| Author | Message | ||
     Ljm |
Damn right, Court. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I agree with Airbozo, a bit confused when they say "winding down that part of the business". I think it's great they're still making parts and backing up warranties, but does it mean that's their whole plan now? How long can a company makes parts for bikes with such a limited run, and how many workers can it really take to do that? Between messages like that, and the comments that Bruce Belfer posted, there's obviously more going on than what appears to be out in the open now... and I'd still hope that "ceasing manufacturing" would mean they're just keeping the company active long enough to see if another owner can work out a deal without having to say EBR is dead again, to be later brought back to life, because ceasing manufacturing while ownership changes hangs sounds much better for a company with a shaky reputation like this. Who knows. | ||
| 86bgn |
So maybe the plan is to buy all new manufacturing equipment for production of the Black Lightning, after they auction off all the old stuff in March? | ||
| Twirlin |
^ That may be a bit of a stretch....even as much as I want to believe it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Unfortunately, "shutting down manufacturing operations" may at this point just mean laying off 5 people. The real tell will be if assembly tools show up at auction. That doesn't mean EBR is out of business, but may mean EBR is out of the bike assembly business. Which is a sad day for us and a sad day for America, but perhaps not the end. | ||
| Twirlin |
https://www.erikbuellracing.com/single-post/2017/0 1/31/EBR-Motorcycles-Announcement | ||
| Airbozo |
I agree that a current owner might be a little less frenetic about the closure message knowing they can get parts and warranty service, but like others have said; "For how long". Can't be any money in it. | ||
| Twirlin |
Straight from the Pegasus's mouth. | ||
| Court |
>>>Can't be any money in it. Interesting how two folks can see the same thing in two completely different ways. I could make a fortune in the configuration Erik is about to put the company in. But . . . hey . . . I'm a just a construction worker. | ||
| Johndd |
One way of introducing new again models would be to start redesigning parts for older existing bikes. This also would support repair shops in more areas of the country than the current dealer network covers. | ||
| Javaman21011 |
Strangest call I've ever had... So I called my local dealer who said they didn't stock them due to the unstable nature of EBR, which is fair. He said he'd call EBR and see what's up. He called me back just now and said that the person he talked to said they're still making bikes. Maybe that person hasn't gotten the memo? If not that then my best guess is that LAP wants to pull out, told Marketing/Erik/whomever that they should announce they're shutting down production, but in the meantime EBR is still making new bikes and hoping for a last-minute hail-mary financier to come save them. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The press release said "we'll be winding down production operations next [this] week", so they probably are still assembling motorcycles, at least until Friday or so. | ||
| Twirlin |
^agreed. "Winding down" isn't "ceasing production". It's gradual... | ||
| Airbozo |
">>>Can't be any money in it. Interesting how two folks can see the same thing in two completely different ways. I could make a fortune in the configuration Erik is about to put the company in. But . . . hey . . . I'm a just a construction worker." Please enlighten us how providing parts and warranty service for a minuscule (relatively) amount of bikes could make you a fortune? Trust me, I honestly would like to see that happen, but long term viability is not there unless they startup production under new owners. How many bikes did they sell (new ones that include the warranty)? How many models have parts being produced for them (I know there is some interchangeability)? Warranty work is a negative drain on the finances. Sure they collected money to cover the work based on theoretical failure analysis, so there is some back end assets. Having been in manufacturing for 30+ years, I know that spare parts _can_ be lucrative, but the install base must be there in order for that to happen. Perhaps you have insider knowledge on the position of the company you can't share, but my statement is based on what I have read. I do agree it is good news for owners. It is also good news for future owners of the company since it keeps interest and enthusiastic customers (current and potential). ...and calling yourself "just a construction worker" is like calling Erik "a motorcycle mechanic". | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe engineering services? Uh, paid in advance. And not for an Indian based company.  | ||
| Stevel |
Terry, I completely agree with your assessment. I think LAP's objective was to always unload EBR and its assets for as much as possible. They decided to continue manufacturing as the best way to accomplish their goal. At this point most of the 1190 parts have probably been consumed and in order to continue manufacturing, additional volume purchases for more parts and supplies are now required. I suspect LAP does not want to make that investment, hence their decision to stop making new machines. LAP still needs to dispose of the rest of EBR. Just what they will do about that is yet to be seen, but keeping the doors open as long as possible is obviously part of the plan. In order to keep the doors open and break even selling parts and upgrades, the 1190 base is simply way too small. Look for upgrades and replacement parts for the 1125 base. It is much larger and in my mind necessary to maintain Erik's fan base, which will be essential to the assessed value of EBR. Interestingly, this subject has been much discussed in past threads going back several years. In those threads, Court's opinion was that 1125 product support had no value in EBR's continued success. From his recent comments, it now appears that perhaps his opinion has now changed? | ||
| Court |
Liquid Assets Partners is a LIQUIDATION company . . . not an Angel Investor or Private Equity firm. Guess what LIQUIDATION companies do? Got it. There is a chance for them to do their work, accomplish their goals, and . . . at the same time . . .leave enough of EBR intact to support ongoing support of existing owners. I've . . .as many will recall . . . been asking all along "where are the 2016 sales?" Frankly, it's a tough time to sell sportbikes and a tougher time to build a company based on a narrow, not matter how brilliantly engineered, range of very high performance bikes. The people who admire and respect the brilliant engineering, my contemporaries, admire the bike and the genius of it but have no interest in owning one. I'd prefer, at this point, a 65HP S1 to a 185HP 1190. The folks who do want that level of performance have little or no appreciation for the engineering and unique character of the EBR . . they read only specs. Let's be honest, they read only 2 specs. . . .HP and $$. We're faced with a Gordian Knot. The apparent "Alexandrian solution" is to allow LAP to satisfy their ends, and maximize their return, by winding down the operations and disengaging (the old adage . . . "do the same thing over and expecting . . ) from the unprofitable manufacturer of motorcycles. But . . . if there is an opportunity, and I suspect their is, for EBR and The Elves, having rightfully earned a reputation for brilliant engineering across a variety of product lines . . . to market this services . . . well, a number of folks win. Erik Buell is 68 years old. The pursuit of an investor willing to put $50M at risk on a company totally dependent on the physical health and presence of a single person has proven to be a futile pursuit. But . . .if Erik and The Elves can sell their services, with the side benefit of supporting previously sold products, I see it as a huge "win-win". Buell has, from the 1980's to present, done things few are aware of in terms of providing valuable engineering services to other, often outside the world of vehicles, firms. The Buell world got a glimpse during the HERO era, but The Elves, I suspect, could find more than enough business to keep them busy. We'll see. To me . . it presents what appears to be a great "win-win" solution. Court | ||
| 86bgn |
"^ That may be a bit of a stretch....even as much as I want to believe it." Sorry, I was being sarcastic.... The whole thing with LAP has been completely misleading. Now its, we are just shutting down manufacturing, still open for business. That's until they sell off the rest of the parts and assets. There appears to have never been a "plan" to build EBR into a profitable company, well unless it happened quickly. They simply built bikes out of the remaining parts they had, and tried to make the company look more together to gain everyone's trust. Erik and all the EBR employees probably got boondoggled, and really, who in their right minds would think that they could build a company from ashes, build a dealer network, and regain enthusiast trust, in one year? That's my take on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think Erik Buell does three things really well: 1) Develop practical and innovative solutions to problems. 2) Build amazing teams of engineers. 3) Inspire those teams to achieve above what they otherwise would be capable of. I think Erik could easily build a self reproducing system that continues to do that long after he has retired. Hell, I think he already did it, and it's sprinkled across the world and already operating. I sure see it when I look at a Zero motorcycle. It's not just in one place, but it could be. I love my Buells and you will pry them out of my cold dead hands. But in terms of actually executing on manufactring, it's been hit and miss, pro and con. It was the design and engineering philosophy that pushed "normal" manufacturing processes into something special. I'd still like a new AX if it was engineered by Erik and a handpicked set of elves but manufactured by Indian, Triumph, BMW, KTM, or Ducati. Or even, God forbid, a Chinese factory who is given proper specifications and oversight. The story of being built in house in East Troy is my preferred one, but if the math can't work, then so be it. You can't say they didn't die trying... three times in fact. Life isn't perfect. | ||
| Airbozo |
I understand what LAP is. I've dealt with them before and years later still feel I need another shower... I have been optimistic about their involvement with EBR and was actually surprised they hung onto them for so long and let them operate. Not their normal MO. I do hope that someone can step in, but it might be too late. I hope not. I also agree with this: "I'd prefer, at this point, a 65HP S1 to a 185HP 1190. " I am in the same boat. I'm looking forward to the next chapter and hope we get more of the story behind the operations since HD dumped them. EBR mini-series? Might be able to fund the next operation through a reality show... lol! | ||
| Adrenaline_junkie |
I'd be happy if could buy a new S1/X1 chassis and drop in a donor Sportster motor. | ||
| Midknyte |
>The whole thing with LAP has been completely misleading. We, as an audience, [pushed to] impatience, are also very quick to try to fill gaps and make assumptions that snowball. | ||
| Rsh |
I doubt they even sold enough bikes to make payroll. A number the current staff folks looked to be high salary types, Unless they were working for free or on some type of contingency until things really picked up. Less than a year ago LAP/EBR claimed having financial stability and a 5-10 year company vision. Something completely soured that picture. | ||
| Twirlin |
^ I was thinking the same thing about that mission statement. Life happens. Things change. I'll hang tight and see what comes of this situation before making any rash judgments. | ||
| 86bgn |
So what happened between September 22, 2016, and now? Something did.... 4 months later. Spring is right around the corner, a new bike, IMS everywhere, dealer tech briefings staring Erik himself, magazines just starting to write again, new accessories, soon to be prototypes? I don't think a private company going sideways has ever bothered me so much, it doesn't make sense. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, the stock market for damn sure turned around. Maybe that figures in somehow? It's currently much easier to make money there than by building motorcycles. | ||
| 1313 |
Things definitely don't add up - that's for sure. Since any comments, until more details come to light, will be purely speculation I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself. I will, however, share this one thought with everyone: Erik Buell and the Elves ROCK! | ||
| Ducley |
"In order to keep the doors open and break even selling parts and upgrades, the 1190 base is simply way too small. Look for upgrades and replacement parts for the 1125 base. It is much larger and in my mind necessary to maintain Erik's fan base, which will be essential to the assessed value of EBR. Interestingly, this subject has been much discussed in past threads going back several years. In those threads, Court's opinion was that 1125 product support had no value in EBR's continued success. From his recent comments, it now appears that perhaps his opinion has now changed?" Do I smell a Typhon kit in the wind? | ||
| Mog |
8,395 total 1125R&CR models produced is not a huge base upon which to base a million(s) $/year company that retrofits. repairs and advances the base bike. More cagey is the idea of, once again, EBR visiting the "here are the parts, you build it" biz model. EBR already has the site and operating idea of deposit, order & receive stuff. From a stripped down lightweight XB9S to a full scream 1190RX. Cafe, dirt, ADV, flat track, road race only and uniquely custom. The parts are made by vendors, sent to E. Troy (? or wherever Erik wants to retire) and elf assistants put the kits together. Start with one XB9S for a year or two, then move up the HP/$ ladder toward the 1125 & 1190. Also, pre assembled packages would be available at a higher cost. Also,also, also a one week build your own school with a test ride area, nearby motel and pub. The cost to own could entice a whole new generation. If an airplane can be built, licensed and flown by amateurs, so can an EBR. As for age, 70 is the new 35. I should know at 72. Riding the Uly today at 60 deg F.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
LAP really needs to update their webpage:
|
