| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Got to work today. Bikes running great. Kickstand down. Lean bike. Get off bike. Reaching for helmet strap. plink-plink-WHAM. And my Uly is laying at my feet, next to the kickstand that just snapped it's bolts. }€{€]£<£}£}+<¥{£[]=¥<£<*]£|£€~¥{¥#=¥!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Panhead_dan |
They all do that. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm going to mod it a bit. Looking at it, it occurred to me that the mating surface between stand and engine is not flat. Much like the front motor mount to the head...it needs to be flat. Not wanting to disassemble and machine the engine case...I'm going to get about a .020" copper shim sheet (like a head gasket shim) to sandwich in there and see if I can't get more life out of the bolts. I think that little bit of wiggle is enough to start the stretch process on the bolts. On a lighter note...I got both bolt stumps out without any engine case work! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for the reminder to check them. The XB9 used to loosen them on its own, the Uly hasn't. So maybe it's "a lot of them do that" and not "all of them do that". let us know how the shim works. Can't hurt, and is likely to help. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The Uly is heavier, and has a longer fulcrum (sidestand) than a 9, putting more torque on the bolts. It'll be a while. I seem to stretch the bolts every 10k or so. I was noticing a bit of "S2 lean angle" on the Uly these last couple weeks but I neglected to check. Whoops. Having also just done exhaust studs, I'm considering a stud approach since bolts tend to shear at the stem-head transition... | ||
| Court |
Thanks for the reminder to check them. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I believe the 08-up XB's all have a 3-bolt mounting for the kickstand; I know my 09 engine does and the XT kickstand I installed on it matches. That seems to be a vastly better arrangement than just two bolts. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Thank you Court. My bad. I think they did add a bolt later. Eliminates the wobble that I'm hoping to eliminate with the copper shim. If I knew how much material was in the case, and where, I'd add a fastener myself. The only change I made to my stand thus far is add an 07 stand, with the longer foot that looks like a golf putter. XT maybe? I can't remember. Still 2 bolts though. Anyone know the bolt spec? I left my pieces at home today. Grrr. Length/thread? They look like 5/16"-18 to me, but... | ||
| Teeps |
Ratt, I would not use any shims between the case and side stand. Look about 2/3rds down the post. Here's what I did: (back in 2006) bolt spec included. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/287535.html Note: California Buell did the recall later that year. The same bolts they installed are still in place. I've never removed them, and have only used open end wrench to check they are still tight... touch wood. (Message edited by teeps on July 12, 2016) | ||
| Garrcano |
CA0015.02A8 5/16"-18 x 1-1/4" Grade 8 | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Ratquote: "I'm going to mod it a bit. Looking at it, it occurred to me that the mating surface between stand and engine is not flat. Much like the front motor mount to the head...it needs to be flat. Not wanting to disassemble and machine the engine case...I'm going to get about a .020" copper shim sheet (like a head gasket shim) to sandwich in there and see if I can't get more life out of the bolts. I think that little bit of wiggle is enough to start the stretch process on the bolts. On a lighter note...I got both bolt stumps out without any engine case work!" When I was having this issue I came to the conclusion, as you did, that the surfaces were not mated. I was able to do the machine work to the cases with a file. I did some machining to the kickstand mount also so there was not that much filing to do. Seems like I put some blue locktight on the new bolts too but maybe not. I posted it here at the time so maybe it can be found. Anyway, This completely ended the problem. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, it's in. We'll see how long this lasts. Bought a $1 flat file at a car show. Filed the bosses on the engine. Filed the mating surface on the stands baseplate. They were both waay out of flat. Bought two 4" grade 8 bolts, 2 flange nuts and 2 regular nuts. Ran the bolts in. Backed off 1/2 turn and marked them. Cut them off, making them studs. Notched the end with a wheel, put them in with a screwdriver, 1/2 turn from bottomed. Tightened the flange nut to hold the stand. Put the standard nuts with blue loctite behind those as lock nuts. Marked it all with touchup paint for quick visual checks. | ||
| Teeps |
I'd like to see a photo of what you have done. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I can't get my camera to cooperate, and focus on the parts. Look at your exhaust studs, where the exhaust attaches to the head. That's what the kickstand bolts look like now, but double-nutted. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
When my kickstand went bad I noticed it was leaning more than normal so I took a closer look and one bolt had sheared. I used a reverse bit from Snap On Tools, kit of them including easy outs cost me $60 from a Snap On Truck. Worked as advertised. The bolt that snapped was replaced with a grade 8 7/16 X 14. Left the other stock. No problem since. While rotating my son's 07' to fix rocker gasket leak I also drilled and tapped both of his kickstand bolts to the 7/16 X 14 and no kickstand problems there either. Buell engineers sure under engineered here and there on the ULY. Kick stand bolts, wheel bearings, ECM. Mostly a great job but here and there you have to wonder how some things got through all those sets of eye balls. Being a retired engineer I know how some things seem so apparent after the fact, hindsight being 20/20 and all. | ||
| Teeps |
I got it now Rat. Electra, I don't believe the side stand to engine mount is under engineered as much as it was adequately engineered and worked fine, if everything was perfect. That said, if the design was defective. Buell would have replaced the left side engine case to the 3 point design. Which is inherently superior and more accepting of tolerance stacking and/or other manufacturing and or parts problems. Going back to the original thread. It was thought the cause of the bolt failure was due to them being under tensioned. That was most likely due to faulty drying agent on the factory bolts. Of course Buell never divulged the "real" cause so we will never know for sure, was the design faulty or just a production problem... | ||
| Dtaylor |
I joined the club yesterday when I had a little sidestand good news/bad news yesterday on my 2008 X. A sporadic pre-ride check revealed the kickstand bracket front bolt broken and the rear bolt backed out and bent. The bad news was that I dedicated the morning to fixing it, instead of a morning-long meandering ride north to some business I had there. The good news was that the flush broken bolt backed out finger-turn easy. If faulty thread locker is the root of the problem, then I am grateful for that small mercy. The other good news was that I had a couple of new bolts on hand (CA0015.02A8), and had everything back together by lunchtime. Oh, and nobody got hurt, and I didn't lose my sidestand on the road! My engine case has three tapped holes, and I'll be putting a three-hole bracket on there sooner than later.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
This set was my second broken set. Aftermarket gr.8 bolts that I personally installed. But a) I dropped the ball on torque checks and b) I never flattened the mating surfaces. Good to know there's enough meat there for 7/16-14. |
