| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
Which pistol for hog? The AR pistols in .300 Whisper (blackout) seem like a good choice  .357 & up with hardcast bullets. 10mm ? | ||
| Ourdee |
Ruger Super Redhawk, 7.5" barrel, chambered in .454 Casull. I thought about using the AR 11.5" barrel, .556 as back up in case I lost my mind and just got the piggy mad. Built the AR to come close to the GAU-5 dimensions. I figured the Redhawk should be enough. Any thoughts? I wasn't real interested in wasting a mess of pigs, but not closed minded about helping with pest control. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Kind of funny that the 'soft' cartridge for the .454 is a .45. | ||
| Ourdee |
The .454 Casull By Chuck Hawks .454 Casull Illustration courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co. If you are a .45 Magnum person, this is your cartridge. The .454 Casull was designed by Dick Casull and Jack Fullmer in the 1950's as a cartridge for big game hunting. Its case is basically a longer (by approximately 1/10th inch) and much stronger version of the .45 Colt case, and a .454 Casull pistol can also shoot .45 Colt ammunition, much as a .44 Magnum revolver can also shoot .44 Special ammunition. The SAAMI did not accept the .454 Casull as a standard cartridge until 1998, when the maximum average pressure was set at 65,000 psi. The highest pressure shown in the Hodgdon Data Manual using the older copper crusher method is 55,000 cup. These pressures are similar to those of the .300 Weatherby Magnum rifle cartridge! .454 Casull factory loaded ammunition is available from Federal (300 grain JSP at 1630 fps), Freedom Arms (240, 260, and 300 grain jacketed hard-core bullets), Magtech (260 grain JSP at 1800 fps), and Winchester (250 grain JHP at 1300 fps, 260 grain JHP at 1800 fps, 300 grain JSP at 1625 fps). These velocities are all taken in 7.5" vented (revolver) test barrels. For handgun hunting, most reloaders will choose jacketed bullets ranging from 200 to 300 grains, depending on the intended purpose. Use the conventional 200-260 grain JHP bullets for deer hunting, and the tough 260-300 grain premium bullets for large game. Note that the .454 Casull cartridge is designed for use with small rifle primers due to the extremely high pressure at which it operates. Most .452" bullets are designed for optimum performance at .45 Colt velocities and should not be driven to the maximum velocity possible from a .454 pistol. Naturally, magnum pistol powders like Hodgdon H110 and Winchester 296 are best for the .454. The Hodgdon Data Manual No. 26 shows the following muzzle velocities using Freedom Arms JHP bullets in front of maximum loads of H110 powder sparked by Remington 7 1/2 primers. The .454 achieved a MV of 2090 fps with the 240 grain bullet in front of 39.0 grains of H110, 2005 fps with the 260 grain bullet in front of 37.0 grains of H110, and 1780 fps with the 300 grain bullet in front of 31.5 grains of H110 powder. All of these loads were chronographed in a 7.5" pressure test barrel. The maximum average pressures of these loads was between 53,800 cup and 55,000 cup. The price for all of this power is increased recoil, greatly increased recoil. The .454 generates almost 5 times the recoil of the .45 Long Colt, and about 75% more recoil energy than the .44 Magnum. (See the Handgun Recoil Table for specifics.) It is way out of the class of all but the most experienced and recoil tolerant shooters. Note: A full length article about the .454 Casull can be found on the Handgun Cartridge Page. I got this here: https://www.chuckhawks.com/454casull.htm | ||
| Aesquire |
Yeah, that'll do (on) pig. I tried one with 300 grain bear loads and it is beyond my comfort level, but usable. With Cowboy Action .45 Colt loads, a Super Redhawk is a great plinker. Shoot all day long. Great group. Great choice. The .454 in a five shot ( don't recall make ) revolver was the "gimmick" gun in the movie Alien Nation with James Caan. Good flick. Caan's service gun was inadequate to stop a "slag" ( derogatory term for immigrant Alien ) so he got a scope equipped .454. That worked. Proven on every critter that walks. ( if you can't use a M-19 ) | ||
| Ourdee |
As long as it is the mod 3 M-19. | ||
| Ourdee |
Wonder what it would take to get a Sig P-227 with a .460 Rowland conversion? May not be able to with the aluminum lower. It would be interesting working an SRT with it. | ||
| Tootal |
Hmmmm, you be the "Judge"!  | ||
| Shoggin |
Haha! I always wondered who bought those   | ||
| Tootal |
I usually just have snake loads in it for walking my property. There's a few copperheads running around up there! Then a friend showed me this defense ammo and the idea of 4 3/8" diameter balls whacking a sternum sounded very...uhh...defensive?  | ||
| Aesquire |
I like the Winchester .410 ammo designed for those revolvers, with the disc bullets & BBs. "Destructo discs" from Dragon ball Z. Their buck & ball version for 12 ga. Used a full sized slug plus buck shot. Nigh perfect performance. And historical reference. edit, As is always the case, guns prefer different ammo. My ( my buddy's S&W )good results might not be great in your gun. I think the "judge" .410 revolver types are silly for concealed carry, but really nice for the bedside quick access safe, or the same in a car. Guns & Ammo tv actually had the demonstration of the Judge ( or the S&W, don't recall ) from inside a car at a close paper target right outside the passenger window. Dang. (Message edited by aesquire on September 29, 2018) | ||
| Tootal |
Agreed. I didn't buy it for concealed carry. Like Thomas Jefferson said in a letter to his nephew. "take a long walk in the woods with your gun." (or something close to that) That's my walk in the woods revolver. Although, it's getting used for home defense too! 5 shot double action means 20 ball bearings heading your way! | ||
| Pwnzor |
My "Walk in the Woods" is the Ruger Security Six in .357 with Underwood Xtreme Penetrators. | ||
| Tootal |
Nice. I have a Bicentennial model of the Security Six. I load it with Blue Dot and with the 4" barrel it puts out quite the fire ball! Definitely fun to shoot! | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.breitbart.com/california/2018/10/01/as sociated-press-shows-obama-era-gun-control-failure -blaming-trump/ You can bet they will lie. Now that there are Congressmen admitting that the goal is to disarm you peasants, we can quit trying to pretend that their tactics have any validity at all. A pistol grip or bayonet lug ban never had a logical reason, it's all been an excuse to steal your property and rights. The truth is the best weapon, and we own it, not them. | ||
| Rick_a |
The general idea that the easy availability of guns literally kills people, with the concurrent theme that nobody wants your guns...is at odds. | ||
| Aesquire |
Change the phrase "kills people" to "inconvenient to tyrants" & it all makes sense. It cannot be repeated enough. Leftists lie. They have to or no one would like them. Their bible substitute is all about ruining people & stealing with lies. It's dedicated to Lucifer, The First Rebel. Never take their claims at face value. Always challenge and reject their assumptions. | ||
| Rick_a |
I've been arguing with "liberals" for a couple years now, directly, and once you break down their narratives and expose their emotionally charged rhetoric, they kinda stop playing...where often they'll resort to some childish insult. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Which is why their modus operandi is disrupt, delay, and attack. Policy? Nah...we don't need one, we'll just argue with yours while we promise free stuff for everyone. | ||
| Ourdee |
You mean like Lucifer, The First Rebel. I do not know that Lucifer was the first rebel. Only that he is the first one God allowed me to know about. The first commandment with promise was about obeying your parents and getting to live. But let's not get off opening up an unsubstantiated doctrine for someone to drone on about. I always told Sunday school students to make me prove what I was teaching. Question everything so that you are sure of what you believe. Make this your class, own it! I served coffee, juice, milk, and donuts. Some of the best lessons were taught by the students. So, as God is the Everlasting Father (or Father of Everlasting), Lucifer is the Lying Father (or Father of Lying). A simple understanding in that sentence will preach. There is an aha moment to be had. 'Nuff for now. Said like a preacher that lulls you into thinking the sermon's end is nigh. What is the greater sin; Telling the lie, or Assuming it to be the truth? I would go a step further in claiming that placing your self into a mind set that allows you to just suck down the Kool-Aid is a sin. Allowing yourself to flow with the crowd instead of separating yourself from them. I feel I could be the writer of unpopular songs. Being a part of BadWeb has helped me to tune up the old bovine defecation meter. I have learned being here that everything should be questioned at some point. If we want to chant "Never Again!"...forever, someone has to break the pitchers that pour forth Kool-Aid into the blissful ignorant. Someone has to make ignorance uncomfortable. Until people are uncomfortable, most of them don't even search for God... | ||
| Ourdee |
The first post in this thread was pics of 1911s.  My favorite ace of spades is the copyrighted one from 1935 for KEM PLAYING CARDS. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/ a23552044/fdm-technology-four-barrel-caseless-rifl e-army-prototype "snerk, cough, choke, chuckle, guffaw...." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a piece of hyped up crap! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun There are earlier versions of the concept, one had multiple barrels, laid out like the Nordenfelt, with a pre loaded iron block with all the bullets, powder, and chambers in a row, ( some flint lock, later, percussion cap ) that you could fire in succession, down the row. You'd put the loaded "clip" in position, lock it in place, and fire, one end to the other, the chambers in quick succession to get the same effect as a group of riflemen, or a modern machine gun. Briefly. Then unlock, reload, and "brrrrrrt" again. This space age modern many new patents super duper gun is the same old ideas with new paint jobs, and probably an Iphone app. I do love how they take the problems that have cursed caseless ammo, like it's fragility, and issues with cook offs, by going to Leonardo da Vinci technology with pre-loaded chamber blocks, which are actually just huge, blocky cartridge cases, and using electrical primers, which were common in aircraft machine guns & cannon in WW2. Less moving parts, less to go wrong. In this case, I chalk it up to too lazy to steal that part of the design from black powder multi barrel pistols used to repel boarders in the age of Sail. ( still used in modern Derringers ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribauldequin I've often said that other history buffs are armchair Generals, while I'm an Armchair Procurement Officer, I'm less concerned with the tactics used at the Little Big Horn, and more concerned with the firepower advantage the Natives had over the egotistical Custer because the U.S. Army decided to save money by converting thousands of old black powder rifles to single shot cartridge guns, instead of buying modern repeaters.... and didn't learn the lesson how stupid that was even after the Battle of Greasy Grass. The U.S. didn't go repeater until the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8 rgensen almost waiting until the 20th century.... Even though high capacity fast repeaters were an American invention, and gave a game changing edge in combat. Ask a Lakota. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little _Bighorn My take on this "new gun"? Waste of money. Bad idea. And almost certainly going to be classified as a NFA device if they try to market it to civilians, since there is no physical way to determine the difference between a "machine gun" version and a semi-auto version since the difference is software. So you might be able to buy one if you want to spend a lot of money for a toy that you may be ordered to turn in to be destroyed for no compensation. Fail. On so many levels. | ||
| Ratbuell |
So...taking the wear & carry class later this month, and getting some range time prior just so I don't look *too* foolish. Put 50 through a 9mm M&P compact last night and really liked it. Good balance, VERY manageable recoil, and I LOVE the sandpaper-textured grip. Super-controllable. Each mag of 10 was in a 3" grouping at 25' (well...4 out of 5...my first shot below horizontal pulled about 3" left). I think I did OK. Not super rapid-fire, but not minutes between rounds either. First time out in I don't know how many years. I plan on spending a few nights on the range between now and class - its a mile from work, class is on the 22nd and 23rd - and open to suggestions for firearms to try out. Likely going to start with a 9mm but may eventually branch out...but for now, looking for 9mm suggestions. Not small-handed, but I'm "thin" - 6'4", 185. Light, not too bulky, easy to operate and maintain are the main goals for me at this point. Ideas? ...because I need another expensive hobby.... | ||
| Ourdee |
For carry: something small and light with a big boom that you can insure is on target when you pull the trigger. We are all different. A lightweight snub nose revolver in .357 magnum or .38 special. That would be my highest recommendation to anyone. Personally I have carried: a Beretta 21A in .22 LR a 1911 lightweight Officers in .45 ACP a Cobray M-11 in 9 mm a Sig Sauer P227 in .45 ACP an AR15 in .556 with 11.5" barrel with a bionary trigger a Rossi stainless snub nose in .357 Magnum a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull with a 7.5" barrel a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 Magnum w/7.5"bbl. Among others. I only carry what I am proficient with. Guess what gets carried most? The rabbit hole runs deep. After you get three, diversify your storage. I don't believe in keeping everything at one site. A small part of the secret, I have a pistol stored in a place I used to live. Only I know it is there. I hid it over 40 years ago. I used to play the Geocaching game. It will teach you how to stash ammo and give you a cover while doing it. I have ammo in multiple States. And of course most of my firearms were lost in a kayaking incident. (Message edited by ourdee on October 04, 2018) | ||
| Ourdee |
After you get one you are happy with, start collecting ammo. If you have one gun, try to store 5000 rounds for it. Always rotate stock. If you buy specialty ammo ie. Plus P, shoot that ammo at the range. I am against using softer shooting ammo to train. Carry extra ammo in magazines, speed loaders, or rubber stripper clips. Have the mindset to stay alert. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yep, I practice with what I carry (years of rifle ownership). No sense practicing with a completely different load than what's carried/used. I do get most of my ammo from georgia arms - they do some quality reloads and their "canned heat" bulk packs are quite affordable. I definitely keep stocked, especially in today's political climate (the main driving force behind my getting the carry certification and HQL now - before the opportunity potentially goes away completely). Carry loads will likely be low-grain hollowpoint, for close quarters/reduced penetration. No sense putting a hole in a bystander simply standing behind the offender. I have experience with dad's old .38 - a '51 Colt 4" OP. Actually prefer the weight, balance, and recoil of the 9mm from yesterday. Time will tell, I have time before the class and time to decide on a purchase. I do like the composite chassis versus the old steel revolver, for weight and comfort, but we'll see. I agree with the simplicity of a revolver though. Situational awareness is a curse of mine. "Sound guy" - I hear everything, and automatically separate sources and locations. Motorcycles also help awareness. I'm not taking this lightly, because of what it is. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Sounds like the M&P is a pretty good fit for now. "Feel" means a lot and it sounds like you are comfortable with it. You might want to tryout the SIG P365 (you'll probably want to stick with the extended floor plate magazine). Then there is always the Beretta APX Compact. It's a little larger than the SIG but the mag holds 13 rounds. One important thing is to find a holster that fits both you and the pistol. And there is always the issue of whether you want to carry IWB, OWB or some other variation. No that you have the bug you'll have more and more questions to find answers to. Have fun. G | ||
| Ourdee |
Take a look at some ballistics charts for 9 mm verses .357. You want to look at barrel lengths that make them comparable. I was surprised by how much a short barrel gives up in .357 and how much a 9 mm rocks in a longer barrel. Just another piece of the equations. Having dabbled in the sound, Wear cans and plugs on the range! I know I'm preaching to the choir, but you never know who may visit. When I shoot the big stuff, I try to stay 2 lanes from the wall. | ||
| Ratbuell |
They've got good cans at this range, not sure the dB rating but I could barely hear a "crack" when I fired. I had my riding plugs with me but cans alone was plenty, at least for the 9. Also a relatively new facility, with nice sound deadening throughout. Speaking from my recording-studio days...I was impressed as soon as I walked in. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Ourdee, There are now available cartridges design specifically for short barreled pistols (faster burning powder). While the .357 is a great cartridge, the guns that use it do not lend themselves well to comfortable EDC. I have a Ruger .357 Black Hawk with a 9mm cylinder and the point of impact with 9mms is significantly lower than the .357. G |
