| Author | Message | ||
     Captainkirk |
Does anyone happen to know yearly production numbers of the M2 from '97 until 2002? Also, I know the HP of the 97s was around 77 or so-does anyone know the max torque? Thanks. | ||
| Tripp |
8108 m2 97-02 1754 m2L 01-02(figures from fuell, i found this on the dc brag site from the links here) | ||
| Tripp |
besides the seat does any1 know if there are any other differences in the m2 & m2L? | ||
| Aesquire |
M2 & M2L differ in : Fork Sliders & internals Shock seat Kickstand. I think thats it. | ||
| Bigj |
General hp and torque for a stock '97 M2 was about 68 rwhp and 70 lb./ft. torque.  | ||
| Tripp |
thanks aesquire, i wonder exactly what kind of impairment this is to the handling cause i have what appears to be a low seat already, but i'd like to make her another inch shorter although not at the expense of her great handling! | ||
| Aesquire |
Tripp, Heck, until you bottom out the suspension, Not an issue. My 180lb. bud thinks it's harsh, but It's fine with me. ( a petite 240 ) I seldom hit the stops even on New York roads. Try a lowering kit, & drop the forks to match? www.americansportbike.com check in "control systems" or find some one to swap bits with. | ||
| Socoken |
Tripp, Ive got the M2L and want the higher version. the downside to riding lower is less cornering clearance, and im 6'1'' so i want the height. as far as the handling goes, well, mine handles well enough to drag both damn foot controls in a corner, but i havent ridden a standard to compare the two. if you wanna swap shocks and fork sliders and internals, im game! | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, Are you really getting second gear wheelies with the N8's? | ||
| Captainkirk |
Tripp/ Bigj, thanx for the numbers! | ||
| Socoken |
Kirk, right after i got it running, i did one, where you chop the throttle, then nail it, came up real nice, but it was on an empty tank of gas, and i just happened to do it perfectly. my bike is outta tune, loading up real bad when just cruising, so i think the plugs are fouled and the bike is kinda hit or miss now. i might be getting in for a dyno tune next week and that should help. dollars to doughnuts says if i had a mikuni on there it would be easy as life to pull up in second. ill let you in on more when i learn more. Ken | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, Now I'm drooling! Can't wait to get my N8! (Hey, I'm a poet and I don't know it) Get the Mikuni- There's some great deals on eBay now- around 250 for the HSR42-11 kit. I snagged one a couple of weeks ago along with the race header and pipe and race air cleaner. Just looking at it (the HSR) I can tell messing around with the CV40 is a waste of time and money.  | ||
| Tripp |
ken sounds good i checked out the lowering kit and it's $300+ , i cannot afford besides i'd rather spend the money on a mikuni hehe. so any ways i need to do some work in my primary, the chain seems to be slapping around in there real good but after that i'll gladly swap fork guts and shock with you, hopefully i can take care of the primary this week end and while i'm in the service manual i'll check out what's involved with the lowering job, i would think it should be relatively easy! i'll post again shortly in this thread. thx tripp | ||
| Captainkirk |
Anybody know if Andrews sells (cams) direct? Or do you have to go through a dealer? | ||
| Captainkirk |
Nevermind! They do.  | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, You're the only one I've heard of having to lap in your cams. Anyone else have this problem? | ||
| Socoken |
i could have just stuck them in, they did turn, but that extra friction is HP lost, so i did it out of perfectionism. anything worth doing is worth doing right, and i wasnt gonna spend all that time and money on those cams to half ass it when it came right down to it. so no, i didnt need to, and no, im sure not a lot of other people do it, but i would if i was you. all it takes is a little lapping compound and some time, why not do it? | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, Ok! I'm all with ya on the clearance. By the way, have you noticed any more gear train noise than before? I've heard of some guys complaining the aftermarket cams are "noisier", though with the race exhaust I'll be installing I doubt it'll be an issue... PS- while you were in there, did ya pull your oil pump gear and check it? | ||
| Socoken |
i didnt pull the gear, but i checked it. i didnt ride it beforehand to check it, so im not sure about the valvetrain noise level, it was always loud, and its pretty loud now, so i cant tell if its any different. ive got a V&H exhaust, and its loud, and i still here the clackin' of the VT. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Socken... so you did not see significant wear? How many miles were on it? I am trying to get some data points on if this is a chronic across the board problem, or related to a particular batch of parts or design revision... Thanks! Bill | ||
| Socoken |
about 10K, and wearing well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks! Thats good to know. So some of these things are in great shape at 10k, others (i.e. mine) are about half way toasted. Others are even less fortunate, and grenade at 18k or so. I will inspect my replacement gear after another 10k or so miles, if it looks perfect, it was probably a bad batch of drive gears. If it is wearing as well, then its something else... | ||
| Bomber |
reep mine (22K) looks fine (and please don't ask how difficult it was to get my glasses to focus on the right distance while laying under the bike . . . . ) | ||
| Captainkirk |
Reep, I'll be installing cams in a couple of weeks. I'll check it then and maybe even shoot some digital pix for you. ('99M2, 10K) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Great... thanks for the updates. My 2000 M2 had serious wear after about 18k miles (as I recall). It was not totally dead yet, but I am glad it's replaced. Just gotta try and put another 10k miles on the bike this summer and see if the new one wears any less  | ||
| Djkaplan |
Hey Reep, I think we touched on this before, but my 2k M2 didn't have any signs of unusual cam drive gear wear - or any wear at all - at 20,000 miles. If you're being meticulous about documenting this issue, I'll send you my VIN. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nah... just general year and model. I am not trying to build a court case or anything, just trying to figure out who we should target with the appropriate "heads up". Currently, I don't see any pattern, and probably never will. I likely avoided blowing an engine by spending about 8 hours and $50, a heck of a good deal. Just want to share the wealth without crying "wolf". | ||
| Captainkirk |
Reep; Just for GP- are there any (improved) aftermarket oil pump drive gears out there? Or aftermarket Hi-po pumps, for that matter? I haven't seen any in the catalogs I've got. Anyone? I'm sure SOMEBODY must make one! BTW-in a related question, what's the general consensus on oil coolers on the M2? My brother swears by his (Jagg,'97 M2)  I read good things about the Spurgin in B2win, but I thought it looked like crap mounted by your left foot (didn't they make a movie...?)Besides, it would probably toast my tennies. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Zippers used to have a bronze part, but no longer make it. We have not looked hard for any other source. Oil cooler on an M2? Probably harmless, so long as it has a thermostat built in. Once I started running full synthetic oil, I have not seen any runability problems related to temperature. It is also not a magic bullet, I believe an oil cooled engine is built differently then an air cooled engine with an oil cooler added. That being said, it does give you a little more margin I suppose. | ||
| Bomber |
the spurgin (with thermostat) dropped my oil temps (2000 MaDeuece, reworked stock carb, S&S-like air cleaner w/K&N element, wileyco can) considerably, specially during track days -- before the cooler, 90+ degrees f ambient, oil guage pegged (at 250 and a smidge) after cooler installation, same ambient, 220/225 although on the street, it has to be really hot (ambient) and traffic-jam-like for it to have much of an effect -- most times, I can barely feel any heat from it with a bare hand -- it'a a little overkill, for my bike and riding, anyways, and will come off in a week or so to be replced by a less visually intrusive unit that won't have quite the cooling capacity | ||
| Djkaplan |
The one thing I don't like about the Jagg cooler is the mounting location on the M2. It looks like it might be vulnerable to damamge if you drop your bike on the left side - can anyone verify this? I like the Spurgin unit because it comes with a thermostatic valve and braided steel hoses. It also looks like it would survive a low side without damage. It's on my list of goodies. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Captainkirk, I have a Spurgin on my M2. I think it looks quite good. Much better looking I think, than a radiator type like the Jagg. You can also mount it on the tube that slopes down from the front of the frame. That way, it's not cooking your left leg. But it seems to not get hot enough to be a problem. See the picture in my profile. | ||
| Bomber |
DJ if you can get Spurgin to sell ya the thermostate housing, adaptor and hoses at a price less than the entire thing, I'll be glad to send you the cooler (let's talk?) | ||
| Captainkirk |
Thanks for the info. The jury is still out on the cooler. I never thought about collateral damage in a left side dump- would kinda ruin your day! Dave, I'll look at your profile pix again. I wasn't aware you could mount it on the downtube. I've also seen the billet coolers on eBay that sandwich between the filter and engine, but they just seem all wrong to me. I've read the testimonials, which smack of snake oil salesmanship to me. Any feedback on these? As for the pump, I guess late model production sounds like the best bet.  edited by captainkirk on April 18, 2004 | ||
| Captainkirk |
Referencing my post in the Xboard... What seems to be the "average" life of a tuber top end? (before rings and cylinder work). I've got 11k on my M2 and change the oil every 4-8 weeks depending on mileage. Running HD 20W50. | ||
| Crusty |
I had 60K on my S3-T when I traded it in for my M2. The gentleman who bought it said that everything inside the motor was in excellent shape(except the primary adjuster). I changed the oil every 2,000 miles, using HD 20-50. My M2 has 33K on the odometer, and it seems pretty oil tight. I think you can get 100K out of a top end, if you keep fresh oil in it. | ||
| Blasterd |
Bomber, If you or anyone wants to sell thier oil cooler I would love to pick it up. The Florida heat just cooks my bike at stoplights. Ken | ||
| Captainkirk |
Thanks, Crusty. That makes me feel better! I heard rumors of 25k on a Sportster but I question whether that particular person really ever changed his oil. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Bought a Buell carbon fiber race cleaner with a small crack in whatever it is they use for clear-coat over the CF. I'd like to seal it up. Any suggestions? I was thinking maybe 2 part epoxy or clear nail polis  h.... | ||
| Bomber |
Blastered -- couple of weeks, the cooler itself will be on the block . . . . .cooler only, though, as I'm hangin on to the lines and t-stat and all Capn -- 25K on my Y2K MaDeuece . . .. oil changes (mobil 1) every 2/3K miles . . .. . . .. . all good so far | ||
| Captainkirk |
Here's an off-the-wall question for you! Monday night I drove up to my local H/D "squealership" to pick up one of the few Race ignition units left in the country for my M2. All very well and good. But as I was leaving the store, the alarm set off, so I returned back inside and the gal behind the counter took the bag and ran it over the merchandise de-mag before I had time to protest. As it turns out, it was my cell phone that set off the alarm. Now the question; Will the demag hurt the ignition unit? I need to know this now because I won't be installing it and the rest of the components I bought over the winter until the list is complete-at least several weeks from now, if not a month. And that would be a bad time to find out it's messed up a) warranty wise and b) availability wise, as these things are fast disappearing. I guess I could put it on the bike and try it out without the rest of the components installed IF that won't hurt anything. (Does the unit only affect rev limit, or does it affect advance curve as well?) Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!  | ||
| Outrider |
Hmmm...No response yet would indicate you have situation that isn't widely experienced. Either that or nobody is seeing it on this thread or they are to busy catching up on all the work they shined this week to post on the BWB, etc. LOL Noting your dealers location in your profile and assuming you are nearby, I suggest calling Buell Customer Service and hopefully getting through to an engineering type that can be of assistance. Additionally, I would back that up with a nice letter and copy everyone you can including the dealer that caused your dilemma. No sense in getting stuck with a potentially damaged discontinued part without recourse. Dang, I can't wait to read the answer to this one | ||
| Aesquire |
I doubt it's a problem. A call ( polite ) to Buell service would cross the "t's", and cover your butt. The low power used in anti theft tag erasers has not bothered any electronic gear I've bought these past few years, ( CD/DVD burners, MP3 players etc. ) So I would relax, grumble, & cya for safety's sake. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Thanks, guys! I'll take that info and run with it. I'll also let ya know if Buell responds, and what their response was. | ||
| Captainkirk |
After some thought...I doubt that the demag would damage the unit, I just want to be sure as I won't be installing it for a bit. I do intend to call Buell Tech Support, though, just to be on the safe side.  | ||
| Captainkirk |
News Update on the demag! The Oh-fishul stance of Buell Customer Service is, and I quote, "...shouldn't have any effect on it at all..." and some other words of encouragement to that effect. I will note, however, that I was not allowed to speak directly to Tech Support as I was not affiliated with a dealership...so this was passed to me second-hand. Let's hope they're right!  | ||
| Captainkirk |
Anyone with experience on rear isolators.... I've been noticing my right rear isolator bolt sagging more and more lately. I don't notice it much because I've got the Buell bolt covers installed. It's to the point where it's touching the edge now. One dealer mechanic took one look at it and said the isolator is toast. Another one later on looked at it an noted that there was no distortion on the outside, and led me to several used tubers on the showroom floor, one with 2000 miles on it showing the same condition and told me not to worry about it. These are the newer isolators.(post-1998) The have the raised "b" on the side, supposedly the "good ones". I'll try to post a couple of pix.   | ||
| Steveford |
I don't know if it's toast or not but it would be prudent to replace both rear isolators with the later style. My S3 had a tear in one which wasn't noticeable when it was stil on the bike. Bit of a job and you'll have to cut away a section of the sprocket cover as well. | ||
| Crusty |
There's a kit to upgrade your isolators to the newest type. it comes with Isolators, button head torx bolts and a new sprocket cover. The big plus is that it costs less than the price of 2 isolators alone. The part number is: Z0010*CB according to my receipt. Last June it retailed for $64.10. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Steve,Crusty, Thanks for the info! Do I dare try to change them myself? I do have a Handy Lift (lift table) but nothing to support the tail section after I pull the swingarm. Suggestions? | ||
| Steveford |
You really want a front wheel vice on your lift, a cherry picker, shop manual and the factory frame spreading/isolator squishing tool. A really neat one is to weld up what looks like a door frame with feet that slide onto the sides of the lift out of angle iron and then use ratcheting tie downs in place of the cherry picker. You might as well lube the swing arm bearings and you'll need a fish scale for setting the preload. | ||
| Crusty |
I use the method developed by Jay Hawley (founder of ATC). I unbolt the swingarm carrier from the rear of the transmission and pull it off with the swingarm. I tried the factory frame spreading tool. The first time I used it, it broke apart. That was in May of 2000. I've heard that the factory has improved it, but I've found it to be unnecessary. I prefer this method over the factory method because I don't need a lift to raise the frame, I also think it's a little faster. | ||
| Captainkirk |
I've got a front wheel vise on the lift and I can get a cherry picker from work. My MAC Tools guy sells a rear isolator tool for Buell manufactured by Motion Pro- any feedback on this one? BTW, I appreciate the feedback! I just hope I'm not setting myself up for BEEG PROBLEMS!  | ||
| Captainkirk |
Hey all, After a quick 60 mile jaunt today, I noticed the fourth/fifth upshifts were not the usual definite "clunk" as 1/2/3 were, and the last 10 miles I seemed to have trouble downshifting to second and first. First thought was "primary chain" so as soon as I pulled in the driveway and checked the primary chain (HOT) for freeplay...or lack thereof. Though I could move the chain with my finger up or down about 3/8th of an inch, I would in no way, shape or form call this "free play". As to actual "free play", there was none. Now I understand all about coefficient of expansion and all that, but 'Zactly HOW MUCH "real" free play should the chain have HOT? I know what the book says about cold free play, I also know engines aren't cold unless they're not running. Also- if this is my problem, why would the freeplay grow LESS? I can understand freeplay getting worse as things wear. This is the first ride over 30 miles this year and I've had no problems in past years. Is something else up? Also,any user feedback on the self-adjusting primary? The time to do it would be when I put the bike down for cams and race kit (a couple weeks from now). | ||
| Socoken |
heres the M2 with custom airbox paint and crossroads clip ons. put the clips ons on yesterday, felt great, more fun in corners, way more aggressive riding position, felt really, really, good, for about the first 20 miles. after that, things start to get a little uncomfortable. i have put on 500 mile days before, but it doesnt look like i will with these bars, thats for sure. it only takes about a half hour to switch them out anyway.  | ||
| Socoken |
closer view of the air box  it was a simple idea really, use carb spray to get wrinkle finish off, sand, and paint, sounds easy right? i bet i have like 10 hours in that damn thing, most are in front of a tv or computer, but still. 4 coats primer, 3 coats black, 2 coats yellow, 3 coats clear. all spray paint of course, but i ended up with a nice finish. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, Looks great! Did you put the chin fairing on yourself, and how much did it end up costing you? I've been wavering between putting one on and not. Last time I checked it was about $300.00 including mounting hardware and brackets and was available prepainted......but that was then, and the times they are a-changin'. As for the clip-ons, I went the other way and did the S3T bars and can ride for hours in relative comfort. Anyway, looks great!  | ||
| Socoken |
kirk, thanks bro, i appreciate the reply. ive got closer to 200 in my chin fairing total, but i bought it on ebay and had it repainted. paid 75 for a nice gray one, then paid 75 to have it painted. there is one bracket and some spacers you need to buy from the dealer, the rest i got from a hardware store. somewhere a little under 50 for the mounting hardware total. if i had to do it again, i think i would have been more patient and waited till i found a good deal on one that was already my color, that woulda saved some cash and time. i actually won mine on ebay by accident, just put in a low bid thinking it wouldnt get it. i just love how it looks on my bike, but they are a pain to keep clean, and they are just one more thing you have to take off to work on things. those are my impressions anyway. thanks Ken | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, One of the things I've been wrestling with is whether or not to mess up the Naked look thing the M2's got goin' on. That's one of the reasons I haven't jumped on a fairing yet (tho I will admit to doing a few lowball bids on eBay). It looks good on your bike tho! I say keep it.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks, I've been wondering what to do to make the Breadbox look better. | ||
| Blasterd |
Bomber, you have mail. Ken | ||
| Bomber |
Blastered . . . .perhaps I do, but none from you . . . . edited by bomber on May 26, 2004 | ||
| Socoken |
got my new plates today.  | ||
| Captainkirk |
Now that the Ma Deuce is post-op on the primary (Man, it felt good to crank on it again!), I have a concern. The seedy little clip holding the detent plate on to the shift drum just scares the hell out of me. Does anybody know of any successful transplants with something a little more, shall we say, 'stout'? I realize there are tons of evo Sportsters and Buells riding around out there, but hold that fragile little clip in your hands and you'll cringe too. Any ideas? |
