| Author | Message | ||
     Grand |
I have read that this bearing can fail through lack of oil and some fit a grease nipple mod. Was just wondering if tipping the bike over to the right would get the gearbox oil into the bearing. Maybe someone who has had one apart would have an idea. Or would it work even if the bike had to be laid down nearly horizontal? I'm also thinking of buying a few new oil seals and taking old seal out and oiling bearing periodically. What is best way of getting seal out? | ||
| 651lance |
You shouldn't need to tip it over to lube the bearing. We haven’t seen a high failure on these bearings. When we see a failure it’s due to no oil or not changing oil. Run a good oil and a full quart of it and there should be any issues. My guess most of the bearing failures out there are due to lack of oil changes. When slamming the Bike in gear and not keeping the clutch cable adjusted probably will grind and chip the gears. Changing the oil will flush out the metal and clutch fibers out helping the longevity of all the bearings. Oiling the bearing once in a while won’t help to he longevity of the bearing. No lube for 2000 miles. 4K plus repair.  | ||
| Etennuly |
My Uly has 64,000 miles on it. I purchased it new. Every engine oil change, and primary oil change have been done at the proper intervals. All original clutch and everything inside there, but for a new clutch cable. Dealer replaced the out put shaft seal at 3700 miles when it began leaking. Shortly after installing my second replacement belt with all of its tightness, the bearings have begun the howl that they make as they go bad. Except for the tightness of the belt, I see no reason for this one to have failed. I got the new improved bearing assembly from Lance. I will be installing it in the near future. Any oil or grease you put into the bearing on the right side is subject to mixing into your primary oil. Since the clutch and stator run in this oil I can't see that being a good thing. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
The plug with grease nipple is also for protecting the needle roller bearings. The stock plug can let water through over time to ,and with little to no lubrication it is not a good end. The grease plug is originally from the UK ,over here in Europe destroying the output and or needle bearings is a totaled motorcycle. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
http://www.ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=74 2 | ||
| Ratbuell |
The only time I've had output shaft bearing issues was on an eight year old S1W that I bought with 1100 miles on it. Chronic living on its sidestand put the bearing "uphill" from the transmission for years of disuse and drying out. I rode it for about a week and it locked up on me. Regularly-used (and maintained) bikes, I've never had an issue. | ||
| Grand |
"Chronic living on its sidestand put the bearing "uphill" from the transmission for years of disuse and drying out" I keep mine propped against a wall away from the side stand, partly to try to avoid this, (and it makes it convenient in my garage to get another bike out). Still wondering if tipping the bike over to the right further on occasions would get oil in the right places and save me having to fit the grease nipple plug? Gearbox oil is changed as per manual, just considering a bit of preventative maintenance. | ||
| Etennuly |
This is a good possibility as to why it might fail. Prior to mine failing I installed a new belt but have put less than a thousand miles on it over three years. Parked on the side stand months at a time. Interesting. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The bearing isn't "in" the oil regardless; it's strictly splash-lubed by the gearset during operation. My only assumption with all the sidestand time was that putting it at an angle made it "easier" for the oil to drain out, as opposed to a little bit still sitting on the lower arc of the bearing race for startup situations. | ||
| Etennuly |
Given that and the condensation factor, I can see how the bearing surfaces could start out dry after a long rest period. | ||
| Jasonmcelroy |
I've had two clutch shell bearing failures in the same year. First was my fault. Water had entered the clutch cable boot and I wasn't checking the fluid frequently enough. Milkshake oil resulted and bearing rust and destruction soon after. Second time around was a complete surprise to me. I had a new clutch cable. Checked the primary oil and chain tension almost weekly for a couple months because I wanted to monitor. Oil level perfect and no sign of moisture every time. Then one morning heading for work I heard the howl. Dammit. I commute on this bike (30mi/day) every day of the year so sitting around is not the issue. When I took it apart the oil was fine. I'm convinced this bearing is just a •••••• setup. For one, there's not a lot of clearance for oil to get to the bearing. The thrust face has four grooves but I think this is insufficient. Being needle bearings, there's not a lot of inter-bearing space (used to know the name for this) to allow oil to enter. And finally, a gravity/passive lubed bearing at the center of a constantly rotating assembly has centrifugal force working against it. (That's why assemblies have oil slingers that work). I understand that bearing set depth is important to allow the grooves in the thrust face to deliver oil and set it properly. My conclusion: •••••• design. Jason | ||
| Hughlysses |
IIRC, it's possible to replace this bearing without splitting the cases, correct? | ||
| Jasonmcelroy |
Sorry. Realized that posted about the clutch shell bearing when the output shaft bearing was what was being discussed. Tried to delete but too late ;-0 Jason | ||
| Ratbuell |
Actually IIRC the clutch hub bearing (presuming that's the one you speak of) is submerged - at least partially - when you have the primary fluid at the proper level. It's the same design that's been used on hundreds of thousands of big twins and Evo XL motors, for decades. I'd suspect some other issue with your particular motorcycle. I know fluid choice can affect clutch friction plates as well as stator windings - perhaps a wrong fluid has been used in your primary, causing friction plate deterioration and pieces of material floating in the fluid have crapped up the bearing? Or, something is/was misaligned during an assembly or a service at some point, putting unequal stress on the clutches and bearing? | ||
| Tootal |
It's not submerged but relies on splash. I've got over 50,000 on mine with no problems. I've gone over 100,000 miles on my big twin without a bearing failure. I'd check a parts diagram and make sure somethings not missing.??? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yeah, I know it isn't submerged, but at least the lower section "dips" into the fluid so the spinning action self-splash-lubes it. | ||
| Grand |
"IIRC, it's possible to replace this bearing without splitting the cases, correct?" I read a post last week with detailed pictures of how to change bearing without splitting crankcase. Done a search but can't find it now | ||
| Dan_m |
A link to the other forum describing how to replace the bearing without splitting the case: https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?49513 -swapping-output-shaft-5th-gear-bearing&p=548319&v iewfull=1#post548319 | ||
| Odd |
Hey Lance I was looking at that picture you posted and I could be wrong but that looks like the wrong primary chain? | ||
| Ratbuell |
No (speaking for Lance, possibly out of turn) - that's just a primary chain with no tensioner shoe assembly installed. Usually that lower slack/droop is swayed upwards by the tensioner shoe. | ||
| Odd |
Yes I know the adjuster was missing but it looked like there was too much slack. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Too much slack for a new chain. Looking at the rust I bet every pin is worn halfway through. | ||
| Woodnbow |
And for post 08 bikes the No Splitting method won't work. Our bikes have a different bearing assembly, two rows of bearings. If it goes you must split the cases. | ||
| Grand |
I didn't know the post 08 bikes had two rows of bearings in the gearbox, just the rear wheel. Is this to prevent the bearing from going in the first place like for the rear wheel? | ||
| Ratbuell |
The 08 didn't have a 3 bearing wheel unless it was retrofitted. The only bikes that came stock with a 3 bearing rear wheel were all of the tube frame bikes, and the 2010-up bikes. 03-09 had a standard, two-bearing wheel (one on each side). | ||
| Grand |
Did they have 2 bearing gearbox’s? My xt has the 2 bearing rear wheel, thought it was a 09 model registered in 2010, were some 2010 models registered in 2009 ? | ||
| Ratbuell |
2 bearing wheel would be correct for a 2009. 3 bearing wheel would be correct for a 2010. 2010 giveaway is dual oxygen sensors, one in each cylinder's head pipe. Some very early 2010s may have been retail sold in calendar 2009; I can't recall when they actually started arriving in our dealership though. | ||
| Screamer |
2010 Buells began shipping in either July or August of 2009. I suspect many 2010s were sold in 2009 due to the close-out sale offers that began in October of 2009. | ||
| Etennuly |
If you look at the out put shaft bearing in that linked video you will see that it is a single row of large ball bearings with a spacer. The new replacement is a double side by side bearing pair in a single race where the spacer is also built in. The new bearings are smaller diameter higher numbers bearing balls that side by side will distribute the bearing's side load better. It eliminates center o ring seal for the spacer by being part of the center race. Much better load handling design IMHO. But it will have the same chance of failing from becoming dry or potentially rusty even , from long term parking on side stand. I doubt oil in primary is high enough to get there sitting straight up. Seems like long nonridden period, it might be a good idea to tilt it to the right to get some initial oil into the bearing. Should only take a minute depending how cold it might be. I will get a pic of the new bearing up soon. On the newer bikes it still will NOT require splitting the cases if you follow the instructions in the video. The main outer race fits in the side case the same as the older bearing does. | ||
| Etennuly |
  Note higher number of smaller balls. Spacer part of center race. |
