| Author | Message | ||
     1_mike |
Well my starter still seems to be doing its job fine, but is my throttle position sensor dying ? The engine is running a little richer than normal at all rpms. If I do a TPS reset, "that" drive is fine. Reset the TPS, drive my 42 mile drive to work, all is fine. On the way home, not running right. In the morning, do a reset, all is fine, reset before leaving work, all is fine. First thing in the morning, NO reset, runs rich (excess soot in the tail pipe). Back to a reset, all is fine again. Looking for a Sensor on the price list, don't see one noted. Are they the same as something else (like the starter), or is there some hidden number somewhere ? Thanks for any help. Mike | ||
| Malott442 |
02 sensor feedback?, wonder what your bike is seeing... | ||
| 1_mike |
Hmmm...yea, what a dummy, I haven't checked for faults... First thing in the morning. Mike | ||
| Ebrfan |
Mike, before you throw money at replacing different sensors an experiment worth trying is in order. 02 sensors need heat to operate under normal parameters, so here is a test to check that... First, with a cold bike see if it starts and acts rich in the morning. By your accounts it should be rich, but shut it down immediately, before it has a chance to warm up. Reboot the system as you have been, start it and see if it runs good, then immediately shut all power to the system again and restart it after it again after it cools down. Does it revert back to being rich and stay rich after the third cold start? Now, with the cold bike again, reboot the system so it will run correctly, start it and run it around town until the whole bike is up to temp, stop and shut down the bike/computer. Now restart it hot and run it. Does restarting it with it warmed up hot revert the ecm back to running rich and faulty so you again need to reboot the ecm to get back the proper mix? If so then look to a fault in the ecm programming, if not then look to the 02 sensor only being faulty when it is cold. Let us know what you come up with. | ||
| 1_mike |
Ebrfan, all - After a 42 mile drive, the 02 sensors "should" be plenty hot, morning or afternoon...and normally are. After almost 8800 miles, this thing should still be like new inside... It's difficult to tell if the cold morning part of the maps is really "too" rich. Though I can feel it after the afternoon trip home, sitting at traffic lights. Yes, seems every time I shut it off after a "prolonged" (50 to 70 minutes) run time...restarting the next morning, it's back to its rich (sooty pipe, not so good running) condition. No past or present error codes show on the screen. Did not do a reset this morning...ran like junk. Will do one before leaving work...see if the recent norm still holds true. I can't make any long distance phone calls till a week from Friday...look's like I be doing a lot of TPS resetting. Mike | ||
| Stevel |
O2 sensors have internal heating elements that are driven with Pulse Width Modulation. (PWM) O2 sensors must be maintained at temperature to function correctly regardless of the type of sensor. (wide band or narrow band) Your fault is certainly a sensor failure, but it may not be the O2 sensor. It could be others as well. An error will only occur if the sensor output is out of range, shorted or open circuit. The only sure way to locate this fault is to use a break-out box at the ECU and monitor those signals during operation. The fault could be the ECU, the sensors or the wiring in between. Don't forget good grounds are imperative. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the O2 sensors actually work. They aren't driven with a pulse width modulation signal (I don't think), but they create something like one. For zirconia, there is reference air inside a chamber inside the sensor, and the outside of the sensor is in the exhaust stream. When the outer air has less oxygen than the reference air, the oxygen ions are moving through the zirconia one direction and creating a small charge of one polarity. When the outer air has more oxygen than the reference air, the charge is the opposite direction. And I assume they have some kind of amplifier to translate that into what is basically an on/off signal. Now when operating, the sensors are measured, and when they go high, the engine management system changes fuel to try and drive them low. When they go low, the engine management system changes fuel to try and drive them high. So the net effect is that the sensor should be constantly bouncing back between high and low as the engine is constantly adjusting. I still don't understand two things yet though.. 1) Is it a pocket of reference air always sealed in the sensor? Or ambient? 2) How does the engine translate between the concentration of the reference air and get that to a correct stoichiometric air fuel ratio? Perhaps it is sealed, and what is sealed is the optimal oxygen concentration for an internal combustion engine, and that explains both my unknowns (but leads to another of explaining why the sealed in oxygen doesn't get "discharged" over time in it's reaction with the Zirconia). | ||
| Henshao |
I could be an idiot but are you resetting your bike after a ride while it is warm or before a ride when it is cold? | ||
| Stevel |
Reepicheep, There are many articles describing these and how they function. The link below is just one. http://www.ngkntk.co.uk/index.php/technical-centre /lambda-sensors/how-does-the-lambda-sensor-work/ | ||
| Snacktoast |
Mike, I believe the EBRs have a "memory" fuse for the ECM. The ECM receives constant power from the battery at key off. Im not sure which position in the fuse box it is, however, if the fuse is popped, the bike will run, but it wont permanently remember your TPS reset and will revert to whatever the previously set value is. Check all of your fuses and let us know. | ||
| 1_mike |
I got a couple of ideas from the guys at IDS. I'll be tearing into things this weekend. Mike P.s. - Yes, the reset is "before" I get out on the road. No need to do it when I shut it for down for the night and have to do it again in the morning, because the key went to the off position for the night or the 9+ hour day at work. Reread my post...reset in the morning. | ||
| 1_mike |
Found my problem. The intake is pulling raw fuel from the fuel vapor line into the intake. Seems the little round valve (I think it's a valve) screwed (two screws) to the frame is letting raw fuel into the vacuum line somehow. I plugged the vacuum line from the throttle body to the purge valve. The richness is gone, the overall driveability is "WAY" up, the power is back up. All is well. Now to figure out the little valve bolted to the frame. Mike |
