| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
 http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/ebr-motorcycle s-to-debut-black-lightning-model-nov-18-in-long-be ach-california/ It seems to be an all-black SX with lowered suspension, lower gearing, lower foot pegs, and higher handlebars. | ||
| Dannybuell |
dayum | ||
| Froggy |
Looking good, sounds like they have been listening to feedback. Now to put the lower gearing and comfort seat on my blue bike  | ||
| Twirlin |
definitely interested in picking up the mid-fairing and heat shield for my SX. It's a big pet peeve of mine that they weren't offered in black from the get-go. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Lots of photos posted here: http://www.superstreetbike.com/2017-ebr-1190-black -lightning-exclusive-shoot | ||
| Hootowl |
"Fuel Capacity 4.5 gal (17.lL)"  ...while showing a picture of the airbox. | ||
| Ron_luning |
Any idea if the lowered foot pegs are these http://www.knightdesignllc.com/Products/Motorcycle /Buell/1125R-1125CR/Buell-1125R-1125CR-1-Front-Foo t-Pegs.html They look almost identical. Anyone tried lowered pegs made for the 1125 bikes on an EBR? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ron- somebody asked that question on Facebook shortly after the Black Lightning was introduced. IIRC, Erik or Dan Hurda responded that those pegs will work, but they require minor modifications to fit the EBR bikes. | ||
| Bluex |
I use Uly stock pegs on CR and SX without any mods. | ||
| Crusty |
When I put Uly footpegs on my Ex-wife's Ss, I had to use thick washers as shims to take out the slop. So long as the mounting pin is the same diameter for both pegs, you can either file down mounting bosses to make them fit if they're too thick, or you can shim them if they're too narrow. Or you can just buy the right size footpegs from EBR and save some work. I think that about covers it. | ||
| Fujkami78 |
The key for me, having ridden my brother's Ducati 1100 a lot, is will the bike ride around town? The DUC does not like around town speeds and a 90 degree 25 mph corner is painful in that the engine chugs so much I need the clutch. I am either in too high a gear or too low. This used to happen on my Buell Cyclone too. Interestingly enough, people say the KTM Duke 1290 is a peach at any rpm as far as fualing goes. | ||
| Froggy |
Much better than a regular SX for sure. One of the changes for the Black Lightning is a bigger rear sprocket. The stock 41 tooth sprocket makes the gearing pretty tall, and requires a lot of clutch slipping around town, indeed making it a chore. I've ridden a SX with a 44 tooth sprocket (same as the SX-BL) and it made a world of difference. That bike felt no different than my 1125s around town, which while not perfect but was very reasonable. I can't speak for the 90 degree turn situation yet, but simply dealing with multiple stop signs and lights in a small area was enough to convince me. The sprocket is being installed on my SX as we speak. For what it is worth, a Race ECM does wonders on these at the lower RPMs. It is "ok" with the stock ECM but with the Race ECM it no longer is being held back by EPA regulations and runs the way it was intended. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Biggest reason the Loki platform is a popcorn machine at low rpm is engine timing... too much advance too low. (17 degrees BTDC IIRC) I have dropped the idle region(1200 - 2200rpm) to +5.5 degrees BTDC and we are pretty smooth at idle in 1st and 2nd.( 7 & 12mph ) I did that on my 1125 with the banned Ohi_S_ortbike files and a programmable ECM from IDS for my 1190RS. (Tim rocks..) Keep in mind, at no-load running, timing should be retarded compared to hi-load, when you want a bunch of advance. Doing that to my 1125 also caused the exhaust to cool and quit turning the primaries orange-red at extended idle. Z | ||
| Hughlysses |
Zack- Why would they run excess advance at low RPM? Emissions? | ||
| Court |
Curious . . what do you consider the "Loki" platform? | ||
| Terrys1980 |
I thought the 1125 was "Loki" platform? | ||
| Ourdee |
I still don't know what Loki means. | ||
| Crusty |
Watch one of the Thor movies. Loki was the Norse god of Mischief. | ||
| 1313 |
...then the stillborn Loki I designed around the initial Buell-requested, compact-and-light Porsche motor that eventually bloated into the V-Rod engine... The 1125 was not the original Loki, 1313 | ||
| Court |
Hahahahaha . . . if I am not mistaken . . . I think 1313 and I . . along with personnel from the Wisconsin State Police (uninvited) were in attendance at the "debut public appearance". The Loki has never been publicly viewed that I am aware of. I stand ready . . . . in my sunset years . . . to be corrected. I have a bling blue manual marked CONFIDENTIAL laying here that pretty well sums it up. The 1125 had nothing to do with the "Loki" in my recollection. | ||
| Ljm |
Was not the Loki a porsche-based or designed liquid cooled v-twin that was never produced? | ||
| Reepicheep |
What was the name of the turbo XB platform? That's the murdered one that really breaks my heart. That would have been such a neat bike. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
1125 is Loki II. Turbo XB was Diablo http://aerocharger.com/wp-content/uploads/82567_eprint.BAK_.pdf (Message edited by terrys1980 on January 09, 2017) | ||
| Court |
>>>What was the name of the turbo XB platform? I saved all the photos of the very early "R" bike. . . . much to the chagrin of a few folks. When I took all the photos it was sitting next to a Griffin that resulted in perhaps the funniest . . . no, the "real estate" story was the funniest . . . story of the "HD shits on Buell" act. They sent a kid looking for it . . . to make certain we weren't cavorting off with any "bikes that rightfully belonged top Harley". We proved, beyond doubt, that the bikes had been destroyed and removed. (not to worry, they are all safe) but the kid was looking for the Griffin . . .saw all the Honda stickers and said "that can't be it, it's a Honda". The BUELL, cast in the case, apparently didn't concern him. :-) A couple years from now . . . we can tell the real estate story. | ||
| Dannybuell |
LOL | ||
| Zac4mac |
WOW, thanks for the clarification, Court and Brankin. Didn't know the 1125 was Loki II. Not even dressed yet and learned something new today! Z | ||
| Ourdee |
The first product for the new company—which cannot be called “Buell” because Harley retains ownership of that name—will almost certainly be a liquid-cooled V-Twin using a derivative of the Rotax engine that powered the 1125R. This will be the sixth generation of Erik’s liquid-cooled V-Twin, beginning with his VR design of 1988, then the stillborn Loki I designed around the initial Buell-requested, compact-and-light Porsche motor that eventually bloated into the V-Rod engine, followed by the 1125R, the 1125RR Superbike and finally, the 1190RR. The intent with the new bike is to take all the lessons learned along the way and make an American sportbike that is also a world-class Superbike. By Steve Anderson From the article 1313 pointed to. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I thought I'd throw this out there as a close-out of the history of the Black Lightning. Info from the auction at EBR revealed there are at least TWO Black Lightnings in existence. A BL was sold at auction that had a 2015 build date. Internet buyer paid $10k plus fees. It appears to have been built from an Erik Buell Racing 1190SX and was the prototype bike. Here are a few pics lifted from Facebook:    Apparently the bike shown at the IMS shows was not this bike. This bike appears to have been built by EBR Motorcycles (post-receivership); this bike was apparently the first production Black Lightning. Froggy posted that he had pics of the BL shown at the NYC IMS and it had a 2016 build date and a different VIN. This bike is apparently not at the auction. Here's a pic from an earlier Badweb thread on the bike:  | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Anyone here end up with the lap black lightning. I was watching and it took every ounce of restraint for me not to hit the bid button. Wonder what that will be worth in 10 years. | ||
| Court |
>>>Wonder what that will be worth in 10 years. What do you think it will be worth in 10 years? To me, it would have to be worth more than $20,610 in 10 years with the following assumptions:
So, the more concrete question becomes . . "do you think it will be worth $21,000 in 10 years? If so, it would warrant moving investment dollars toward. If not, it would be a drain on your portfolio. I bought a new 1990 Buell RS1200 Westwind for about $17,000 and sold it 6 years later. Using the same set of assumptions, I'd have to sell it for $119,806 today. I loved that Buell, and every other Buell I purchased, dearly and haven't a regret in the world. But, as I have said many times in the past . . . . motorcycles are a lot of fun. They are downright poor investments. If you are going to buy a motorcycle . . . . ride it. P.S. - There are a couple notable exceptions, since as the S1 Lightning that Mike R owns. P.P.S. - Don't misread this as some sort of lofty dictate about the wisdom of buying things for fun. Lord knows I've had more than my share of "passion bought" bikes and I'm sitting here looking at several dozen guitars, most of which I never intended to buy. I've also bought 2 silly new cars the last month and actively have a broker looking for a vintage 1959. But . . . I keep my investments and my fun well clear of each other. | ||
| Shoggin |
You must be a hoot at dinner parties.  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Dude keeps it real. While I havent always agreed with Court on some things, hes a brutally honest man, and I respect the heck out of that. Plus, when I did have the opportunity to meet him at HC2010 he was exceptionally nice. And his book is great. | ||
| Damnut |
P.S. - There are a couple notable exceptions, since as the S1 Lightning that Mike R owns. The photographer Mike R, from L.I.? If so I own that bike now. | ||
| Court |
You've got the red one or the silver one? | ||
| Damnut |
Silver. | ||
| Crusty |
Hi Ho! | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Crusty- I sent you a PM as soon as I saw it was on the auction listing. Were you the lucky internet bidder? | ||
| Qurtrn10 |
Not only was there the prototype Black Lightning (built using an existing 2015 SX) and the production Black Lightning (VIN #001 with "C" in the model of the VIN), but there were also parts laid out to build another. I bought those parts from EBR and might assemble into a third BL later this year. Since it wouldn't be an official BL, I haven't decided whether I want to duplicate the original decals or modify them somewhat.   | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Was that from the EBR sale? | ||
| Qurtrn10 |
It was. While everyone else was in the main liquidation sale room, I was wandering around looking at the auction items. I remembered the auction catalog saying that the carts were up for auction but did not include the parts on them, so I asked for a price and made a deal for them. | ||
| Twirlin |
anyone know the part number for the Knight Designs foot pegs used on the Black Lightning? I'm looking for them on my SX and can't determine if they were in the "XB12" or "1125" category of their website. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
EBR tech confirmed that most of the parts on the show bike was one of and they never got production quantities for any of the parts. | ||
| Twirlin |
I got confirmation from Robin Knight @ Knight Designs that they have the footpegs from the Black Lightning. They are not listed on their website, but you can ask for them by phone/email, FYI. |
