| Author | Message | ||
     Robhughes |
I was copied in on this earlier today just thought I would share it with everyone here, remember these are "personal" observations, keep the flaming under control and stop acting like jackasses (you know who you are..LOL). "I had spent most of yesterday afternoon really pushing the TiForce Exhaust now that I have it tuned to about 89.5rwHP. (84.3rwHP for a stocker XB) best thus far. There is no doubt this exhaust will produce 90+ with the FI1045 Techlusion. I recommend this (Techlusion) highly over a PC-III. On the road, the bike's time to full HP/Torque comes on about 1,500 RPM earlier than any other exhaust that I have tried. At 2,500 RPM, this exhaust is already at a peak of 60 ft-lbs torque. The climb continues to redline. The 1-2nd gear shifts will not produce nearly 10 O'clock wheelies all of the time. The bike has 5,500 to redline strong pulls. Torque from 2,500 to 5,500 is nothing more than very smooth and strong. The bike is exceptionally street able, the near 98db of the exhaust is not pronounced until you are already well over 70 MPH and even then, the sound is deep and not crackle-like. It sounds like a V8 on the road. Power into and out of the corners is really another major advantage of the additional low-end torque power band. Simply tremendous. Overall cruising with the bike makes me feel many times as if I forgot to shift into 5th, as the torque and power band at cruising speeds feels as if you need to shift up again. The roll-on from 75-80 MPH to 130 MPH+ is very smooth (I know, should not have done this on the street, but it was hard to resist). Top-end reach is quicker, but it feels as if the top-end at 130-135 drops off a bit then comes on just as you reach redline approaching 140. More fuel at the upper-end should take care of this issue for certain. The trip from 0-100 is absolutely unreal! There is a major improvement in throttle response. There is no doubt that I would recommend this exhaust and can tell you that the performance is exceptional in all respects. It is exceptional in fit, finish and the craftsmanship is perfect. Performance with proper tune time and dial-in proves this exhaust is making the right power at the right time. There is a major improvement at the mid-range over that of the Buell Race Exhaust, Latus and Drummer Exhaust. Mounting is near perfection, and the front mount is no longer a concern of mine after 550 miles on the XB since the installation of the TiForce System. The rear mounting is simply beautiful and exceptionally strong. Make no concerns that this exhaust will not handle major abuse from riding styles (however not recommended). There are no "jacking points" on the can. DO not attempt to jack from the bottom of the TiForce Can. (I never recommend jacking from the exhaust in any case, regardless of the exhaust, as mounting points of most exhausts are not robust enough to handle the weight transfer). You asked my professional opinion in both track time, testing and personal use, and I am going to need to recommend the TiForce over any other that I have used thus far. Now, the hard part is for you to make up your mind as I have to remain with the TiForce on my personal shop bike. There will be many favorable dyno runs coming to substantiate these claims from both DKF Performance in California and also I believe that Orient Express will also be doing their own dyno runs on actual demonstration and/or customer XB's. All our tests will be on the XB9's as this is our specialty vs. the XB12 and we feel there is more track potential of the XB9's over the XB12's. Answering your last question about your future possible move to upgrade your XB9 to a 1050cc, I have no doubts that TiForce will still be the exhaust to use. Additional dyno/tune time will be required to "dial-in", but it will prove to still be a wise investment over any other exhaust system hands down. As you are aware, I have tested the TiForce on the 1050cc as well, so my impressions remain solid. I have copied this response to the gentlemen at Orient Express also in the quest to assure you that Orient Express stands solid behind this product as they do all of their products. My experience with this TiForce for the XB is hands down the finest of any products ever produced for the XB. Warmest regards, Corey B. James | ||
| Robhughes |
Here's another "personal account" from the DKF website. }Unscientific first hand account of my experience with a TiForce Pipe I received my TiForce pipe on Thursday afternoon 4/29/04. The pipe came boxed and wrapped in bubble wrap and arrived in perfect condition. Wed evening I had removed the original exhaust and was ready to install the new one. Changing the exhaust on an XB9R is a challenge, (be prepared for it and when things get frustrating stop and have a soda, adult beverage, smoke, or whatever you're into). It took me about 3 hours to get the new pipe on. I think I could do it in 2, now that I've done one but you should probably allow 5 or 6 hours for the complete job. Friday I came home and finished the rest of my 1000 mile check and went for a ride. I ran the bike at about 3800 r's for awhile so the computer could learn the requirements. I don't know for sure if this is necessary, but I've heard it is, so I did. This pipe makes a huge difference in the way the bike runs. The bike pulls almost instantly and strong all the way to red line. I'm a drag racer and I've ran the XB at my local drag strip a number of times so I'm pretty familiar with how it behaves. I went out to my favorite stretch of road and did a wannabe drag race. The bike always did a small second gear wheelie at a full on redline 1st-2nd shift, as long as you were ready it was never an issue. This time, the bike stood up big time! I was leaning all over the front end and it still came up to the balance point with no effort at all. Yeeehaaaa. It got R's a lot faster than before and the shift into third was front wheel up as well. I ran it out to the redline in 3rd then slowed down. I'm going to the drags on Wed night 5/5/04, my times should reflect the change. The best run I've had on the XB so far was 12.61 105 mph. I'm thinking it may be good for 2 tenth's! My bike is completely stock with only 1000 miles on it. Also I have a planed dyno run on Monday 5/3/04. We should have some dyno pulls posted by the end of next week. We have people doing different combinations with this pipe on different bikes in different parts of the country so it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. My little test is completely unscientific and my butt dyno is probably different than your butt dyno, but mine likes this pipe. I'll check the plugs after 100 miles or so and report back. The fit and finish on this pipe is first class all the way! The slip joints work well, the welds are amazing, everything about this pipe is first class! And it sounds really cool too. Not to loud just about right. Even my neighbor (who is clueless) thought it looked and sounded good. Is it worth $1300.00? If you like first class stuff that works, if you appreciate fine craftsmanship, this is the pipe for you. Disclaimer The forgoing is simply my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It is not meant to offend or defend. It is only one opinion of a particular product. | ||
| Uncbuell |
hmm. i'm not convinced it's worth $1300 and all the mods/tuning/etc. there are easier and better ways to enhance the xb exhaust out there. edited by uncbuell on May 03, 2004 | ||
| M1combat |
Not to deride the product but I think I can get a Drummer, Race ECM, The new Techlusion, some dyno time and a set of tires for that price. The Ti-Force looks quite nice and the weight savings are a must for some though. As a matter of fact... If I do move to the Ti-Force after a Nallin rebuild mass is the reason I'll do it. | ||
| Robhughes |
Sure this exhaust isn't for everyone, it's super expensive (at least in Buell exhaust offering terms but not so much when compared to quality exhausts for other sport bikes). $1300 really isn't all that out of this world considering what an Akrapovic or Termengoni system runs for a V-twin and I'd put the quality of the TiForce at as good or better than either of those two. It's funny how "buellers" consider properly tuning a bike "too much effort". If an exhaust system is designed correctly it will allow the the engine to move considerably more air because after adding the pipe it will be considerably more efficient. Inherently, it will need more fuel to match the increased volume of air the motor can pump through it. If you throw a slip on on your bike and the fuel doesn't need to be adjusted/tuned, are you really making your bike all that much more efficient? How many "other" sportbikes can install a properly designed, power producing pipe and not add a Powercommander or a Techlusion or a modified ECU? If the pipe is flowing that much better than stock it NEEDS the ability to tune/adjust the fuel curve. We wouldn't think of installing ANY full system (that wasn't junk) on ANY sportbike with out adding a PC3 and a map to match that bike and it's mods. How many of you would forgo jetting if that's all a good exhaust system on your bike needed if it were carb'd? So is the resistance to properly tuning; a money thing, an effort thing or have you just been misinformed for so long that you think it's not required because most "systems" up to this point have not needed it. This post in no means is ment to flame anyone, I'm just trying to understand where you guys are coming from and show you where the rest of the 2 wheeled performance market is today. | ||
| M1combat |
You will notice that I included a techlusion and dyno time in my post. I'm sure that after an engine rebuild this pipe will be more viable. The way I see it is that right now I can get X amount of power from one slipon with tuning and maybe two more with the Ti-Force w/ proper tuning (just going on a few under educated guesses as I've not seen dyno's of bikes properly tuned with any pipe let alone this one). Just judging by what I see from these pipes/systems placed on stock bikes. Show me a properly tuned Ti-Force, Drummer and D&D dyno comparison and if the difference seems worth it I'll buy the Ti-Force. For me... The Ti-Force cost THREE entire WEEKS of my working life after taxes. I will NOT buy something that expensive unless I have a VERY good idea of what it will do. I don't care what anyone SAYS about the system. Once I see charts from a Ti-Force tuned and tested by a trusted source I'll add it to my wishlist. For the record Brian... I'd like to see a Dyno of a properly tuned Drummer as well. I think for the most part people are waiting on a good techlusion/PCIV/whatever fuel injection device that works well on the 12's. In any case... That's a lot of money. Also, I have a 12 and want the X pipe. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
M1's comment about the proper FI tuner is the biggie Rob, from those people that have shown a proven track record of tuning ability its seems the PCIII and the "old" techlusion box (new one for XB is on the way/here) has been hit or miss. I myself am one of those people that don't "just add a pipe". Its why I still don't have one. When I am ready to redo the heads to really take advantage of a good aftermarket pipe then I will set down and get one. I figure it into the budget at the same time. With Big Boreing being affordable in the case of the XB compared to say an IL4 in my budgeting I am looking at doing all 3 at once. To me I can't justify paying $1300 for the pipe, then add the FI tuner and dyno time, then turn around and pay for dyno time all over again in 3-6 months time when I get the rest of the mods. However, I can see paying $1300 for the pipe and have it sit, while I get the cash together for all the other mods, then send it as a whole kit and kaboodle to the shop at once. Though I can see also putting it on in the hopes of "speeding the need" to rebuild the top end if you know what I mean?  The biggest thing it is going to boil down to when it comes time for me to buy the pipe and upgrades is not just how well it all flows but the weight of the pipe as well. If the claimed weight is as low as you say, that is a heafty savings and something to really concider. | ||
| Opto |
It's funny how "buellers" consider properly tuning a bike "too much effort." Rob, the Buells can't be tuned, you run either a stock ecm or race ecm, both are capable of learning fuel map adjustments, as the person into drag racing quoted in your 2nd post found out - he tuned it by "I ran the bike at about 3800 r's for awhile so the computer could learn the requirements." How many "other" sportbikes can install a properly designed, power producing pipe and not add a Powercommander or a Techlusion or a modified ECU? Probably none, but an XB12 with stock ecm can. So is the resistance to properly tuning; a money thing, an effort thing or have you just been misinformed... None of the above, we know what works and what doesn't. We are screaming for an ecm that we can plug into a laptop and fine-tune the ignition and fuel maps, but we don't have that, so we do the best with what we have. A handful of people have had success with add-on electronics boxes (depending on ecm type) but they don't appear to be doing anything for the XB12. I'm just trying to understand where you guys are coming from and show you where the rest of the 2 wheeled performance market is today. If I wanted to pull 160mph I wouldn't own a Buell, but I do get off on getting up and down mountains and around tight corners faster than the "other" bikes whether they like it or not. I did look at "the rest of the 2 wheeled performance market" and could have had any bike I wanted, but it didn't do much for me. Rob, this is just one BWBer's opinion, take it as such. | ||
| Dyna |
I am having a hard tome understanding the validity of anything Corey says. Never offers any proof other than what he types. One 1 hand he says the system sucks & dont use it..even you questioned his integrity based on that. Then he spouts off about how great it is. Comes down to 1 thing. Until there are independant dyno tests made available that dont involve Corey, I seriously doubt anyone is going to take the opinions on the pipe to heart. Show us the money. | ||
| Brucelee |
$1300 for an exhaust can? I don't think so! | ||
| Darthane |
Ditto Dyna. Rob, if I were you, I wouldn't ever post anything from Corey here. We've all had way too much of his BS to believe a word he says until proven irrevocably by someone we trust. Which, given his attitudes concerning allowing us to test his products, will be never. I've probably got nearly the amount of this system wrapped up into goodies for my TWO Buells now, but that got me two intakes, three mufflers, and an ECM - and other than a TPS reset, blessedly done in my garage, no stealerships involved beyond sales. My personal reluctance to purchase something like this has less to do with money and more with the fact that the only people I would trust to tune it properly are way the hell out west somewhere, meaning I'd be out not only the cash for the system, but shipping from and back to home, and (more importantly) the time without my bike. I'll stick with my 'sad little' Buell Race or Drummer cans. Oh, Heaven's forbid - they didn't require FI tuning, they must be horrible. | ||
| Tripper |
\quote(now that I have it tuned to about 89.5rwHP.) Confirmed with what dyno? Please send me the scanned sheet or the .drf files and I wll post them for you. | ||
| Easyflier |
If it delivers the advertised performance it will sell. Corey just doesn't have any established credibility so it will have to be proven by someone outside his circle. I have a PCIII installed on my bike, and a good dyno shop available (though they don't work for free). If I buy a TiForce and I can't get at least 89hp from it what is my recourse? Money back guarantee? I'm open to new products, we definitely need some for the XB series, but I'm not going to invest $1500 (pipe and map) for something unproven. | ||
| Dyna |
Hmmm Coreys personal bike is supposedly at 89hp, yet he brags about being able to get 130hp outta them. Wonder why that is? | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35573&item=790 1058998&rd=1 Looks like the guys selling the stack are now selling the TiForce exhaust. They claim that the Techlusion is not necessary for peak performance. They also had their stacks up for sale but there were no bidders this time around. Am I being too critical on this stuff? I mean, I'm never gonna be able to afford a $1300 exhaust or even a $250 velocity stack. I'm lucky enough that I got my wife to go along with the purchase of the bike in the first place! I don't doubt that the Ti exhaust will add HP to your bike if it's installed and programmed by the right people. I'm sure there are those out there that want to have all the toys and possible HP devices added to their bikes, but I don't understand it. If you needed all that extra HP and performance why not buy a Gixxer right out the box? Throw a Yoshi slip on and your done! | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
I confess that I'll probably end up with a drummer or Jardine or something to make more noise...guess I can't leave it alone either!  | ||
| Dyna |
Hmm, as was pointed out above it seems like Corey cant even keep his own lies straight. He says this in his ebay ad Max. HP/Torque is 89.4rwHP and approx. 77.3 ft-lbs. - A Techlusion Processor or custom mapping IS NOT required for max. performance from a stock 984cc or 1203cc Engine for the Buell XB9R/S or XB12R/S. Yet says this in the post to Rob There is no doubt this exhaust will produce 90+ with the FI1045 Techlusion. I recommend this (Techlusion) highly over a PC-III Anyone who cant see thru the deception deserves the screwing they get. | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
"I'll stick with my 'sad little' Buell Race or Drummer cans. Oh, Heaven's forbid - they didn't require FI tuning, they must be horrible." "If I wanted to pull 160mph I wouldn't own a Buell, but I do get off on getting up and down mountains and around tight corners faster than the "other" bikes whether they like it or not. I did look at "the rest of the 2 wheeled performance market" and could have had any bike I wanted, but it didn't do much for me." DITTOS! Jason | ||
| Brucelee |
I have the full Buell race kit and the 12 air box on my 9S. I am very satisfied with sound and performance and the price was right. I don't know what the deal is on this? The XB is a great bike and it will only go so fast. If you want fast, buy a used gsx1000 and kill yourself cheap! | ||
| Tripper |
The full test of the 4 Japanese 100's is on the newstand. The Kawi is able to pull 104 mph. Then you can shift into 2nd gear. I feel a need....... | ||
| Hootowl |
Regardless of whether it works, it sure looks well made. I almost WANT it to work, because I think they look just as cool as all get out. I'm looking forward to the dynos. | ||
| Xb9er |
The Force and TiForce exhaust systems look cool, a poseur kind of cool. I still think that the look of a stock XB9R/12R is already waaay up there on the coolness meter. My personal observation is that the Buell owner (myself included), unlike Harley owners or Japanese sportbike owners, is all about form following function (the XBR's, by the way, are the epitome of form following function in the corner carving department). Many of us are more likely to buy a performance product based on what it can do not how it looks. Hence the demand for independent dyno results. You can post all the testimonials you want but, by definition, they don't mean jack shiznit. I personally was leaning toward the purchase of a Drummer, but I started questioning that because I have not even come close to realizing the full fun potential of this bike. It's new tires, oil and fuel (and maybe a new helmet, a drive belt eventually, brake pads) that will get me closer to that objective. I'm thinking that's where my money would be more wisely spent. Mike. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I guess I am supposed to keep my mouth shut but........you know me. Rob...whatever you do....don't simply keep putting buellers down just because we suppossedly are inferior to the rest of the sportbike world. as to the fact that we don't do it like all the others. Thats not a big shock. second.. the buells have an open closed loop FI system that will make adjustments for pipe add ons. So sometimes yes it ain't perfect tuning but then what really is. alot of the jap bike guys are running bikes that are tuned rather bad also. I have seend the dyno's and put my rear on some and I know what I talk about. My xb9 with drummer ,ecm,filter and 12 airbox consistantly pulls 82.9 hp, "improperly tuned and all that. I am not bashing you at all. Like I have said before but no one can seem to tell my tone in my typing. Power to you and all that. But I wouldn't say buells and their riders are inferior in the sportbike world. Yes we and the bikes are different, but not inferior. In fact I can burn past many a very highly powered bikes, given a good curvy road and hell My big large rump has blown past a few on the track. so there ya go. Like I said this jackbutt is not bashing you or your product. But tuning a buell on a dyno with a pcIII that doesn't exist for the xb's and in the hands of a dyno tuner that doesn't understand the buell FI system is not always the most easily accomplished of task. | ||
| Johncr250 |
Where is Rob putting down Buell riders? The exhaust system BS is starting again, Bubba must be back. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
It's funny how "buellers" consider properly tuning a bike "too much effort". I beleive Bubba is refering to that line, John. What Rob may not realise is that the PCIII and Techlusion tuning has been hit or miss, you can either get it to work or you can't on the XB from the reports of those who have them here on the boards. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Johncr.... Until we see dynos, there is plenty of BS on this thread, but it ain't coming from Bubba. I took the original post (I think it is Robs) as a slam as well, but ignored it. The implication was "Buell guys whine about performance but won't bother to tune their bikes". Don't know if thats what he meant to say, but thats what I heard. And it is patent BS. How many inline four riders are cruising around with a $1000 exhaust upgrade, but have undone valve adjustments that are 2x past their interval? Summary of this thread... A: I have this cool looking titanium pipe for sale that makes a lot more power then everyone elses. B: Thats a cool looking pipe, can you show us the dynos? A: It is a really cool looking pipe. But it's not really titanium. Um. I have a dyno, but ther formatting of it doesn't look pretty. B: OK, post the dyno anyway. A: Yes it is a really cool looking pipe. B: Umm. We really don't care about the formatting of the dyno chart, we can read ugly ones. You said you had detailed dyno charts, please post them. A: OK. Tomorrow. B: Well, it's been a week, can we see the dyno. A: Thank you, it is a really pretty pipe. B: Um. Dyno. A: Here is a person who you don't know that says this pipe is really pretty. B: Dyno. A: How dare you impugn the integrity of the opinion of my first hand opinion! B: Dyno. A: It's just you buell guys, you just can't tune your bikes. B: Dyno A: Oh geesh, there goes Bubba with the personal attacks again. B: Dyno. It's getting kind of tedious. So far all we have is a very pretty titanium pipe, that is actually made of stainless steel, that has unsupported assertions of average aftermarket performance, and costs a huge amount of money. | ||
| Easyflier |
The claim was that this was a nice pipe developed on a stock, not even factory race ECM, XB. My assumption is that it was not designed to make power but with an aftermarket black box it has potential if they applied what they know from their inline 4 development. Again, that assumes that they actually developed those pipes for power. For $1500 I want to see real results, not testamonials from strangers. It looks and probably sounds good but that alone doesn't justify the investment IMO. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
I'd really like to see some dyno time done on this pipe, with and without extra black boxes etc... Without it I reach my own conclusions. | ||
| Court |
I can fly | ||
| M1combat |
What's the point Court? Maybe I'm taking the "I can fly" comment wrong but to me it seems that you are implying that we are being too harsh with potential badweb sponsors by posting thoughts that don't further the "cause". OR... Maybe you are indicating that the original post is as useful as "I can fly". Please enlighten me. |
