| Author | Message | ||
     Ehjort |
Henrik, Thanks man, I wish I could help you out as much as your helping me. Maybe someday, Thanks again, and ride safer than I Eric | ||
| Henrik |
Eric; you're very welcome - that's one of the charms of the board; there is usually someone who knows the answer and is willing to share. Good Karma and all that  Henrik | ||
| Grndskpr |
Need a little WP front fork info: I have rebuilt, kinda, my front forks, but in my zeal to take them apart i forgot to mark down which per load shims go with which fork, plus i have installed the 1kg spring so i was hoping someone might be able to give me a little heads up as to how many preload shims i would need on each(comp and rebound) side 200 lbs rider, riding the street 1kg springs buell S3 thanks much Roger | ||
| Smadd |
Fork Seal Replacement on a '98 S3... has anyone done it themselves? Tips? Warnings? I think I'll try replacing the leaky seals this weekend. After searching the website, I didn't find much info, other than guidelines for making a driver out of PVC pipe. I have a stand and I've had the forks off a few times. I've replaced steering bearings myself and changed out the fork oil... so the initial disassembly doesn't bother me. I was just hoping that someone might have done it themselves and have a few tips. BTW... I do have the service manual. Thanx in advance! Steve | ||
| Henrik |
Roger; preload shims?? like on top of the springs? In that case there should be the same amount of preload in both legs. Since you're using heavier springs, you will need to change the amount of preload anyway, so you'll need to do the "trial-n-error" thing. Get a couple of helpers so you get the numbers right. Steve: no experience with upside-down forks, but not having the right tool, I severely butchered a set of seals on a Lowrider. That said, I'd think some plastic tubing of the correct inside diameter could do the trick. Henrik | ||
| Jasons1 |
OK guys....maybe I'm just a dumbass, but now I'm more confused than ever. This is all concerning replacing the belt and isolators on my '96 S1. I followed your advice, did a search, and printed everything out. I've got both service bulletins, the advice above, the HUGE document that S1Lightning was good enough to post, and the service manual. Now the question is WHICH ONE DO I USE???? I would think to use the most recent service bulletin, and that's what I'm leaning towards. But I don't have the frame spreading tool, so I was looking at everything else for tips. Then I see the method that involves simply removing the swingarm block by those 4 bolts, and that seems easier than borrowing an engine hoist and going through that whole process. I've already got the following things removed: - Complete exhaust system - Gas Tank - Tailsection - Swingarm cover/support bracket - Both footpegs I feel as though I'm already half way done with the service manual version, but since everything else was published after it was, I'm assuming that those are better methods. Also, I'm nervous about cracking the front engine mount (by jacking up the frame), and would perfer not to have to even go through all of that if I can simply remove the whole swingarm and mount as a unit from the motor. I'm shooting to get this thing started this weekend, and any further words of wisdom you guys could offer would be appreciated. Sorry if this post had a bad tone, but I'm just a little stressed about this whole thing and want to be sure I'm going about it the right way. Thanks again guys. - Jason | ||
| S1lightning |
Jason, Just make sure you loosten the front motor mount that bolts to the #1 head!!! Never done one myself!! (Thank god) But it sure seems the post I posted above has been used many times by different people and they say it works well. Good Luck, be patient, I am never am!! | ||
| Smadd |
Henrik... thank you for the response. I think I know how to do it... I suppose I was looking for a "Hey... I did it... it ain't too bad... go for it!" -OR- "Forget about it... it's a bear... you need $88888888 of special tools and a 49 hours!" I'll fill in the results of the work when it's done. Hopefully this weekend. I won't ride with a drippy seal. Steve | ||
| Jasons1 |
Well, I finished my belt/isolator install over the weekend on my '96 S1. Luckily, I had a nice engine hoist, and South East HD/Buell was nice enough to borrow me their "isolator tool"/frame spreader. The job really wasn't THAT BAD. You guys had me scared. The biggest part was really all the disassembly to get to the isolators, but that is really just bolt and unbolt type of work. Actually putting the isolators in really only took about 5 minutes/side (with the tool!). The old ones popped right out and the new ones slid right in. It was kind of tricky to line the pins up with the holes in the isolators, but it wasn't that tough. My rear isolators really looked fine, but I figured since I was going in there to do the belt, I might as well replace them. I do a lot of wheelies/stoppies, so I'm kinda hard on them. A couple pieces of advice. Definetely have a nice hoist or lift available. Also, make sure you do unbolt the two mounting bolts from the front head. It will require that you support the engine solidly with a jack (or it will hit the ground!), but if you don't do it, I definely see you having some trouble in the near future with your front head mount. If you can borrow that "isolator tool"/spreader, GET IT. It really made the job easier. Lastly, TAKE YOUR TIME!!! That's about it. If anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to do my best to answer them. I feel as though I'm only a decent wrench, but I got through this one fairly easily. - Jason | ||
| Mikej |
I wonder if anyone could post a pic of the magical frame spreader tool? That would be nice. | ||
| Josh_ |
Don't use it. it's better to compress the isolator than spread the frame. | ||
| M1combat |
"Steve: no experience with upside-down forks, but not having the right tool, I severely butchered a set of seals on a Lowrider. That said, I'd think some plastic tubing of the correct inside diameter could do the trick" Used that method last weekend on an old Honda (I assume we are talking about fork seal seating??) and it worked like a charm. On the Honda there was a seal then a large bit thin metal washer and then the "c" clip. I pressed the seal as far down as I could with my fingers, put the washer in and then placed the "C" clip in. I then took a length of black PVC pipe of the right size (picked up at Home Depot for cheap) and beat the snot out of the end of the pipe with a claw-hammer. In retrospect I think a rubber mallet would have worked a LOT better, but I got the job done. | ||
| Jasons1 |
Josh, I don't think that the tool really spreads the frame. From what I could see, it seems like it actually compresses the isolator on the other side of the frame. I 100% recommend using the tool. Hands down. It has a stop on it to limit the amount of travel so that you cannot "spread" it too far, and it's super easy to use. If you print out the newest service bulletin above, it has a picture of the tool installed in the proper position to "spread the frame". It's got a handle like an allen wrench, and then a nut that you turn to "spread the frame". | ||
| Buellkowski |
I just did a search on "cornering" in the Knowledge Vault. Maybe you guys can help flesh out some details about rear shock adjustment? Before my 5K mi. service, my bike's rear was tossing me over straight-line bumps (the previous owner was bigger than me). I asked the service dudes to readjust the shocks for a 175 lb. rider. The straight-line ride is better, but now the rear skips over bumps on cornering. One of Henrik's previous posts suggests more rebound in the rear, but wasn't too much rebound my problem to begin with? I know I can adjust this myself and I'd truly appreciate your ideas so I'm not chasing my tail with a preload/rebound conundrum.  The tire pressure is exactly correct. | ||
| Easyflier |
I'd try reducing compression damping. I think that falls under "chattering" in the service manuals trouble shooting guide. For riders between 150-180 rear setting preload ramp 2, front preload 4-5 lines showing. Average roads, sport riding rear compression 1-1/4, rebound 1-1/4, front forks compression 1-1/2, rebound 1-5/8. The manual should give you a good starting point, you really don't know what the tech adjusted until you check it out yourself IMO. * note: These are for reference on XB models only. edited by easyflier on May 06, 2004 | ||
| Henrik |
If you need more preload in the rear, the sign is quite obvious - it feels like the bike is wiggling it's "butt", sort of a gyrating motion. Henrik (who's generally not opposed to gyrating  ) | ||
| Josh_ |
Really? Guess I'll increase it in the RS. What's the sign you have too much rear pre-load? (speaking of the RS it's getting a Metzeler Z6 on the front right now - I hope the rear Z6 will be in next wekk. They look cool. I hope they work.) edited by josh_ on May 06, 2004 | ||
| M1combat |
Sounds like too much rebound damping but I refuse to make suspension recommendations. When the rear hits a bump the suspension is compressed. When the rear tire clears the bump the "goal" is to have the rear tire follow the contour back down the trailing edge of the bump. If you have too much rebound damping then the tire will be suspended in the air because the damper won't let the suspension extend fast enough. The rear end is then in the air and drops until the tire makes contact again. In our case (at a lean angle) the drop is at an angle and the rear "hops out". The other explanation - Too much compression damping... The rear tire hits a bump and too much of the force is transmitted into the bike lifting the rear of the bike too much. As the rear tire rolls off the top of the bump and begins to roll down the trailing edge of said bump it may reach the end of it's travel and leave the ground. The rear hops out. EXACTLY how does it feel? Does the initial bump feel too abrupt and it hops out (too much compression AND MAYBE too much rebound)? Does the bike handle fine just as you hit the bump but hops out just after the rear tire clears the peak of the bump(too much rebound)? I say set it exactly as the book says to for your weight with gear. What are your sag measurements? Set these correctly and you should have the proper spring preload. AFTER that, it's time to tackle dampers. I say set it to stock for your weight first, then see what it does. | ||
| Buellkowski |
I shoulda noted my current settings before I started this; I'll take a look tonight. M1, based on your descriptions (very concise  ) the initial problem was too much compression damping. Currently, the rear wheel hops out AFTER hitting an "irregularity" (bump, pothole, etc.) while cornering. It always surprises me because I scarcely feel the bump to begin with, then feel like I'm going to high-side when the rear skips out from under me. Lean into a nice corner at speed this way and your sphincter, too, will tighten up a bit.  | ||
| M1combat |
"Does the bike handle fine just as you hit the bump but hops out just after the rear tire clears the peak of the bump(too much rebound" "It always surprises me because I scarcely feel the bump to begin with, then feel like I'm going to high-side when the rear skips out from under me." That sounds like too much rebound damping (which will occur if you lower the spring preload and not the rebound damping). The damper is not allowing the tire to rebound (extend) as fast as the bump is leaving it therefore it gains altitude or the rear of the bike drops (or a little of both). Here's the thing... If you lower the REAR rebound damping you will allow more weight to be transfered TO the front tire under braking. I don't know enough about motorcycle suspension to say exactly what will happen (I'm learning though) but in a car this will promote oversteer on turn in (rear is light - more prone to slide). On a bike... I am pretty sure (but not certain) that it is safer to have the rear slide as opposed to the front but what you really want is balance. "It always surprises me because I scarcely feel the bump to begin with, then feel like I'm going to high-side when the rear skips out from under me." This leads me to believe that you are correct in thinking that it's rebound damping and NOT too much spring preload. If there was too much spring preload then you would feel the bump more abruptly initially. From your description it seems to me that the initial problem was too much spring preload and/or too much compression damping. I still say the best thing would be to set the suspension by the book for your weight. IN A CAR.... Stiffer suspension on the FRONT will cause understeer. The front will slide. IF your bike was setup for a heavier person and then was changed AT THE REAR for your weight you may have a setup that is stiff on the front end. I can only assume that this could be a bad situation. Again... I say that the best thing may be to set the bike by the book. I think this should give you a balanced setup with a tendency toward safety/recoverability. The setup of an S3 may not be as touchy as my XB but I know the XB's are VERY sensitive to suspension and tyre pressure changes. I can tell the difference if one tire is a pound or two off. After saying all of this... I don't personally trust my knowledge of motorcycle suspension setup (I do trust my grasp of car suspension though). My XB is setup by the book exactly as it was delivered from Waterloo. I love the way it handles BTW  . | ||
| Henrik |
I'd suggest reading up on suspension tuning to get a better idea of what does what when: Check out Marcus McBains site. He's done some nice XB suspension set-ups and have ton of info on his site. Also, there was an article in Fuell with suspension discussion and settings from one of the racers turned factory test rider (spacing out on the name??). Finally, a quick google search for motorcycle suspension tuning yields links to Sport Rider articles and a bunch of other similar texts. Some I found awhile back (don't have them handy) have nice lists of how different suspension "issues" will feel when you're riding. Hope this helps Henrik edited by henrik on May 06, 2004 | ||
| 99x1 |
While putting my wheel back on this morning, I decided to make a gauge to set the axle even in the swingarm. Measured the correct length with the swingarm disconnected and raised to maximum belt tension - then cut a spacer from 1/2" stainless cut down to 5/16" where it goes in the swingarm.  . Shoulder length on mine was 1.264". Makes it very quick to put the wheel on - pull wheel back, put everything on, push in on the wheel while tightening the axle.  . Belt length seems to stay pretty consistent with use, but shim washers could be added on the smaller portion to tighten if necessary. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Wow. You have way too much free time. Not that that's a bad thing, though. | ||
| 99x1 |
".. have way too much free time" As I have a lathe in my garage, it took about 15 minutes to make the spacers (and it's raining!). Each time you take the wheel off, you have to use a vernier caliper to align the axle back to the swingarm. As well, the rounded end on the bolt allows the plate to move up and down on the front edge - making it difficult to accurately measure/align. Belt tension is also very easy to set too tight, which will ruin the rear hub and front bearing. This actually saves time, looks cleaner, and is a good rainy day project.... | ||
| M1combat |
Very nice 99 . | ||
| Henrik |
John, that's a really nice idea. Thanks for posting. Henrik | ||
| Dueller |
Over the past few years, I've ridden nothing but My S1W or my M2 "beater" save for an occasional jaunt on an old Softtail. These are the only two Buells I've ever ridden as they're rare as hens teeth in my parts. This past weekend, a friend lent me his BMW 1100R sport tourer and now I'm in a quandry. The Bimmer just felt so much more "planted" in turns than either of my Buells. Waaaay down on torque, but really stable in sweepers. Obviously the BMW has a longer wheelbase and there was the tire difference (running Dunlops on my bikes...his had some Metzlers) but it was disconcerting moving back to the S1W, which felt nose heavy and skittish. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't begin to play with the suspension settings to see if it can be improved. I understand they're different animals... Any thoughts beyond I'm clueless about how my bikes "should" feel? Moved from the Quick Board... | ||
| Smadd |
You said it yourself... "different animals". At times, even my old Sportster felt more "planted" in sweepers with it's longer wheelbase and slower steering. But it's that same "planted" feeling that doesn't allow some of the quick handling traits that make the Buell so much fun in the twisties. Get one of each! That's what I'd love to do. In the meantime, if you really feel there *is* a problem (you used the term "skittish"... you might want to check/replace your steering bearings and service/adjust your suspension. "I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't begin to play with the suspension settings to see if it can be improved." If by "improved" you mean have it feel like the BMW... that's not likely. The designs are just too different from each other. Steve edited by smadd on May 10, 2004 edited by smadd on May 10, 2004 | ||
| Dasxb9s |
I have an 2003 XB9S and a 1995 BMW R1100RA (A=ABS brakes) I LOVE them both... but two different rides. The BMW has Parabellum windshield, hard bags, back rest and nylon top bag, and other camouflage... to hide the fact it is a sport bike. I have spun the rear tire "git in on it" at 80mph rolling across a lane stripe in a lane change... and touched 120 mph riding two up... without any effort and the smoothness and handling at Autobahn speeds was unbelievable! I rolled on the throttle passing a truck... and very quickly I had the sensation of going "very fast"... looked at the speedo and it was dropping from 120mph. It had more in it at that point... I let off when I felt too fast... not because I ran out of go. Until you ride one... you would never guess how well they handle in the twisties... I call it BMWs best kept secret. The R1100R (R1150R, Rockster) is their naked sport bike. They handle VERY well... for their size... great sport touring. The weird part is blipping the throttle at a stop and feeling the torque of the engine pull the bike to one side. I have no trouble keeping up in the twisties or straights. You can lean them until the heads drag! Two different animals. The bunch I ride with took an experienced riders course... I was the only one riding other than a Buell in the class. The BMW was head and shoulders above in the slow speed stuff tight stuff... tighter turns, etc. Don't judge your Buell or compare it to the BMW. The suspension on the BMW is totally a unique system... and it rides and handles uniquely. The engineering on the BMW suspension is years of improvements from Autobahn and racing experience. By age... the Buell engineering is still in the puppy stage... and the XB system has caught up with this experience they took years to fine tune. Ride an XB. I have hopes of a scaled up XB system on a sport tourer... then the BMW may be replaced with a sport touring Buell. I can only hope... but will also hope the BMW will get to stay. I'd hate to let it go to upgrade... but a sport touring Buell would be too cool!!! By-the-way... trivia Beemer = motorcycle Bimmer = car | ||
| Evaddave |
Das,
Why is there a difference? They're both pronounced the same, right? -Dave |
