| Author | Message | ||
     Redtail |
2007 Uly had a hard time at low speed could not hold her under 2000 rpm. Dealer could not do a TPS they said the voltage was all over the place and couldn't reset it. Took her home then the bike got worse and wouldn't run at all. Backfired up the intake and exhaust. I started checking all the wires and grounds. Found some mouse tracks and he chewed the rear light wires, fixed them. Then I took a look under the timing cover..well it was turned full retard. So I set it back to the mark it looked like it was at before and now it runs better but at off idle to about 1500 rpm it wants to stall. It has a race ecm that looks like Harley. Any help on how to set the timing and what else I should be looking for would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| Ratbuell |
1. find a new dealer. If they can't handle a TPS reset, don't let them touch the bike again. Ever. 2. step one has to be TPS reset and idle set for 1050. Your symptoms sound like a TPS that's out of whack. You say "race ECM that looks like Harley" - Harley never made a race ECM for a Buell, but Buell offered a unit stamped/engraved "RACE USE ONLY" that came with the race muffler - silver ceramic coated muffler with two outlets, one on each side. If you have an engraved ECM but a stock one-outlet muffler, your muffler has a valve that's not being used by the ECM, which can cause running issues as well. How old are the plugs and wires? How long have you had the bike? How long has it had these issues? Was there a trigger causing the running issues? | ||
| Screamer |
If the cam sensor plate has been moved, at some point you should have the base timing checked/set. | ||
| Redtail |
1. I asked if the dealer could do it and they said yes lesson learned. 2. Can I test the TPS off the bike to see if it is working? 3. The ECM has FOR RACE USE ONLY in white painted on top with two bar code stickers on it with pink lines on the bottom of the bar codes. The muffler is one outlet and the valve does not function and is connected. Bike was in that configuration when I got it. New plugs and wires. Had the bike 5+ years as soon as the issue started I stopped ridding it and it sat. There was no warning it just started running rough and popping at lower rpm then got worse as I got home. | ||
| Redtail |
Where would I set the timing at with the ECM I have? | ||
| Ratbuell |
So nobody changed your timing in 5 years? or the dealer tried to do that when they failed to reset the TPS? A TPS going out of range will be gradual, not light-switch-sudden. Where's your idle speed? Pull your airbox and air filter off, and look down the throat of the throttle body to see if the butterfly rotates smoothly or if it's broken. Some of the early Ulys had throttle body shaft failures which would absolutely be a sudden failure issue. Also check the throttle body for vacuum ports - there is one on there if I remember correctly, but it is not used and should have a rubber cap on it to plug it. If the rubber cap came off you'll have similar issues. Your dealer sounds inept. Now's a good time to get shop and parts manuals so you know your way around the bike... | ||
| Redtail |
It did stumble while riding it and got worse to begin with after the attempted TPS reset. The timing has never been changed as far as I know. Looks like it may have vibrated loose and rotated all the way counter clock ways on its own. going to look for the vacuum plug you mentioned. It will idle smooth at 1000 rpm on its own just under load at 2000 rpm or less it studers or stalls. The butterfly moves smooth with the throttle twist as far as I can see no sticking or hanging up. Where should I get a TPS from? car parts or is it a Buell only part? I am sure it is old and might need replaced. The major problem looks like it was the timing out. It now feels like its in the fuel or air delivery. Would you set the timing at factory with a race ECM? Also should I wire the exhaust valve open, closed or some where in between? Thanks Ratbuell (Message edited by Redtail on February 15, 2018) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've run factory and race ECMs with the same timing - base timing should be the same (I don't recall the race ECM instructions saying anything about a base timing change on install), and the ECM has a different advance curve built in along with different fueling. I've never had to replace a TPS on my Uly. I have replaced them on my turbo Dodges. If you have an old needle-style multimeter (no LCD display) with an ohmmeter, you can test the TPS. Hook the probes to signal and ground pins on the TPS and rotate it through its travel. The needle on your meter should sweep smoothly up and down, no jumps or drops. If it hiccups, you have a dead spot in the TPS and its time to replace it. If you have a smooth sweep, your sensor is fine. My guess is, you need to get a competent shop to lock in the base timing, reset the TPS - AT OPERATING TEMP - and set the idle for 1050rpm, and you'll be fine. Not sure about your area, but if you want to venture north there's good techs here in Hagerstown at Williamsport HD and I believe there's still a Buell tech or two in Winchester. I'd offer, but I didn't keep the CMRlite tool that I borrowed from Erik years ago... Another option is ECMspy - it will allow you to do a TPS reset. But, it will also allow you to lobotomize your ECM if you hit the wrong button. I'd be surprised if you had to replace anything, if your throttle shaft is good as you say it is. You're just way out of tune/adjustment. Run, don't walk, away from that shop and find yourself a new mechanic! | ||
| Redtail |
I do have an analog older Simpson multimeter and will check the sweep. It was at Winchester and the guy that knows and runs Buells was not there the day I was there. He is not there any more now. I still got charged for a half hour. Bent me some. I'm 40 min from Williamsport and will call them. I'm going to check for leaks and double check the throttle butterfly real good and get her set to get the TPS reset. Do you have any ideas about the exhaust and where I should run the valve in it. I don't want to buy a new can for it as I might have to put her up for sale and am trying to not pour a lot of cash in it. Thanks again Ratbuell. | ||
| Screamer |
The base timing is the same regardless of stock or race ECM. The manual walks through the timing process. Despite what the manual recommends, the process is easier if you remove both spark plugs. A voltmeter or other methods can be used instead of the Digital Tech. You can check the muffler valve by pulling on the cable core (at the muffler) to see that it rotates a full sweep. You can check the actuator motor to see if it cycles correctly by removing the air box cover, and (with key off) by holding the throttle wide open, and then turning the key on and kill switch to on. The actuator motor should cycle close/open/close. | ||
| Tootal |
That vacuum port that looses it's cap occasionally is above the butterfly so it's not a vacuum leak, just sucking a little unfiltered air and not your problem. You need to start from scratch and set your timing according to the book. Check the tps for smooth sweep of the voltmeter. I would replace the plugs if you don't know when they were changed last. Check the plug wires for damage and arcing. Fire it up at night and slowly rev it and look for light. Pull the side cover and air scoop off and use brake cleaner to check for vacuum leaks at the intake to head seals. If you hear a change in rpm, you have a leak and you can't do anything till that is fixed. After all that checks good then get a tps reset. | ||
| Redtail |
Tootal I found the vacuum port before I read your post no problem. 3 wires on the TPS and I'm trying to figure witch two to read off of. going to check plugs and wires asap along with intake seals for leak. I am looking to see where to check for voltage at TDC? I will get it squared away before the TPS reset. Looking both checks up on YouTube. Thanks (Message edited by Redtail on February 15, 2018) | ||
| Etennuly |
All of this advice is good, but the very first thing to do on one of these engines is check the spark plugs ! I have seen several good folks over the years spend hundreds of dollars in panic mode going over everything that had no reason to change, then blow out all of it's settings, to find that they had fouled a new set of plugs just after installing them. Of course to has new plugs ! That can't be the problem right! Professional HD mechanics too. When these things foul a plug, that plug will never recover and " dry out" . If it has run rough without changing anything, don't be fooled into thinking all of these things have failed all at once. Short of a lightening strike or a deep salt water soak it doesn't happen until good intending mechanics move everything. | ||
| Etennuly |
Before ECM driven engine electronics every knowledgeable mechanic would pull and read the spark plugs to diagnose a problem. It should be done today even with the electronics. It usually isn't done anymore due to the sophisticated scanners being able to pinpoint so many issues and, because pulling and reading plugs has become too much $ work, sometimes unnecessary even. And some hipowered ignition systems nowadays will run even with the electrodes burned clear off ! But in reality these bikes are a hy-bred combination of an old style hi compression engine fitted with early type ECM and sensors. I hate when mechanics mess with base timing. If that has changed something else is bad wrong and randomly resetting it will not fix much but for a little pinging if you are lucky. I have seen TPS sensors fail rarely. They are subject to wear, but the most common issue I have seen to prevent a true zero setting is a carbon build up on the edge if the throttle plate. I believe this is the cause of the occasional throttle shaft breakage too. If you have seen it, this carbon makes a rough build up on the edges of the throttle plate. Symptoms come on gradually, from feeling just a little stick coming off idle to idle getting a little irradic, likely not being able to hold at 1050 + or - 50 rpms. TPS re-setting can go stupid if the throttle plate is not clean. These are just my opinions and I don't know shit. Well maybe some shit....I stepped in a big dog dump the other day, I fed her again anyways.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Go to the chassis side of the TPS plug. You have a ground - check that one with continuity to chassis. The other two are 12v+, and sensor signal. Key on, and one will have 12v. The one that isn't hot or ground...is your signal. Meter across ground and signal for your sweep test, on the sensor itself. Good call on the intake seal check. But definitely get that base timing reset, and figure out WHY it changed in the first place! | ||
| Redtail |
Found one plug wire NFG. Rear wire on the plug side leaked somehow looked wrong color inside so I pulled it apart. Looks great on the outside but I cant explain how fubar it is inside. Like it spent a week in a Bangkok brothel. Outside still looked good but it won't ohm so I owe you all a beer and a shot. Got new ones on the way. after I looked at the new plugs and never saw any spark jumping off the wires I went to test them and that's when I fount it. So one gremlin down and still looking for more. Will keep you posted. Thanks again  | ||
| Etennuly |
Awesome. Good to hear. | ||
| Redtail |
Found a good plug wire and replaced the bad one. I couldn't wait for the new ones to show I had to try this now. I remember replacing the seal behind the timing cover and found my old mark I made when I replaced the seal. Set it there and fired her up. She runs smooth and idle sits at a tick above 1000. Much better off idle. So lesson learned. Plug wire can look good, not leaking any spark and can still be rotten inside. CHECK YOUR WIRES INSIDE AND OUT. Going to clean throttle body and butterfly, double check timing and then TPS reset. Talked off the ledge again by BWB....Thank You again...... (Message edited by Redtail on February 18, 2018) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
So you think water got in there and corroded the hell out of it? | ||
| Redtail |
Don't know how it got in there. I yanked the boot off to get a good look and found the ring clip that holds the connector to the plug was missing or rotted off and the rest was rusted bad. | ||
| Etennuly |
If the wire's connector that clips on the top of the spark plug is missing the bike was victimized by a bad(unknowing) mechanic. Then they just stuffed the boot back to the plug hoping it would work. Generally the plug "wire" is not a wire. They are woven threads infused with carbon. If pulled out a bit the black carbon can get wiped off leaving a rag looking gray string. The plug wire's inner and outer covers are a silicon rubber that is quite soft and very flexible, but it is not strong. It will contain a lot of voltage but wear through and tear easily. What likely happened is that the wire was not removed from the plug properly. If you were to just pull on it to get it off the plug, the clip end is crimped to the soft silicon wire cover, so it simply will tear off from the wire staying clipped to the plug. | ||
| Portero72 |
 Totally not helpful. But I find it hilarious nontheless. Carry on... |
