| Author | Message | ||
     Knuckleduster271 |
I found a cheap xb9 motor. Id like to pick it up for the heads and pistons and use them on my 97 s1- I searched the forum and it seems most use the xb12 heads or 04 + 1200 sportster heads with the xb9 piston combo- haven't seen anything with the 9 heads used with the combo on a tuber. - will the xb9 head, cylinder, piston combo not work in my s1? if this actually will work, should i use the stock tuber cam or the one from the xb9? What else needs to be changed to use these heads on the older bikes? Im guessing something needs to be done with the motor mount as well. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. | ||
| Loose1 |
There is no difference between a 9 and 12 top end. You are correct on needing a different front motor mount. Can't help you with the cam question. Matt | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Xb9 and xb12 have the same heads and cylinders. Only the pistons and cranks are different. xb9 has a cam on the pistons ,so when putting them on your 1200 engine gives a high compression and risking pinging/pre detonation. Dean8 has them on his cyclone and milled some of the hight of the 9 pistons. And xb cams are not usable ,or sitting in a other direction so the timing marks are not working. And your right about the different head mount with using xb heads on a tuber engine | ||
| Upthemaiden |
The only difference I remember between the motors at all was a longer stroke on the 12(resulting in the slightly lower rev limit), the shape on the pistons for slightly different compression, and then different gearing in the primary to make up for the lower rev limits on the 12 motor. Whatever you end up doing, you should take a bunch of pictures and post a write up on the forum. I've got a 97 S1 as well and wouldn't mind seeing what you get up to, for when I get bored in the future and want to tinker with something. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Have a read here, http://www.ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=114 66 Very interesting stuff about squish band and cams. | ||
| Phelan |
9 and 12 heads are identical. You need to shave down the domes a little if you have any hopes for pump gas, at least round the edges of the dome and take .025-.050" off. You will also need cams with more overlap, at least SE 551 OR 536 cams to have enough overlap to make the cranking pressure useable, but the atock springs are only good to about .560" lift at best, so keep that mind when selecting cams, and/or plan to replace the springs. You will need a different front mount; Hammer makes one. If the heads are 08-10 models, you will need 07-up Sportster, 08-10 XB intake flanges, and know that the gap between the heads is ~1/8" wider, so you will have to do your best to center the manifold to get a good intake seal, or buy a custom billet manifold from Hammer that is 1/8" wider. | ||
| Phelan |
XB cams are E grinds, the equivalent of SE 551 cams. They will not work as they sit in S1, because the timing marks and timing cup notch are different. But I can dual mark XB cams for XL use, and will do so for $60+shipping costs. I have dual marked cams on now 5 different occasions with excellent success, including cutting the new timing cup notch. (Message edited by phelan on December 02, 2016) | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
Lots of great info. Thanks fellas. From what i gather the stock xb cam specs are Intake 25/249/44 TDC .197" lift .550" Exhaust 59/249/10 TDC .122" lift .550" Im a little confused though, If i have Phelan mark the cams to the correct timing marks can i run them in this setup without swapping springs? (I would think, but im not real familiar with these motors) As far as compression goes, my supermoto bike is running 13.5:1 Its runs good on premium pump gas, kind finicky with temp changes and a/f mixture but definitely runs well. Im not sure if its the specs of the cams on a 450 mx motor compared to the buell but i would think 12.0:1 would work on pump gas... | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
I can get the motor (7500 miles, video of it running), complete front end (front wheel is bent though) complete front brake setup, rear wheel (no issues with it) and pulley for a grand- its about a 4 hour drive from me. I was planning on doing the xb wheel swap this winter and priced everything at about $1400 for the wheel swap then doing hi comp pistons next year. I was going to use the top end and sell the bottom end on ebay to recoup some funds. | ||
| S1owner |
All the info you need is within Phelan trust him The mount I believe NHRS makes one but not sure | ||
| Phelan |
NRHS no longer makes the mount unfortunately. XB cams can be used with the stock valve springs, no problem. Keep in mind you will also need the XB pinion gear and, if it is 06 or 07, the bronze drive gear for the oil pump (if the XB doesn't have one, I highly recommend buying and installing one anyway). I would also swap the XB oil pump into the S1, but you will have to swap the fittings. | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
The parts would be coming from an 03 xb9 if that matters any. I think i found the mount bracket here, the price seems cheap, maybe its not the same part im talking about. http://www.hammerperf.com/xltopend.shtml#heads (Message edited by knuckleduster271 on December 02, 2016) | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
(Message edited by knuckleduster271 on December 02, 2016) | ||
| Phelan |
Bottom of that page on the left is the billet mount you need ($229). Make sure to order the one for the XB heads. 03 XB9 is what I would expect, as the majority of XB9s made were 03 models. 03 still has the -98 oil pump update, but not the -07 update. Thus the 03 oil pump is a better performer than the 97 S1 piece (-91), but not the best. 03 does not have the bronze drive gear unless someone updated it (not likely), but it does have the 00-up HCR pinion gear you need to run the XB cams. You can and should also use the XB rocker lids and PCV valves, and use standard bolts in place of the breather bolts at the carb mount. This moves the breathing higher in the motor for less oil blow by. The 03 XB pulley is not the same pitch as the S1, so you will need an 04-up 65t XB rear pulley. | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
 | ||
| Phelan |
The front bracket in the screenshot you provided is a stamped steel piece to put late model heads on earlier Sportsters, not Buells. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I thought (could be wrong) the difference between 12 and 9 was wrist pin height? Same rods, but just a different piston? Along with the different dome/head design, that is. I could be wrong. Not really germane to this discussion, just trying to set my addled memory straight is all... | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/527607.html?1263154578 | ||
| Phelan |
Different rods, but wrist pin height is the same. The 9 crank needs longer rods to accommodate the shorter stroke. | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
I cant figure out how to quote posts on here so dont take any offense if i havnt replied to anyone's posts on here. Looks like im going to pick up the motor and such up this weekend. Phelan, if your interested in doing the xb cams id be interested in sending them to you once i get the engine apart. | ||
| Phelan |
No problem. Once you're ready, let me know. Just hit me up on Facebook now that you found me there. | ||
| Knuckleduster271 |
Picked it all up yesterday, stay tuned... |
