| Author | Message | ||
     Mnscrounger |
The following is a copy/paste from my post on the EBR forum. I am the winner of the 1190 SX mock up from the LAP liquidation auction. My primary needs for the time being are to title the bike, most importantly I need to know the year it was assembled. MN law will allow me to title it as a "special construction" (which it is) with a statement of facts, a safety inspection, and a bill of sale.  Going beyond that, I would like to gather as much history and back story I can on this unusual bike to preserve it's uniqueness. I haven't done much digging into it. I have a million questions, and I don't expect this forum to be able to answer them all. Hopefully some of you can point me to, (or at least help identify), the people who can more accurately document this unusual bike. Here is what I believe/know so far: The vin #is INF-DDB-02, stamped on both frame and motor, and also handwritten in marker on the front brake rotor. There is a painters tape note on the airbox coversaying "SX from Danny B's bay" Could DDB be the initials of an EBR employee responsible for the build? Can anyone shed light on what the vin nomenclature means? According to the auction description, it's built on an RS frame, it appears to have an RS motor (a guess by Shawn at EBR based on the case color), and has a magnesium sub-frame, as opposed to ( I believe) aluminum version on the production SX bikes. The cylinder castings say "EBR" not "Erik Buell Racing", or even"Buell" There is a note in marker on the ECM that Shawn at EBR told me when we loaded the bike means a 45 tooth sprocket tune on the ECM, and the ECM has the correct part number for an RS. The sprocket is a 46 tooth as opposed to the standard 41tooth on the production RS. All of this suggests the bike is possibly 100% 1190 RS mechanically. The secondary can and pipe finish don't look to ever have been heated. That suggests before running the bike I need to verify the tune in the ECM, or confirm if it was actually ridden in the configuration it is in now (SX muffler and secondary)? Since the body work mount points on the RS frame are different from the production SXs, I need to find out how closely SX production parts match the 3D printed ones on this bike. The left headlight fairing is missing, and before this bike is actually ridden again, I would like to remove all the rare 3D printed parts to preserve them. If production pieces would fit, I'll buy them to put on the bike. By the look of the tires and driveline tunnel, it spent some time on a track BEFORE the 3D printed and other SX body pieces (side fairings) were added. If there is a difference between the prototype and production, I am a Model Maker by trade, and use a 3D printer daily. If I had access to those CAD files (doubtful at this time) I could use them to arrange to make reproductions for actual use. (Though not on my machine. I work for the US government and it would be an ethics issue. ) There are several Buell enthusiasts with 3D printers, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to help this project. reverse engineering them is not out of the question but would take more time. If you have any information that will help me document I would love to hear from you. I know there are a number of EBR staff on these forums who do not wish it to become common knowledge they are here. PM me if you prefer a private conversation. Thank you for reading ( I also apologize for the length) | ||
| Two_seasons |
That DDB is probably Danny Bilansky. He worked at Hal's HD and also at EBR. Last I heard about him, he was studying to be a Nuclear Engineer for WE Energies. Edit: He worked at Buell, not EBR afaik. (Message edited by two_seasons on August 25, 2017) | ||
| Hughlysses |
According to the auction description, it's built on an RS frame, it appears to have an RS motor (a guess by Shawn at EBR based on the case color), and has a magnesium sub-frame, as opposed to ( I believe) aluminum version on the production SX bikes. The production version was magnesium too:  | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Two: you've given me a trail to follow. Thank you. Hugh: Thanks for pointing that out. I probably read that once before, but missed it. (I have so much to learn.) Two down 999,998 to go. | ||
| Hughlysses |
There's a Danny Bilansky on Facebook that works at HD's Product Development Center. Sounds like it could be the same guy. He hasn't posted anything in months, but you might try contacting him through FB. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
Yea I would suggest pinging the 1190 Facebook group as well. A few current/former EBR employees are on there pretty regularly.. | ||
| Snacktoast |
DDB is not a call out for Danny. It's a development stage for a given platform or model. | ||
| Court |
Danny Bilansky was involved in the Buell Lightning Series race program. I **think** I have some posters of him burier in the loft of the barn. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
"It's a development stage for a given platform or model." Can you elaborate without trouble | ||
| Mope |
Phases of design/development? I have a DDB 03 for the 1190 platform... | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Mope: What year was yours built? If I knew when it was actually built, I would have enough to go on to pursue a title. Did you get yours titled? If so what did you call it for a model? (Message edited by mnscrounger on August 26, 2017) | ||
| Mope |
Mine's just for parts so I can't help much on the titling process. There's nothing that indicates a date of production. Off the top of my head, I guess I would check the starter and dash for dates/SN, but would they really know or care if you just said it was 2013 or 2014? Bill of Sale gives nothing? | ||
| Mope |
Also, I think my ECM was labeled XX-DDB-03. Can't remember if there was a date on that, also. Maybe another place to look. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I don't think the state would care one way or the other. I am just trying to be as accurate as I can to preserve the information before it is forgotten. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
After multiple Emails back and forth quoting state statutes, and submitting even more photos, I have assurances from the state once I complete the "statement of facts", the actual application, and pay the money, "DDB 02" will get a regular, un-bonded MN title. since they're relying on me to fill in the blank for the model,and it has an RS frame, I am thinking of calling it RS/X, unless someone has a more accurate description to suggest. Now the fun begins. They will only issue a regular, not collector plate. ( I'm actually OK with that, because if this thing runs, it WILL get ridden to more than parades and shows.) A bike this unusual deserves a vanity plate. I get six alphanumeric characters to work with, Here are a few favorites on my list: SX 002 SXBETA PROTO2 RSXEBR DDB 02 SXMULE MOCKUP I've never been very good at concise, so I'm also looking for some suggestions. | ||
| Mope |
I was looking for this thread and couldn't find it! I'm unsure if there were multiple bikes in each test revisions (more than one DDB-01; DDB-02; DDB-03).....if there weren't, DDB-02 was used for one of the teaser pics before the 1190 series was released to the public! I have DDB03 in the garage - has nice bits like the 1125 Daytona forks, etc. Any fancy parts on yours? https://buellridersonline.com/forum/showthread.php ?t=8520 | ||
| Mope |
also.....was INFINEON the development code for the 1190 platform? I have the EBR transit/inventory tracking system for DDB-03 and the platform is listed as INFINEON. I imagine that's where the INF abbreviation is coming from. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I don't know enough about the variations to tell you exactly what parts are what Matt. I've only owned my one S3 for Buell products. While I'm pretty up on that model, and most of the history, I defer to almost anyone else on here for expert opinions. Did yours come as a complete bike, or as a collection of parts? I suspect the forks are 1125 parts, as the caliper clearly says "Buell", as do the bars. There is also a lot of 3D printed parts I will need to remove for preservation. I may try to reverse engineer them to put "counterfeit", but expendable 3D printed parts, better able to withstand actual use, or I may replace them with NOS. You're probably right on the project/platform nomenclature, (I wish someone from EBR could step up and confirm this.) Although there was also an "Infineon Red" paint color listed in the parts listings early on, I doubt EBR would would start bike ID#s with a color. By chance, is DDB 3 red as well? I have had some private messages from insiders, but only enough to confirm DDB stood for " Design and Durability, Beta". Out of respect for their request for privacy, I did not press for more. INFINEON would make sense for a platform name, and maybe that's what I ought to go with on the registration blank for "model" If its not too much trouble, could you send me a PM with a scan of the tracking document you referenced? I'll me happy to share photos of anything you might want to see. on DDB 2. I don't yet have a battery, but I need to power it up, at least enough to try to get mileage for the title application. Batteries Plus has an AGM that fits in the space, but has less CCA. If I get a battery, I may also try to fire it too. I also need to drain the cooling system because if it was run on a track, I suspect there is nothing but water in there. Frost is only a few weeks away. Hopefully I will find time this weekend. | ||
| Dave |
Many body parts colors were listed as Infineon Yellow, Infineon Blue, etc. I've picked up that it was the 1190 Internal project name i addition to the name of Sonoma Raceway. Makes sense to me (own a Laguna Blue 1190SX) ... Google "EBR Infineon" and see all the hits including favorite results including Podium, Geoff, Danny, Erik, etc DAve | ||
| Mope |
yea, i'll see if I can scan that sheet to you. Of note, it does say 'this bike is ddb03' so i think that probably means there was only one of each beta. mine was in parts.....and i changed frames thinking there'd be no way to register it with vin stamped inf-ddb-03; you're making me wonder if I could have gotten it through as built (but I live in communist Illinois). I think uncovering part usage is some of the fun; while mine has the EBR caliper there's only 1 3d printed part. | ||
| Mope |
also, look at the adjusters on your forks. that will tell you if they were legacy or 1190 forks! | ||
| Mnscrounger |
If yours was in parts, it would end up as a "Rebuilt" or "Reconstruction" title no matter what. ( presuming your a trustworthy enough to tell the truth to the state.) A clean title to a production bike would probably be preferable to a branded title to a one off. Although if you do get it rebuilt and titled as DDB 3, they would look really cool parked side by side at HC 2018.( Jus' sayin'...) | ||
| Mope |
Government bureaucratic rules/regs......not my thing. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Still pondering vanity plate letters while my Insurance agent figures out the policy details. It would be cool to have the motor frame title and plate all have DDB 2, but given the likelihood Infieon was the project/platform. I'm also considering NFNEON | ||
| Snacktoast |
Technically, the RX was "Infineon" and the SX was "Infineon-SX". | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Thank you Snacktoast for that piece of info. | ||
| Steve_a |
DDB stands for Design Durability B, a development phase where parts were supposed to be production intent design but might not have been produced by production processes. All 1190-style subframes were magnesium, but they may have had different paint colors, and they did come in different batches. That subframe was originally developed for the 2011 Buell Barracuda 2, a bike that never saw the light of day other than the one CW story. The EBR version was subtly different. Danny B was Danny Bilansky, a R&D mechanic at EBR and of course a Buell XB racer. | ||
| Steve_a |
DDB 03 would be the third prototype motorcycle of the Design Durability B phase. DDB would have various numbers of machines built depending on what testing was required. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
"That subframe was originally developed for the 2011 Buell Barracuda 2, a bike that never saw the light of day other than the one CW story." Steve: Do I understand this to mean there is a difference between the subframes on DDB bike/s from the production versions? I get the impression you are implying the subframe on the bike I brought home is actually a surviving Barracuda part. I'm also still looking to confirm the dates of assembly, and I would love to hear from an actual test rider for DDB 2. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I fired DDB 2 up for the first time a week ago. ( I had made a video of the initial firing, but my lack of social media skills caused me to delete the video while trying to post it to Facebook. I do have a video of the third firing posted thanks to my daughters instructions.) I needed to confirm the coolant was not just water, so I topped it off and put an AGM battery in it form Batteries Plus. ( It's about .2" thicker but it fits in the hole. I'll need to space the back of the seat up just about that much to clear it.) I also filled the tank with premium non-ox and a bit of marine stabilizer. It cranked for about 6 seconds before it fired. I had forgotten how loud the valve noise seems on a stock exhaust bike. As it came up to temp, smoke started wafting up, and I thought there was a leak somewhere. after kneeling down and checking everything I suspected it was just heaven knows how many months/years of dust on the headers that was cooking off. It stopped once the cooling fans came on and cleared it away. It didn't return on subsequent firings. Even though there are no plates on it yet, ( My insurance policy is still in underwriting, and the state is requiring a policy in place to register the bike with a regular title.) I couldn't resist a quick round the block ride. With a 46T sprocket, this bike is QUICK. I only gave it enough throttle to keep the front tire from lifting, but it was definitely skating, and it went to 9000 RPM and about 60 MPH in about half a block, (the SHORT side). I coasted back to the speed limit while up-shifting just to check out the other gears to see if there were any issues. I never did get to check 6th as I was bogging by the time I got to 5th, and I was not going to hit the freeway with an unregistered bike. So far I seem to own a running super bike with no major issues, and about 1173 miles on it. I kind of feel like the dog who finally caught the car, Now what do I do? | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I went out to the back garage to see how thing fared over winter. (6 mice in the bucket trap.) It's still too muddy back there to get the bike out, but when I do I have real MN plate, and some of the plastic pieces to replace the 3D printed ones to put on. I also am thinking about tips and wanted to check out the ECM. It appears this bike is controlled by an 1125 module ( Y0152.1AMA) I doubt that would present a tuning problem, but it DOES mean I definitely will want IDS in on any changes made. If I decide to make any changes I might consider sending him the ECM to tell me what its set for now, as the tune may not be stock. I was told only the builders know whats inside the motor. I plan to bring the bike to HC in hopes of looser lips for more background info. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Yesterday my wife took her mom out for brunch, and since MY mom waved off on the outing, I decided to spend the day in the garage. I finally dug out the SX Beta, put the plates on it, checked the fluids and fired it up for a real shakedown ride. I bought some used upper fairing and dash cover over the winter. I needed to go buy hardware for the production pieces that replace the 3D printed parts.( I want to preserve those). WOW I thought my S3 pulled like a freight train from 40-80 this thing doesn't even need a downshift. I still need to get more comfortable with the bikes build, and replace the rear tire before I push any farther in speed, or try anything near an aggressive corner. I learned a few things about the bike now that I was able to get through all the gears though. There is a sequence error in the dashboard gear indicator that goes 1-2-2-3-4-5. All the gears work fine, but its an interesting quirk. The suspension is rock hard too. I don't know enough about tuning to mess with it myself. I'll let a friend with tuning experience try the bike and make recommendations. Lastly, does the headlight have to come out to replace the dash shroud? That's the only part of the uppers 3D parts I couldn't get out with the easily accessible screws. | ||
| Froggy |
The sprocket(s) are a different size than what is programmed in the bike. I have the same problem on mine with a 44t rear sprocket, I've been too lazy to go into the ECM and change it. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Froggy: So if I understand correctly, what you're saying is the gear indicator is interpretive, based on engine RPM, and wheel speed. That would explain why it goes blank when I pull in the clutch. | ||
| Froggy |
Nailed it. It should be a 5 minute fix in the ECM, I've done it my 1125s when moving an ECM from my R to my CR which also has a different gear ratio. I do have the fully programmable IDS ECM on my SX so I just need to actually look for the setting and adjust accordingly. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
On the 1190 there are also timing changes that need to be or should be done as well when making changes to the ECM for increased rear sprocket size. Contact Tim at IDS for more info on that. I tested an ECM calibration for him that can support 41-43 tooth sprockets. (Message edited by terrys1980 on May 14, 2018) | ||
| Mnscrounger |
the ECM has a note scribbled on it that says its set for a 45 tooth sprocket. I'd bet money its Tim's handwriting. I suspect he's going to get a look at the ECM one day anyway, just so he can tell me what the heck its tuned for. I don't know what I have in the way of valving, heads, or crank. Its an RS color motor,(so I've been told). It might be a hodgepodge of EBR/1125 stuff in the motor, but it sure runs good. |
