| Author | Message | ||
     Midknyte |
His comment did not indicate whether it it had anything to do with EBR, and could have just as easily been about Cleveland, which was to have a new distribution network up by now and nothing but crickets there too... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"His comment did not indicate whether it it had anything to do with EBR, and could have just as easily been about Cleveland, which was to have a new distribution network up by now and nothing but crickets there too..." Does LAP own Cleveland? Cause he posted that he was under NDA with LAP nd posted it when things first went down this time.  | ||
| Midknyte |
>Does LAP own Cleveland? Nope. I took his comment there as just generally cryptic and tried not to read anything much into after the previous fiasco. This was around the time that very few knew that he'd hooked up with Cleveland and I figured he could just as well been reveling in that. Also figured he had his hands full financially in that and would not be able to make a swing for EBR this time, but maybe he got it for a song and is sitting on it. Might be a boon to EBR in that Cleveland already has experience in the dealer-less sales approach that some have pitched. | ||
| Stevel |
The general consensus of this thread appears to be that parts availability for both the 1125 and the 1190 are waning and soon will be either non-existent or very expensive if found. We can witness this by observing escalating prices on eBay as well as other auction sites. This leaves us, the preservers of the Buell legacy, with the responsibility to either design and manufacture replacements or modify existing parts from other brands. I think we will all have to do our part. In that light, I would like to point out that piston availability for these motors is also in the same category. When Erik introduced the RS, he used the aftermarket for many of his components and he chose CP pistons in the 106mm size. There are several companies that could make spare pistons, but most require large volumes. CP, sme other American companies, are willing to make pistons in low volumes, but there are all made from solid billet. There are NO forgings available in the double bridge style available in the US. Billet pistons are inferior to correctly sized forgings because they have less strength at the same weight and they must also use more piston to wall clearance as their thermal coefficient of expansion (COE)is greater. Ideally, AL4032 is the preferred alloy for street pistons because this eutectic alloy has a lower COE and can be run tighter in the engine. However, when piston temperature approaches or exceeds 300 degrees C, the strength of 4032 starts to rapidly fall off. Well 4032 pistons for these engines are simply not available anywhere. For racing and heavy duty pistons, 2618 is the preferred alloy because of superior strength at temperature. This is the alloy CP uses, but they are billet. I have spent the money to have pistons designed to my specs by Pistal in Italy. Fortunately Pistal did have forging blanks in the correct double bridge style in the correct bore size to be compatible to the Buell 1125 and 1190 bore sizes. Because the design now exists, these excellent pistons and pins are now available from Pistal at reasonable costs and they will deliver them in oversize diameters to facilitate reboring. These pistons are significantly lighter than OEM and the crank should be rebalanced when using them. Marine Crankshaft in California will do this at reasonable cost and they are the ONLY company that I found that will. My specs included a more efficient deck design to enhance flame propagation, flared and radiused valve pockets, hard anodized ring lands to prevent micro welding, as well as friction coated skirts. This double bridge forging also offers less mass at the pin boss, they can be run tighter in the bore than most 2618 pistons. These run very happily at .08mm clearance. | ||
| M1combat |
Thank you Steve  | ||
| Snacktoast |
These pistons are significantly lighter than OEM and the crank should be rebalanced when using them. Marine Crankshaft in California will do this at reasonable cost and they are the ONLY company that I found that will. Marine Crankshaft has sufficient experience with crankshaft modifications for these engines. Their work is OEM quality, you could say.  | ||
| Stevel |
We have another problem in the crank area that I have been unable to resolve. That issue is that of replacement bearing shells. First neither HD nor EBR has ever offered oversize bearings to facilitate regrinding the crank journals undersize. Replacement shells are only offered in standard size. I have been in conversation with many bearing manufacturers and none offer bearings in the 1125/1190 sizes. I have been unable to determine the OEM bearing shell source. So, if anyone knows the answer, please post it here. | ||
| Johndd |
Just saw a news article about VW possibly selling Ducati Motorcycle Company. Over a billion dollar price tag.... EBR looks like a bargain in comparison. | ||
| Johndd |
Link to story on Ducati: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN17S23J | ||
| Midknyte |
>VW eyes possible sale of motorbike brand Ducati Not unexpected in light of their financial burden at present. But what the hell is it with shedding healthy branches to "pay attention" to the core business, when ostensibly they could just them be... never mind... bottom line, short sighted, investor base... answering my own question. >The motorbike maker may appeal to peers in China, India's Hero (HROM.NS) or investors such as... Hero? Yeah, let us know how that goes... >It remained unclear whether large competitors such as Polaris (PII.N), Harley Davidson... Hey, how about a little insult to pile on our injury... I can't imagine the sour apples here if HD were to buy them | ||
| Airbozo |
Funny, I just applied for a job at Ducati in Cupertino California. Technical Manager Company Name Ducati North America Company Location Cupertino, California Link here (not sure if it will work since it is LinkedIn and might not be public): https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/263649771/ Probably will not get selected for an interview since I am lacking some of the Ducati experience, but I have everything else. Couldn't hurt. Wonder what they would say if I do get selected to interview and show up on my Buell? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"EBR looks like a bargain in comparison." Depends how you look at it. Ducati is a company with history, heritage. They sell a lot of bikes each year. EBR was around for how long? Bell was around for, what, 28 years? People will buy a Duc cause of the name of the tank. People steer clear of EBR because of the name on the tank. I love my bikes, but the company has quite the rocky history (at least since 08) | ||
| Henshao |
Correction, people steer clear of EBR because they STILL don't know what it is Quite possibly the best product with the worst marketing campaign in all of history man.... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Oh its a great product, but why would people want to buy a bike with such a sketchy past? | ||
| Midknyte |
The past has only proven them to be a persistent underdog. It's their future that is always an unknown... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
yeah. ok. I love my Buells, and wish I owned an EBR But I wouldnt expect much of a future at this point. No one is lining up to buy this | ||
| Henshao |
I'm just saying I would have liked to have seen at least one TV commercial with the words "American" and "185hp" People had to know about something before they could line up for it | ||
| Buelliedan |
This really seems to be the end of Buell.  | ||
| Court |
Unless it was followed by $9,995.00 .... it'd be a tough row to hoe. It's the times. | ||
| Needs_o2 |
No news is good news?  | ||
| Henshao |
You know what Court, I disagree. For however much i respect your knowledge on the subject, other corporations are getting people to buy overpriced horseshit in DROVES. I talk to sportbike riders all the time even today who have never even heard of EBR. As the only American superbike manufacturer EBR was poised to make a killing if they could have found their mark on the marketing side of things. Every time I see a guy wearing BDUs on an R1 I think, "that should have been an EBR" | ||
| Court |
>>>if they could have found their mark on the marketing side of things. Could, shoulda, woulda . . . . Buell had, at it's disposal, one of America's premier marketing giants for 22 years. For a complete understanding . . . . read the book "The Outliers". It will provide a pretty fair sense of just how close Erik and the Elves came to making the breakthrough. Unlike some who have seen defeat, I think what Erik did, and frankly, is doing . . . is nothing short of phenomenal. It has been a dream come true. Would we have liked to see it skyrocket like one of the big names? I'm not sure. I go back and look at the program metrics and goals we set out to accomplish and damn near all the boxes have checkmarks in them. EBR was a test rocket shot into the ocean at best. It was, by and large, funded out of what was to be Erik's retirement . . . lacked the management muscle it needed to control and direct all those brilliant engineers and spent, looking back, an inordinate time in a Quixotic windmill quest for capital. It's not Erik's fault either. I was involved in some meetings with potential investors and I can tell you that one of Erik's lingering frustrations will be the near contempt that American investors show for American manufactures. The mere fact that they pushed out some bikes (some fun facts will emerge, with respect to this, someday) is nothing short of amazing and, as owners will attest, the bikes may be about the best product you can buy in the industry. But . . here's the rub . . and this is going to sound like a repeat of what I was saying and being blasted for while it was "new news" . . . EBR has a 100% correct answer for a question that hadn't been asked. Part of marketing is to shape our wants and desires and I think you and I are off a similar mindset here . . . . in that EBR was never able to find or create that market demand. The cost to do it would have been several times the sum total of what EBR spent the entire time they were in business . . marketing is damned expensive. This got complicated having a few flies in the ointments that essentially had Erik and Co. running in leg weights. I'm convinced that if 3 things had of changed Buell would have launched like an ICBM. But, by the time it became critical, even folks like Flick were hog (pardon the pun) tied. The EBR products never sold at the prices they needed to in order to make the business model work. The great thing, for smart buyers, is that at that $9,995 price, some seem to have sold as low as the $6,000 level, you have one of the most sophisticated motorcycles you can get. My bet is that most the folks on R1's wouldn't buy at EBR, even a $44,000 MSRP, at $9,995.00. They have been captivated by, as you said, that powerful marketing that has HP inching up year by year. Many of those folks will queer a sale if something 2HP more comes along . . . | ||
| Henshao |
So the long story short is: EBR worked their way up to affording everything except the marketing. Which is a term with a complex definition. Which was the most expensive item. And seemingly the most crucial. How frustrating. Finding the capital to generate the capital sounds like trying to pick up a chair while you're still sitting in it. | ||
| Johndd |
Not dead yet. I now count twenty dealers on the EBR site. | ||
| Court |
Problem is ..... and has been ..... go to one of their websites. Frequently there was no mention of EBR. It wasn't the fancy, expensive, high level marketing ....... rather the simple basics. My "acid test" was always simply picking up the phone and calling dealership. "I see you handle EBR". Silence "I haven't heard of them. I can check and call you back". Not the type of confidence that promotes the sale of an expensive purchase. | ||
| Johndd |
For what it's worth, here are the new dealers: Bennett Powersports 2575 S Van Dyke Road, Marlette, MI 48453 Phone: (989) 635-5500 Website: www.bennett-powersports.com Southwest Superbikes 2361 Fabens Road, Dallas, TX 75229 Phone: (972) 418-0555 Website: www.southwestsuperbikes.com Robinson Motorsports 9113 Olive Drive, Spring Valley, CA 91977 Phone: (858) 705-1238 Website: www.robinsonmotorsports.net | ||
| Smashman |
I just called Robinson Motorsports as they're nearby - 2 EBR 1190s for sale but no parts or service available. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well crap: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/ebr-motorcycle -factory-to-be-liquidated-beginning-june-7/ | ||
| Greg_e |
Too bad that crowd funding the purchase wouldn't work. I bet there are lots of things I'd like to have at the prices they will go for, those rolling lift tables would be one of them. CNC machines and tools would be another but way out of my price range. | ||
| Buelliedan |
the words coming from Bill Melvin are so disrespectful IMO. I so wish any other company or person had bought EBR! (Message edited by buelliedan on May 24, 2017) |
