| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
I'm an outsider to the business. I do want EBR to succeed, and I'm pulling for them as much as I can. LAP and EBR are new manufacturers. They're cranking out something like 10 bikes per week.There must be a shitload of work necessary to get things rolling. Since I've never tried to be a motorcycle manufacturer, I don't know how much work there is, but I imagine that it's a mountain that needs to be leveled with a teaspoon. There are only so many people working at EBR. I'm sure that they're busting their asses trying to get everything accomplished, because Erik draws people with those qualities and work ethics. I'm sure that things will get sorted out, eventually. LAP is supposed to have some pretty savvy business people at their helm, and I'm sure they know what needs to get done. Why does everybody think that it all should be flowing as if EBR was a successful manufacturer who had not been shut down for nearly a year? I understand that if you were a dealer that got burned when Hero tried to royally screw EBR, you might be wary of jumping back in, but fer chrissakes. cut them some slack. They've just started making bikes again. they're trying to get the mess sorted out, and it's a real birds nest of a mess. I doubt that LAP or EBR is trying to screw anybody; especially the folks who were with them before. I also think that things will get sorted out. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Crusty, I hope you are right whether I am a dealer again or not. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I get all the squeaking about cheese being moved. It's awful when you are trying to just mind your own business and make a living. But lets be honest here. The normal motorcycle manufacturer business model of selling a 75 cent o-ring for $28.73 was a dick move from day one that we put up with because we had no choice but to put up with it. Even before the era of ebay and amazon prime, it was a barely maintainable way to exploit beholden customers. I can see why a dealer would be upset. But as customers, we should be celebrating that EBR may be the first motorcycle maker to abandon that outdated and predatory practice and offer a superior alternative. | ||
| Stevel |
Reepicheep, I'm not at all sure EBR has abandoned the overpricing business. What is your basis for that bold statement? I have seen no evidence that is so. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Reep, The problem is just selling 3-4 bikes a year cannot keep a dealer in business. They rely on the parts and accessories sales as a major way to supplement their income. And if you have no dealers selling their product I do not see a any way that EBR is going to be successful. Folks want to be able to go to a dealer and kick the tires before they drop $13.000+ have someone in their back yard that they can take the bike to if there is a problem. Not everyone wants to work on their own bike especially if it should be covered under warranty. Maybe I am old school and a new way will work but I just do not see it. (Message edited by buelliedan on April 05, 2016) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agree completely, but I think the days of that working for all the other brands and dealers are done too. I appreciate everyone who runs a dealership... but I think there are easier ways to work 60 hours a week for less than minimum wage. No matter what brand you sell. Even the Harley dealers. My local dealer in Dayton (F&S Harley / Buell) when I bought my new 05 XB9SX was already screwed. He was a neat old guy that used to dirt track race, and had a stack of XR750 motors in the back corner. I talked to him while my 9sx was being dyno'd. He said Harley told him he had to build (in his words) "A million dollar &*&^%%& museum" if he wanted to keep the franchise, and that he didn't see how that would work. He was right. He sold it a few years later (before the *(*&&^^&& museum was built). The buyers got it about the time the bubble burst, went out of business, and the franchise was sold a couple more times since then. My other local dealer in Kings Ohio had about the same experience, but he was on the wrong side of the bubble, and I believe his story ended with a bullet in his head at his kitchen table. I think EBR would be foolish to adopt the old dealership paradigms. Those practices were a little dickish to begin with, and now they are just too easy to work around. A good dealer would be a good retailer. They would have every part in stock, have an expert ready to answer any question, and be relentless in providing only the best possible service. All dealers are priced this way, but I have yet to find one that operates this way. Which makes me feel like it is impossible. Al at American Sportbike was the closest I came to that experience, but he wasn't "ride up the street" local. | ||
| Court |
>>>>They're cranking out something like 10 bikes per week. Don't you wish you knew where ONE of them was so you could go to a dealer to buy one. Nothing happens until somebody sells something. If I only had 5 dealers in the USA I'd be rewarding their early confidence by sending customers . . . .nothing sells bikes like selling bikes. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Reep, There is no possible way a dealer could have the stock of parts you are asking for. The money that would have to be layed out for that to happen would be insane! Hell EBR didn't even do that and they were the manufacture!! | ||
| Buelliedan |
Reep, So how do you think EBR should proceed as you seem to be saying there should be no dealers? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't know the solution, I just see the problem. As a US consumer, I would like a website where I could go and get full parts and service manuals, and links to an amazon prime eligible in stock parts, and cross reference guidance to local auto parts stores and motorcycle dealers that would have it on the shelf today. As for buying a new bike, I would rather take a test drive at something like an inside pass track day, or drive a few hours to a stationary test drive facility where there is expert help and a full selection of demo bikes at prime riding locations (Smokies, Wisconsin Dells, etc). That leaves service. Not a problem for me, I do my own work, but a problem for most people. Is that a van that comes to my door and picks up the bike and takes it God only knows where and brings it back? Not sure. Its such a stretched industry with such thin margins which lead to this kind of death spiral of lousy service and ownership churn. I don't know the solution, but I think one of EBR's few strengths at this time is the ability to solve some old problems in new ways. They aren't bound by scale. They have a smaller monster to feed. | ||
| Buelliedan |
It is going to be an interesting time to see what happens. | ||
| Rsh |
These guys are the North American distributor for motorcycles they import from China. http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/Default.asp There is no dealer network, and no plans to start such. On multiple forums they are receiving rave reviews for excellent customer service. It's an interesting business model that so far people seem to be very happy with. | ||
| Buelliedan |
It is very interesting but not sure folks would feel the same way about doing that for a $13,000 purchase. Like I said I may be too old school for todays ways of doing business. | ||
| Steveford |
Look at their Warranty section: Warranty Disclaimer This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied. To the fullest extent permissible pursuant to applicable law, CSC Motorcycles, LLC disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. CSC Motorcycles, LLC does not represent or warrant that the functions contained in the site will be uninterrupted or error-free, that the defects will be corrected, or that this site or the server that makes the site available are free of viruses or other harmful components. CSC Motorcycles, LLC does not make any warrantees or representations regarding the use of the materials in this site in terms of their correctness, accuracy, adequacy, usefulness, timeliness, reliability or otherwise. Some states do not permit limitations or exclusions on warranties, so the above limitations may not apply to you. If I'm reading that correctly, it means if you buy and it blows up its too bad for you, contact your State's Attorney General's Office. | ||
| Steveford |
For what it's worth, when I was a Guzzi dealer a million years ago it was basically give the bikes away and keep afloat with parts and service. Bike sales alone would NOT do it even if you lived on Oodles of Noodles. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Steve...I find that interesting because in their "features", they specifically mention a 2 year parts, 1 year service warranty. | ||
| Greg_e |
Kymco had a similar set up when they started, but then they branched with dealers, even my little town had a Kymco dealer for a while. | ||
| Steveford |
Yeah, I see that: 2 YEAR WARRANTY: 2 years parts and 1 year service So which is it? The bullet point under the bike or the paragraph with the Warranty Disclaimer? I don't think I'd want to find out for myself but maybe an owner has chimed in somewhere? It just dawned on me, if they're shipping bikes around the country and there's only one dealer, who is going to do the 1 year warranty service? | ||
| Lake_bueller |
^^^ My understanding (from what I've read in the cycle rags) is that they contract with local shops to perform the warranty work. Not sure how that works if you're in a smaller city or town. TONS of praise for those little bikes on advrider. | ||
| Rsh |
CSC encourages owners to perform there own service. They offer multiple service tutorial videos on there web site. As Lake_Bueller noted: If your bike needs warranty service and you are uncomfortable or unable to perform the needed service CSC will contract and pay a facility of your choosing for warranty service performed. Like I said, its an interesting business model. Rave reviews from people that own or have owned many of the big name bikes. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting- A 2014 1190SX up for auction on eBay by seller LAP. Cheap, but no warranty: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222076161238?ul_noapp=true | ||
| 1313 |
2015. Notice the red spring on the rear shock and the VIN also indicates it's a 2015.  I thought it was interesting when I saw it on eBay last night too... 1313 | ||
| Buelliedan |
Looks like LAP noticed it too and now it says it is a 2015. | ||
| 86bgn |
This type of business model is similar to what I was talking about in another post a while back… why don’t they just sell direct to customers with discounted prices, then set up certified service, and warranty facilities, with reputable shops in every metropolitan area? They already have parts distribution through parts unlimited. If the getting is good for the shop, then they might want to start keeping a few complete bikes on the floor. Let the people that are excited about EBR start getting excited, rather than trying to get dealers on board that may only be motivated by the how much profit they can make on a single motorcycle sale. I will be honest, I went to a local dealer and tried to work a deal out on a left over SX. They gave me a reasonable estimated trade in value on my bike. I already had two banks pre approve me for the difference, and thought I was going to leave on a SX. When I got there, the sales manager was not even interested in retailing my bike because they were a “Yamaha, and Ducati” dealer, and it was a VRSCDX. He started calling around town for sight un seen buy bids from other wholesalers. There was no way I was going to take a total bath on my trade, trade in money is one thing, but $2000.00 under book, there is no way. While chatting with another “sales guy” while I waited, we talked about how Buell riders love Buells, and how they are loyal to the brand. I compared it with the cult following that exists with VFR’s / Interceptors. He asked me “never heard of that, who makes those?” Then said, “I will be honest with you, most of the customers know more than me, I just try to sell them something. If you want something really fast, you can’t beat Ducati” That dealership did EBR no justice at all, if I was EBR, I wouldn’t want my product in that dealership. I wouldn’t want it anywhere near them! EBR is better off selling it direct to customers, and letting word of mouth spread. Empower, and train experienced local shops to do warranty repair, and replacement parts on them. They are the ones in the weeds with the customers that will latch on to a brand and spread the word. In time the ones doing the most warranty work, at a highest level of customer satisfaction would be the ones that they could then start floor planning a few bikes with for the tire kickers. You can build on that and it can become successful. | ||
| Bjbauer |
How about placing them with dealers on consignment? The dealer has nothing into it until they sell it. | ||
| Buellsrule |
How about selling direct and having a killer, interactive website with parts, accessories along with service videos? I think that this would appeal to the majority of buyers. EBR could contract with certain dealers for support. The riders will see to it that the brand is promoted. Take care of the riders and they will take care of you. Forget the dealers doing anything. They simply can't or won't. Time for a new way of doing business. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I believe Parts unlimited is no longer distributing the parts for EBR. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I do not know why this keeps coming up: EBR CANNOT sell direct to a customer it is ILLEGAL for a manufacturer to sell directly to a customer. By law there has to be a dealer in the transaction. (Message edited by buelliedan on April 06, 2016) | ||
| Snacktoast |
Dan, is that only the law in some states and not others? How does Tesla sell their cars direct in some states? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Court posted this a few days ago that should answer that question: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/2015/05/direct-consumer-auto-sales-its-not-just-about-tesla (Message edited by buelliedan on April 06, 2016) |
