough tires, please go for "F" roads like many tourist does on their bikes. Iceland is bikers land. Smallest towns have bikers clans. Sincerely Bart (Message edited by ciemny02 on March 16, 2019) (Message edited by ciemny02 on March 16, 2019) | ||
| Airbozo |
Prius: Had some friends who could have been the basis for the southpark Prius episode. They felt so holier than thou when they bought one of the first models and actually flipped off all of the Hummers on the road until I showed them several articles explaining why the Hummer was pretty close on the "green scale" to their Prius. Then they had to have all of the batteries replaced and I kidded them that their Prius was now less green than a Hummer. They were not amused. Back in the early 80's when I was in the Navy, we had one of the the first ship borne modern GPS units installed. It was the size of 4 washing machines. Who would have thought a more accurate version would now be in a phone taking up less space than some shirt buttons (Court: my first "mobile" phone did not have tubes though, but the car had to be running to use it or you would quickly drain the battery). As far as electric vehicles go, I am of the opinion that a lot of governments will restrict the ability of a private citizen to own a personal vehicle sometime in the future. It would be hard in the US because we don't have the commute infrastructure in place in a lot of European countries. Plus there would be riots akin to banning guns if they came for your cars and trucks. California and other states have tried to mandate solar power on new home construction but where I live they would have to cut down all of the redwoods for it to be moderately useful. It's a great idea except for the fact the production of solar cells is still not as green as most folks believe. Not as bad as batteries, but in order to really be useful you still need a storage medium, aka batteries. I still think we need to explore all options though and one discovery leads to another. |
