| Author | Message | ||
     Macbuell |
What about 2 or 3 trained / certified teachers / administrators in each school ... with a locked rifle safe in multiple strategic locations around the school for easy access? A 9mm carbine would be the perfect rifle. Easy to handle, easy to shoot, incredibly accurate and plenty of stopping power out of a 16 inch barrel with less over-penetration than other caliber rifles. The CZ Scorpion would be perfect. (Message edited by macbuell on February 15, 2018) | ||
| Aesquire |
A lot of my friends are teachers. My mother, an aunt, both teachers, grade school. Education as a system has gone full tilt Marxist indoctrination machine. The only hold outs are teachers and janitors. There are enough clinically Marxist insane teachers to give them a bad rep. But the problem is The Iron Law. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron .html Here you go. It applies to government and companies. You know the saying, Those who can, do.......? Well those who can't teach tell teachers how to do their jobs. I say this as someone proud to have been kicked out of a PTA meeting for asking a blasphemous question. Teachers can't carry guns because Superintendents fear them. The local city school district has been a corrupt, incestuous, failure for years. One Superintendent was bad enough he actually got fired. And sued. The settlement was the District wasn't allowed to comment on his level of suck & corruption. His last act was to establish a self esteem czar, a permanent position that paid $126,000 a year for a nephew. That's more than 3 teachers for a do nothing job. My parents were aghast at how little my generation learned in high school. We got Harvard education compared to today. The deliberate decline in American education is not an illusion. Nor is it paranoia. The unions are not there for the children or the teachers. Their leaders said so. They exist for raw political power. And the greatest power is creating an ignorant permanent underclass for Leftist Masters to rule. ( It's in the manual. Black & white on paper, available to all ) So do not pick on Teachers. Individual idiots, feel free. | ||
| Ratbuell |
My parents were aghast at how little my generation learned in high school. We got Harvard education compared to today. That was somethig else I noted when I was watching kids get interviewed in Florida yesterday/this morning. "gawd, these kids are dumb". I mean, seriously - crappy grammar, awful thought processes, just horrible. I know, they just witnessed a huge tragedy, but basic grammar and grasp of the English language is...well...BASIC. And our educational system as a whole (and honestly the majority of teachers who I know personally) is/are to blame. The system is bad because the majority is bad. Not every teacher, admittely, but overall...yeah, at least around here. My comment about teachers carrying didn't mean "give current teachers a gun". Most of them wouldn't know how to use it nor respect it for what it is. My comment meant "put teachers in place who can not only teach, but also protect". It sucks we have to do this, and I think that with the advent of respect again it wouldn't be a required band-aid...but for now, we've got to do what we can and fix the symptom while we work on the root disease. If conservatives are restrained enough to not brawl in the streets against liberals, we at least need to work to eliminate the soft targets. Eventually, one way or another, respect will come back...but for now, we need the band-aid fix before too many more innocents die. | ||
| Sifo |
The idea that anyone is suggesting "arming teachers" is absurd and turns the argument upside down. I have heard of nobody suggesting that we should arm our teachers. I have heard, and agree with the idea that we can allow teachers to arm themselves, if they choose to take on that responsibility. Two very different things. Words matter. There are plenty of teachers who already carry, when not at school. Many have already made it clear that they would carry in the classroom if allowed. I'm sure there are those who would choose not to. Comparing it to a cell phone being stolen is also a terrible comparison. If you are treating a weapon like a cell phone, you have no business carrying. Still, I have zero concern about my cell phone being stolen by a student. Why? I'm responsible with it, and it never leaves my control. Nothing like the control I would keep over a weapon though. Students should not even know of it's existence. Would I carry on a school bus? I'm not sure. Not with my current set up. Unless the bad guy is making his bad intentions known long before he has to, a bus driver would be at an incredible disadvantage, strapped into the seat, with the door slightly behind. Even worse for a right-hander, where you are pretty much handing your gun to the bad guy to point it at him, assuming you can get it out in the first place. Once the bad guy is past the entrance, I could only imagine taking that shot if he were just blasting away at the kids. Most likely, I've already been taken out by then. A class room can be a very different situation. | ||
| Airbozo |
There have been calls from the far right to arm teachers for years, claiming that would help. I personally feel it would make things worse. Again, let teachers teach and other professionals ensure the safety of our kids, hence my brain surgeon comment. I certainly wouldn't want my brain surgeon worrying about having to defend his operating room against a shooter. I want 100% of his attention on operating on me even if he is a marksman. The cell phone comparison was only to show that kids will do anything to steal other peoples stuff. Yes it is quite a bit harder to remove a weapon from off your person, but not impossible and certainly not unheard of. That also goes back to my training comment. We will solve this. The problem is, letting the politicians solve this will result in a loss of personal freedom and rights. Just like most political solutions. | ||
| Sifo |
There have been calls from the far right to arm teachers for years That's a falsehood. After you have just been corrected on that falsehood, I should probably choose a stronger word. I'm feeling generous at the moment. Words matter. You continued use of those words shows you to be a propagandist. | ||
| Aesquire |
We will solve this Given a generation, and a 190 degree change in direction with our school system, and a Protestant Reformation in Islam, and a change to more honesty in discussing our problems, and probably public executions of most of the politicians.... maybe. School shootings, in particular, are a problem that has not had the causes addressed. School, especially High School, with the Hormone storms, cliques, bullying, is a time of great stress and emotional turmoil. Yet, it's only been fairly recently that kids are doing mass murder suicide. It's not that the weapons are suddenly more available, or more deadly, that's a lie. There were plenty of guns in 1964 and despite advertising, bullets aren't really more lethal. Other than lasers, and ballistic apps that make the math of long range shooting easier, the technology has not changed in a century. Neither has any impact on shooting in a classroom or hallway. Psychiatric drugs? Self esteem programs that have it all backwards? Marxist inspired lack of respect for individual human beings, and group hate politics? ( Gotta be Marxism, not Nietzche ) All of the above and a dozen more reasons? Every time there's a murder that gets headlines, the anti-civil-rights people want to restrict your freedom to protect yourself. Generally speaking they do so, not out of altruistic reasons, but for the same reason Kings and Dictators have restricted the right to self defense in human history. In American History, taking away the right to self defense has massive racist overtones, since the movement can be traced directly to the Slave owner's culture, and the political Party created to promote and defend slavery as a practice. Since most slavery as an institution, is racist, based on the English Model, so is Gun Control. ( not counting Sex slavery, a present and different subject ) The other side of that argument asks why we make the schools a death trap by restricting the rights to self defense? Often that argument is made badly. But it must be obvious that putting up a sign that says, in effect, no one will stop you from murder, here, until the police show up in a substantial part of an hour, does not create a Safe Space, it creates a killing field. So, the OTHER changes in society are responsible, and it must be multifaceted. Part is the abandonment of psychiatric patients into society by politicians who wanted to use tax payer money for their pet programs and not care. Part is the drugs. Prescription mind altering drugs. Drugs that cause subtle, or radical, long & short term changes to thinking, and are at best experimental. We've don't yet know how to predict their effects from individual biochemistry to another. The assumption is you are your chemistry, and changing your chemistry changes you. Not wrong, but not completely right. And stopping the consumption of the drugs again changes brain chemistry. It may be anecdotal, but doesn't it seem that "off his meds" is a common phrase heard in the aftermath of these murder suicides? And related is the use, and prescription of brain chemistry changing drugs as part of the school funding programs. Kids that misbehave, or just are more work, can be doped into submission, and the school gets paid for it. But "can be doped into submission" is uncertain, because the drugs work differently on different people. There are consequences to hubris. School administration and politicians are thinking they can control people, Brave New World style, but the tech is not up to the job. There's the problem of personal privacy vs. public safety, when it comes to people who are crazy, or made to be so by chemistry. That's a real thing that needs to be argued about. I don't have the magic answer. There may not be one. We often hear after a murder suicide that the police had "dealings" with the murderer, or he'd been investigated, or been complained about. That, too is a complex subject and it's own argument. Where do we draw the lines? How do we protect rights? Then there's the Cultural aspect... I think you are being optimistic. But I hope you are right. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hopefully if it becomes known that teachers, and bus drivers, and guidance counselors, and coaches, are ALLOWED to arm themselves...these cowards will pick other targets. "Wait...someone might shoot back? hmmm...maybe I should rethink this...or...maybe I can head to Chicago...". Regardless of the politics, we need to reduce (eliminate) the existence of soft targets. I'd LOVE to see the gun control mantra changed in the press and in the public mind from "guns are bad" to "sure, cops can protect me (and you)...once they get there. I can protect me NOW. So...LET ME." Public executions? ABSOLUTELY. Start with the little prick in Florida. Kids see the "glory" of the massacres; the press coverage; the "immortalization" of the gunman. They never see the consequences. Get the execution - my vote is, go full-on eye-for-an-eye and gunmen get a firing squad - as much airtime as the crime. All channels. All social media outlets. Live. "Kill kids in a school? THIS is what you get. Next." Call me medieval if you want, that's fine. Don't go on a shooting spree and you won't have to worry about it. Respect other humans and you won't have to worry about it. Kill? Be killed. Simple. I'm all for due process...but get it out from behind closed doors. People are STUPID, they have no imagination, they only know what's on facebook or instagram or TV. So...SHOW THEM. And forget the "this program contains graphic images" disclaimers. EVERYONE needs to see these. Make some people sick; it may keep some people from being made dead. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucia l-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/ As of this article it's hearsay that the murderer was on meds. | ||
| Blake |
Airbozo, We don't have to wonder if allowing teachers and school staff to carry concealed would be problematic, it is already the situation in many schools. Objections are unfounded, fanciful hand wringing much of same caliber as that voiced in opposition to concealed carry laws going live across the nation. The actual science, meaning the empirical evidence shows that lawfully armed civilians are more law abiding and when compelled to deploy their weapon are amazingly cool-headed and accurate, much more so than the average police person. "Arming teachers"? No, as Tom (Sifo) noted. That's a misrepresentation, one designed purposefully to spin discussion towards emotion and away from facts. Best to be accurate, no? Allow qualified teachers to carry? It's being done, and it seems to be working well, not a single rampage mass murder at any school where qualified adults are allowed to be armed. The teacher that was killed as he rushed towards the murderer in defense of a group of students... you're actually arguing that it is better that he was prevented from carrying a concealed handgun? Think about that.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think the biggest disconnect for the anti-gun nuts is, they don't realize how responsible gun owners behave. Responsible gun owners make it a point NOT to advertise they have a gun (open carry locales being the exception, of course). A responsible gun owner knows that a gun will instill fear, and irrational behavior. A responsible gun owner has a firm grasp of shoot-don't shoot protocols, and will only reveal their weapon when it's time to use it - and they only use it as a last resort. I agree with the above meme...and would add the reminder that the Texas church massacre was also stopped by a legally-armed citizen with a gun. I said it before - cops can protect me eventually. I can protect me NOW. Oh. Wait. I live in Maryland. Nevermind. | ||
| Macbuell |
The police are an after action investigation unit most of the time. When they are not it is because the happened to luckily be in the right place at the right time. | ||
| Sifo |
Clipped from here. If you are not familiar with the background on this, the link will provide the context.
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| Aesquire |
 Airbozo, you are right that just handing out guns isn't going to make school safer. That's the kind of answer that only a government bureaucrat would come up with. Knowing nothing about the subject, he would insist on a uniform answer to radically different problems. What is real is that "gun free zones" mean happy hunting grounds for the murderous. Perhaps it would serve as a deterrent if you get tortured to death for murder using a gun in a gun free zone? I doubt it for two reasons, old and new. Today, they sue and freak if there's a fixed punishment, since it doesn't let the Judges use their wisdom and judgment. ( arguable, but not nuts ) In the past, picking pockets was a capital offense, and the pick pockets would swarm the crowds at the hangings, because people cheering on death & being entertained are easy to steal from. It's the attitude of any criminal. Just because Charlie got caught, doesn't mean I will. See also, Politicians. I think we can agree that you are off your rocker to go into school and murder people. Don't care what the shrinks call it, since every case is different. We really need to address the crazy problem. The "gun problem" is simply not solvable by banning guns. It can't work. Ban guns and criminals will still have them. The price goes up, but that just means you get poor people using kitchen knives. ( which they want to ban in England. ) You need a magic spell to make all guns go away to stop gun violence. Or Knife violence, or.... And please don't forget that guns are what keep thugs from just beating you to death and taking your stuff. There's always someone bigger, and a group of violent people can always just overwhelm you, and kick you to death, unless you have a means of deadly force NOT DEPENDENT ON MUSCLE POWER AND LONG TRAINING. If there are 5 guys with clubs, and they want to take your wife away to be raped and sold, how likely are you to be so much better than they are that you can stop them with your own club? I'm pretty good with a club. Trained with sword, too. ( which will not be a legal choice, swords are reserved for the aristocracy & their armed guards in any scenario you can think of where guns are banned. And that's been true for centuries. See Japan. ) I'm not sure that I can take out 5 thugs, if they are bigger than me, younger, stronger, and most importantly, willing to let the big stupid one take the hits while they swarm me and kill me. And yes, I've trained against multiple attackers. A lot. If your are small, old, crippled, ( I'm 2 of those ) it's only the repeating firearm that can save you from gangs of thugs. Repeating fire arms are one of the two technologies that make women equal to men. ( the other being birth control ) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Another comment I heard on Fox news, from a political interviewee (I forget whom), about the FL event - "he was on campus with a gun. He could have been on campus with a car, it could be just as deadly. We need to stop blaming the gun and start focusing on the person." | ||
| Airbozo |
I am not trying to push any propaganda. I am merely pointing out what I have heard and read for the last ten years or so (a lot of it from links posted here and other political sites I visit), from many different sources advocating the arming of teachers as the solution to the problem. I also don't have a problem with teachers and administration arming themselves, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I too believe that the mere possibility of armed adults in a school would deter some folks from carrying out a mass shooting. What my argument is, is that we should not rely on armed teachers and instead have armed professional security or police on campus'. People whose sole responsibility is to protect the people on campus. If teachers and administration also want to carry, then all the better, but again, it should not be their primary responsibility to provide armed resistance. Leave that to the professionals. I feel like we are arguing the same thing in a different language. | ||
| Ratbuell |
All agreed here. The "problem", as I said before, isn't guns. It's not the mass shootings. It's a lack of respect. THAT fix begins at home, and in the teaching, and in our culture. I strongly believe that once kids (this generation its probably too late, but future generations I think we still have a shot) are taught - again - to respect human life above all else, we'll see a decline in the concept that mass-killing is a "new normal". Allowing people to arm themselves for possible defense is a stopgap band-aid for the real problem. The trick is to stop these attacks from happening at ALL, either through deterrance (short term), or a total change in societal norms concerning killing (long term). Short term deterrance, as I said before? Public executions for convicted offenders, let copycats and followers SEE what's in store for them. Allow persons of authority (teachers, coaches, security guards, etc) arm themselves if they so desire and if they are qualified. And...ADHERE TO LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. Word is the ball was dropped multiple times in FL, by authorities who had this kid on their radar for multiple reasons. | ||
| Rick_a |
There are a few primary factors that are pretty common in these scenarios. One is the individual perpetrator. For one to believe it's their life mission to go out and kill as many people as possible, they've been failed and given up on for a long time. Another is the community at large. There's always people that claim to have seen warning signs, saw suspicious activity, or even knew their intentions and did nothing. Lastly is the failure of law enforcement and related agencies. In most cases the individual was already under investigation, law enforcement had been directly tipped off, and existing regulatory systems and framework failed. They slipped through the cracks, not because there aren't enough laws, but because the existing framework was not implemented effectively. My kid was telling me about how he doesn't like that active shooter drills have kids packing into closets and bathrooms. Yeah. That seems pretty stupid. It would seem more rational to have kids escape out of every possible opening instead. Accountability would be difficult, but it would seem better than being a fish in a barrel. | ||
| Sifo |
You arm soldiers. When you become a soldier, you are issued a weapon, and trained to use it. I've never heard ANYONE suggest such a thing with teachers. What my argument is, is that we should not rely on armed teachers and instead have armed professional security or police on campus'. People whose sole responsibility is to protect the people on campus. That's exactly what this school had. Of course, it was only a single officer. I'm sure due to budget. I've got some good stories on school budgets. I may tell some soon. I feel like we are arguing the same thing in a different language. Perhaps. I'm trying to get you to use the proper language. Words matter. "Arming teachers" is words of propaganda. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pilot-for ced-make-emergency-landing-12038181 When did gas become voluntary? Does this airline expect people to not barf on request? How can anyone write this story with a straight face? Who's more stupid? Airline rep or reporter? & they wonder why they have a bad reputation. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/02/16 /reporter-becky-griffin-fewer-mass-shootings-babie s-aborted/ I have to agree with this reporter. If all the kids now adopted had been murdered at or before birth, they wouldn't commit crimes. But that's a limited view she uses to make her pro death point. If everyone about to be born or already born in poverty was killed then there'd be no welfare problem or deficit. Even I can see that is over the top & impractical. ( if only because that smaller labor pool makes salaries higher. Heaven forbid we have to pay legal wages to our illegal alien servants and lawn workers ) & before someone puts words in the nice pro-choice lady's mouth, I doubt that she would sign on to the idea that since most crime in American black culture is black on black, that aborting all black babies is the solution. I mean, she probably secretly feels that way, but wouldn't admit it. No, she draws the line not at a racial one, openly, but at the moral barricades I wasn't even aware were there. Who knew killing orphans was for the greater good? | ||
| Aesquire |
https://pjmedia.com/trending/5-things-terrible-med ia-communicates-every-potential-school-shooter/?ut m_source=PJMCoffeeBreak&utm_medium=email&utm_term= February2018 | ||
| Zac4mac |
that aborting all black babies is the solution. Isn't that how Planned Parenthood started, or is that a myth? | ||
| Aesquire |
Yes, Planned Parenthood's founder was a white supremacist who wanted to reduce the number of the lesser breeds and focused her efforts on black neighborhoods to do voluntary genocide. She's gone now, but her organization is doing a great job on her legacy. ( you might disagree on the great part if you oppose racist genocide. But it's her desire, & it's ongoing success is real ) | ||
| Rick_a |
Yes. She was an advocate of eugenics and referred to what she perceived as lesser breeds as human weeds. All awful stuff. | ||
| Aesquire |
Looked at with no moral judgment, Margaret Sanger has been more successful than Adolf Hitler at killing in the name of Eugenics. That her "success" is from a voluntary program with no need for armed guards, railways diverted from vital transport to deliver the victims, or guarded camps is astounding. However if you have moral objections to racial genocide your admiration for Margaret may not be that much. | ||
| Rick_a |
The basis of all "progressive" thinking, philosophy, ideologies, policies and agendas is to entice and perpetuate the worst of everything that has befallen modern man on a socio-political basis. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-t n-fake-videos-20180219-story.html This probably belongs in the science thread. In this thread context, expect to see fake Trump videos being "leaked". Think of the worst lies you can tell, then go further. It's amusing to me, who pushes the history of porn as a major driving force in technology, that the second commercial use I heard of for this tech was porno. Marilyn Monroe in a frat house orgy? Gal Gadot spanks? The lawsuits are already on the docket. The first? ( that I heard of ) quite a bit more primitive. Your voice from a synchronized anime figure. Some heavy set male with a cute asian school girl avatar had a glitch and he showed through on his video show. Vlog? The short form is don't believe what you see. They couldn't fake the moon landing. They will be able to fake you as President in the White House riding a unicorn with Drew Barrymore fighting orcs with light sabers. Good luck. | ||
| Blake |
MSNBC anchor Alex Witt : “That woman, when she’s saying she’s concerned that black people will be shot in the street....Is that a legitimate concern for her? Because, that’s scary.” https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/rich-noyes/20 18/02/19/flashback-cnn-and-msnbcs-enthusiastic-cov erage-russian-sponsored-anti Bloody hands and sedition. |
