| Author | Message | ||
     Gonen60 |
More engine parts, Like Harley Davidson does for the HD engines. Screamn eagle makes lots of race parts. like the 1200 kit for the 883. New heads, pistons, cams etc.•••••• would be great if you could go to your local HD/Buell dealer, order the high performance buell motor kit, and have it installed there, like they do for the HDs. | ||
| Johncr250 |
That would be awesome! Make too much sense though, management would never go for it! | ||
| Gonen60 |
 good one 250 | ||
| Fst_tyms |
Their heads are too far up their butts for that! Plus, if they did, they would charge double the price of the NALLIN stuff and it would fall apart faster and put out less power. Don't waste your time or money waiting for Buell to put something good out, for a race application. You want it, you have to build it! | ||
| M1combat |
Which is a better proposition IMO anyway... You learn more. I would almost rather build an engine myself and have it lunch upon first start than pay someone else to build it. Granted, I would like to buy parts from a place where I can call a good tech for any little thing as I'm building it... | ||
| Fdl3 |
Wow, I am sensing a little cynicism... | ||
| Gonen60 |
some people don't have the time, place, tools or know how to do an engine build. Be nice if you could count on your buell dealers trained mechanics to handle the job. they do it for the HDs, just curious why not the Buells. No doubt at this point, Erik Buell knows almost all of us want more power. | ||
| Gonen60 |
create a real buell race kit. pipe, ecm, filter, heads , pistons, cams, etc | ||
| Bomber |
math is the reason -- not lots of buell riders in the first place (although growing), standard marketing rule of thumb sez that for every ten folks that express interest in a product, one will actually spend money (on a good day) . . .. the numbers just don't add up -- specially when the aftermarket is as healthy as it is | ||
| M1combat |
Didn't mean to be cynical at all... I just like to learn  . | ||
| Glitch |
Gonen60, Don't forget the Digital Technician to go with that ECM. Aftermarket is where it's at. Look at any popular bike, SV650 for example. Suzuki offers very little more than some look good stuff, the aftermarket on the other hand carries most everything you could ever want for it, and then some. Aftermarket is where it's at. | ||
| Gonen60 |
I'm just thinking on the lines of the HD ScreamN eagle catalog of race/performance parts. Why not a Buell line of Race/Performance parts? Simple to take your 883 in to the dealer and bump it up with the 1200 kit. Be nice to be able to do the same with your XB. | ||
| Bomber |
Gone again, look at the math, and especially the demographics of who's buyin those screaming eagle parts •••••••••• ain't the folks that have been riding HD for 20/30/40+ years (I know, gross oversimplification •••••••'s a featuer AND a benefit) ••••••••'s relatively new riders, or new HD riders, and I'll bet it's, ehem, slightly older riders . . . . . use to was, HD didn't have Hi-Po parts that a civilian could buy . .. . . . . then, they discovered that lots of folks were making dough selling parts that HD could make, and easily . .. . each aftermarket company was not getting rich, but, in aggregate, the amount of revenue generated by Hi-Po parts was big, and growing . . . .HD got smart, sold the parts, many of them NOT voiding the warrentee when installed at the dealer, and the rest is fairly recent history HD has been accused of a lot of things, especially when it comes to the support of the Buell brand . .. . however, no one can argue that HD's market research team is top notch, and the envy of many many companies . . . . don't doubt for a minute that if they felt the market was there to generate sufficient revenue, we'd be seeing Henry Duga model belly pans, Erik model piston/cylinder kits, and Court Canfield autographed model exhaust systems . . . . . also, one last major difference is that stock HD engines are fairly lightly stressed . . . . there's not nearly as much performance left in a Buell engine, and each increase gets you closer to the grenade mode of operation . . . Buell/HD is, and reasonably so, very concerned about reliability at this stage of the company's growth and I love learning too! | ||
| M1combat |
They may be working on it too... I hear they work fairly closely with Tilley's and Hal's... | ||
| Henrik |
Aside from the math - if you look at the (severely lacking) quality of the HD Chirpin' Chicken Putformance parts, you'd realize you're *much* better off dealing with a quality aftermarket shop. I'm talking cylinders out of round and such - not good. Henrik | ||
| Hootowl |
Besides...Buells come with hop-up parts already installed. You have to spend thousands to get 10 HP out of these things. Putting go-fast parts on a sportster that makes 50HP will net you a big increase. Putting the same parts on a Buell will likely DECREASE your performance. .02 | ||
| Dyna |
Why does Buell not make See the cheapskate thread for the answer  | ||
| Spike |
All I want is some type of programmable fuel control similar to Harley's Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner. That thing is amazing. Much better than the sorry "Race" ECM. Mike L. | ||
| Bykergeek |
See the cheapskate thread for the answer Ouch that hurts. It is true but it still hurts... edited by bykergeek on May 06, 2004 | ||
| Reepicheep |
A 500cc single air cooled adventure tourer / dual sport would be VERY cool. | ||
| Mikej |
So would a Trials bike, but we'll never see it from the MoCo. I think I'll go see if any Ossa's are on traderonline.... | ||
| Bigbird |
Aside from the math - if you look at the (severely lacking) quality of the HD Chirpin' Chicken Putformance parts, you'd realize you're *much* better off dealing with a quality aftermarket shop. I'm talking cylinders out of round and such - not good. Can you point to any widespread examples of this? We sell tons of this stuff where I work and we don't have warranty issues. I do agree that higher quality parts can be purchased, but that doesn't mean the S.E. parts are low quality. In fact, if you compare the range and scope of aftermarket/performance parts available for Harley engines I think you'll find there are many, many companies out there producing parts of significantly worse quality. Screamin' Eagle parts aren't necessarily intended to be the best or the highest quality. They also aren't the most expensive. They offer reasonable quality at a price point that most consider to be adequate bang for the buck. Where is the crime or shame in that? | ||
| Southernmarine |
Hey I don't have an XB, wish I did, but I was checking out some sites and thought some of you might be interested in this.  Found it at matrixbikes.com, they list it as a SB9R part. Sorry, don't mean to sound like I'm advertising for anyone, just thought ya'll might be interested. Any Badweb Sponsors carry anything like this? Maybe ya'll could look into it. edited by Southernmarine on May 07, 2004 | ||
| Jasonblue |
Trojan used to have a cheez grater eliminator kit that had the double tail lights like that, but it is no longer on their website. Does anyone know which one I'm talkin about and where I might find one? | ||
| Henrik |
Gregg; I have been present twice at a very reliable aftermarket dyno shop, when Twin Cam Big twins with SE big bore kits were dynoed. Owners had concerns about the amount of power these bikes and wanted to figure out what was going on. Both bikes, even after tuning, dynoed in the mid 70's - quite a bit shy of where they should be. For comparison my mostly stock '92 Evo Lowrider dynoed 72 HP at the rear wheel with just a stock carb rejet, Bologna cut Cycle Shack pipes and a set of mild cams (don't remember which). Both bikes had out-of-round cylinders - obviously compromising compression After re-boring the cylinders to straighten up the bore, both bikes dynoed what you'd expect from the available displacement and the parts installed. According to the shop (and I trust the guys there, they know their stuff) this was not at all uncommon. They would usually bore up smaller cylinders to the desired big bore to avoid that issue. I'm not saying that *all* SE equipment is garbage - although re-reading my previous post is certainly sounds that way, and I apologize for that.  But if out-of -round cylinders occurs frequently enough that one shop sees several of them within a short period of time, and if the performance results of a full SE big bore kit are poor enough that the average owner notices, then there are definitely issues with the quality of the parts. You're absolutely correct that there are worse aftermarket parts out there, but there are also better parts available. A brief look around Badweb alone will get you a bunch. And when you for prices comparable to SE can get a quality kit that performs as expected - I'd say buyer beware. And I guess I see a responsibility issue there as well; HD is well positioned to provide hop-up parts to HD owners - especially new owners, and have further improved their position by providing warranty for dealer installed SE parts. As such, IMHO, HD/SE has a responsibility to provide better than, say out-of-round cylinders.  Henrik | ||
| 99buellx1 |
We have the Ermax undertail. I have 3 in blue 1 in black. Craig Buell Cycle Center | ||
| Jasonblue |
99, What comes with that and will it work on the 9s? | ||
| 99buellx1 |
It is a complete undertail for the Firebolt models. (9 or 12) Includes the LED tail lights and turn signals. List 349.95 BWB price 314.96 Craig Buell Cycle Center | ||
| Daves |
Craig, Did you get my email? Dave daves@h-dappleton.com | ||
| 99buellx1 |
yep | ||
| Johnnyxb9 |
Jasonblue I think it was make by HSA , apparently they had a quality problem. Back to the tread topic. I attended a H-D/Buell "town hall" meeting in NJ on Thurs and I asked that exact question. The head of H-D CVO vehicles and Screamin Eagle's reply was "the Buell is already on its higher end of performance capability" so I asked about Big-bore kits/ Full exhaust/ Race tuner. They dont think there is enough of a market to sell. What about all of us!!!! Not to be totally "Pro factory" but I would prefer H-D's R+D team to do my testing than spend a fortune and destroy MY bike. | ||
| Southernmarine |
99buellx1, I may have to contact you about one for my new 12R I'll be getting. Gonna pick it up, hopefully, within a week from now. I'm looking at getting the red one. Could make a last minute change of mind though, but either way, I might be putting that ermax undertail peice on in the future. edited by Southernmarine on May 07, 2004 | ||
| Glitch |
Congrats Southern! Ya gonna keep the Blast for runnin' around, and give it to your children when the times right? | ||
| Southernmarine |
Wish I could convince my wife of that Glitch, but I must get rid of it. | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
No No Southern, We can't have the same mods! I'm supposed to order that undertail... LOL, Charlieboy | ||
| Bigbird |
But if out-of -round cylinders occurs frequently enough that one shop sees several of them within a short period of time, and if the performance results of a full SE big bore kit are poor enough that the average owner notices, then there are definitely issues with the quality of the parts. I don't doubt your word, or the word of the shop you know and trust. But once again I have to question the situation. Couldn't it be possible that there was a bad run of cylinders, I.E. some idiot at the factory smoked too much pot the night before and didn't have his machinery set up properly the next day? I don't know how automated the process is (or isn't) for boring S.E. cylinders as they are made, but I haven't experienced the conditions your local shop describes. We have installed LOTS of big bore kits with great results. Combined with the right pistons, cams, headwork (or replacement heads) we've turned out some real monsters and haven't had a single low-compression issue to date. Of course now that I've posted that there will probably be about a hundred blown up bikes waiting for me Monday morning  IMO there are components sold under the Screamin' Eagle name that provide great bang for the buck, and there are certain components the aftermarket offers that are better. It all depends on what you are looking for. The best answer is to do your research, but my point was that Screamin' Eagle's quality overall isn't bad. BTW I have experimented with aftermarket stuff too. My last evo ('98 Wide Glide) dyno'd 80 rwhp with a crane 316-2b cam, edelbrock carb (lousy part throttle performance but made good power wide open), Cycle Shack pipes, and a S.E. ignition box. However nowadays 80 hp won't win many drag races. In the twin cam world we've turned out nice triple-digit horsepower using S.E. big bore, performance heads, ignition, pushrods, and race tuner kit along with S&S gear drive 585 cams, Fueling oil pump and a few other goodies. I'm not against aftermarket stuff at all. I just think it's important to do the research and figure out what is good or bad. In our experience S.E. engine parts have been of good quality, even if they sometimes don't produce the most power. They still tend to produce RELIABLE power with decent longevity, which is something else our customers seem to want. | ||
| Henrik |
Couldn't it be possible that there was a bad run of cylinders ... Gregg, you absolutely correct - there could be many different reasons for what the shop experienced. I have no way of knowing which or the extent. Out of curiosity; do you always test/tune bikes after you install those performance kits? Your mention of factory conditions that could have contributed reminds me of an article by Kevin Cameron (I really enjoy his writings) about one of the British bike manufacturers - I think it was Triumph. I can't remember all the details, but here goes: Back in the day Triumph had moved the factory to a new location and was subsequently having all sorts of trouble with crank case bearings not lining up, not staying in place etc. etc. Everything was tried to no avail, until finally as a last resort they brought in one of the old-timers who'd refused to make the move with the factory. They asked him to bore a set of cases - he looked around and asked: "where's me stick"? He was looking for an old piece of lumber from the old factory and someone was sent to retrieve said "stick." When the old-timer got his stick - a scarred, oil stained piece of lumber - he jammed it in between the boring machine upright and the bit, put his full weight on it and bored the first set of perfectly straight cases since the move. Turns out, that the machinery had been wearing out over time, and the excess slack made it impossible to bore anything straight - unless you had a stick and used it to take all the slack out. And what does all that have to do with our discussion? casting/machine wear could be a reason for the lacking result that was seen. I agree that research is important before charging into performance modifications - as is, I guess, a long term plan ,so that the $$ you spend and the parts you purchase will work with your final goal. And finally - Point Taken Henrik | ||
| Bigbird |
Out of curiosity; do you always test/tune bikes after you install those performance kits? No we don't, because we don't yet have a dyno. Quite frankly the business has grown so much we're simply out of room. But we're hoping to expand next year, and perhaps I can negotiate a dyno into the budget  However we do work with another organization that has a dyno, and we recommend to our customers that they have the necessary dyno-tuning done when we give them back their bike. Almost all of them go ahead and have the tuning done, and we keep track of the results for future reference. Interesting story about the case boring situation. There is no replacement for old-school ingenuity. | ||
| Henrik |
An in-house dyno would be very cool - and providing you "sell" the concept well, it would probably generate some good income as well. Good on you that you send your customers over for tuning, and pretty cool to keep track of how they do as well. Other shops could learn from that Henrik |
