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M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 06:36 pm: | 
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Oil pump gear probably... Also, Buell's are generally driven a little harder than the average sporty... |
Dyna
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
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my question is why does a bike with only 13,000 miles lose a rod?
That sounds like a newbie question
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 09:12 pm: |
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quote:my question is why does a bike with only 13,000 miles lose a rod?
Second law of thermodynamics. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 09:38 pm: |
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I've seen brand new ZX12R's throw rods with 1500 miles on em |
Crusty
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 10:24 pm: |
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All engines break. I think that there was a bad run of oil pump gears that the Mothership refused to acknowledge. They're showing up on Buells more than Sportsters 'cause Buellers tend to put more miles on at higher revs. I know that the basic evo sportster design is sound. I put 29,000 totally problem free miles on an '86 XLH1100, 60,000 miles on a '98 S3t that had a shitload of problems, but none were engine related, and my current '00 M2 (33K+) which had ONE lifter go bad. That's over 120,000 miles with one bad lifter.
When H-D started taking over Warranty claims, the muttonhead at the MoCo refused to warranty my 5th broken saddlebag inner because, "you must be mistreating it". When I explained how many miles I put on, he refused to acknowledge a problem, and said that he wasn't receiving any warranty claims from anyone else, so that proved it was my fault. At the time I had around 50K on the bike.
Harley may have saved Buell financially, when the recalls hit, but I really think that unless they wake up real soon their present policies will cause Buell more harm than help.
Now then Dyna; why don't you head over and pick up the remains of your X1, and see about getting it fixed right; that way you can start to enjoy riding your Buell like the rest of us? You know that you'd love it. |
Dyna
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 11:19 am: |
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Not all of us have a bag full of $100 bills for major repairs to a bike. Some times its better to just cut your losses & sell the thing, that is if you can find someone to pay at least close to what you owe |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |
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Another grenaded 99
Why am I sharing these pictures ? cuz shit happens . This engine showed signs of oil starvation , in particular the crank pin was blue ! , a large groove burrowed into the middle where the front conrod bearing rollers run . This could also be viewed as evidence that the rod bearings were fit too tight , a condition I have witnessed previously ( more than once ) on engines of similar vintage .
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Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 01:59 pm: |
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Makes a brotha wanna cry |
Andys
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 08:22 pm: |
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Anon,
Oil starvation? I'm NOT questioning your diagnosis, but I do have questions.
1) If all the rod and main roller bearings are "splash" lubricated how do these bearing starve for oil? (Of course I'm comparing this to a plain bearing motor.)
2) What can we (I have a 98 S1WL) do to help prevent this from happening to our motors? Is there a part we can upgrade or something we can keep an eye on?
Thanks for helping us understand. Thanks for the honesty. |
Snail
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 10:50 pm: |
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Take the $2.2K and RUN DON'T WALK to the Suzuki dealer and buy a Haybusa! |
Jrh
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 08:16 am: |
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$2200! I'd take the cash before he changes his mind.I've got $5000 of extras on my 2000 M2 with 4500 miles and can't sell it for $4000 in my area.In fall of 2000 a brand new M2 sold for $5995+tax,set-up here. |
S2pengy
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 12:14 pm: |
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At least up through the 1998 model year the crankpin was pressure luded off the pinion..... |
Bigj
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 05:22 pm: |
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Snail:
Is that an objective opinion? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 01:18 am: |
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Take the $2.2K and RUN DON'T WALK to the Suzuki dealer and buy a Haybusa!
Hayabusas are going for only $2,200? Dang! I want one too! Not really. I want two! ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) I think I'm finally convinced that I need a good touring bike. |
Snail
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 02:18 am: |
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Blake, you need a good touring bike, and the Bus is the one! With $2.2K down, your payments would be managable.
Why do you want two? They're not like Buells, you don't need a complete parts bike... |
Peter
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 03:31 am: |
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In fact, you don't even need a Busa.
You need an R1200GS.......  |
Justin_grant
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 09:35 am: |
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It was an oil problem according to my tech at the shop. He said the oil pump was failing and caused a starvation problem. It is totaled as far as I am concerned. It was fun for as long as it lasted...
On to a new bike! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 10:53 am: |
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Andys... drop your oil pump and look up into the hole at your oil pump drive gear, look for wear on the teeth. Topic has been beat to death here before, complete with pictures.
Justin, can you get a little more detailed information for us? How does a positive displacement oil pump fail over time? Seems like the design is kind of a "pump or die trying" type deal. I am wondering if this is another case...
What does the wear look like on the surviving teeth (if any are still attached) or on the oil pump drive gear pieces that have been recovered.
The more I think about it, the more I begin to see Court's point. My M2, with $3500 in Aaron or Pammy's pockets, would be a heck of a lot nicer then any other bike I could think of anywhere near that price range.
Still really sucks though. |
Tripp
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 10:23 pm: |
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since we're on the subject check out these pics
was i running on one cylinder for a while or what?
i dare to compare material loss on that piston with anyone! |
Captainkirk
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 11:43 pm: |
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Y'all are scaring me now! I thought the '99's were immune to the oil pump drive gear fiasco! Anon, if you know something we don't, please clue us in! Reep, in your past posts you mention checking the drive gear; should I be checking mine? |
Dynodave
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:05 am: |
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I see a coupla problems...
The first thing is the FUEL starvation/over LEAN
condition on that cylinder.
Having seen this happen; I know...
The Piston melts, diffusing lots of junk through the motor.
The oil pump, rods, etc are collateral damage.
I do NOT believe that oil pump failure caused this.
Rather it wuz the piston disintegration. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 07:53 am: |
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I've seen brand new ZX12R's throw rods with 1500 miles on em <~~Spidey
Ahh, that was a day to remember...LOL |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 08:29 am: |
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I have no idea who should and who should not worry about the oil pump drive gear, but I do know that you can check the thing on your next oil change for a total cost of about $1 and maybe 30 minutes of your time. All you need is a new oil pump gasket, some teflon tape, and a couple cable ties.
Just drop the oil pump, crawl under there, and look up into the cam chamber, and check the condition. It's not the gear on the oil pump that wears, its the gear that drives it up in the cam area.
I was not tying to say this or any other failure was caused that gear failing, just reminding people that its a really easy check to do once every 10,000 miles or so. Replacement is a PITA, but checking it is easy.
Here is the knowledge vault entry on the topic... with pictures...
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=156011#POST 156011 |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 10:14 am: |
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Now that I think about it... it should be pretty easy to find some of the teeth from the oil pump drive gear even after a catastrophic engine failure, and measure their thickness.
If the gear failed from ingesting a foreign object, they should be just ripped out and beat up, but the teeth should be reasonably thick.
If that gear failed first, the teeth will be badly worn and very thin.
The wear on this gear is painfully obvious to the naked eye when you inspect it. Anony has the teeth in the above shot, just not close enough to see how they are worn. |
Bigj
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:39 pm: |
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Those are some very cool pictures. |
Tripp
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:50 pm: |
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thx, i believe my oil pump failed due to piston material seizing it up, but i figured i'd show a few pics anyway, i found it a big coincidence at 13k a 99m2 blown motor but i think mine was definitely a different part that failed, i think i was a little low on oil and at the time of the engine failure i was going about 138mph for a couple of minutes taching way up there over 5k and probably just under the rev limiter. |
Tripp
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
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that's part of the piston melted on the cylinder, dynodave that indicates the fuel mixture being too lean? wow if that was the cause i'll be damned! you bet i'll be running rich from now on! i really want to pick up a mikuni anyway as soon as i can afford it, still licking my wounds after the $4k top end job! so far however i'm glad i kept my bike cause i don't know what i could have bought for four g's that compares to a nallinized cyclone!
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Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:54 pm: |
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BTW Tripp, I am a bit rusty on the reading of sheet music...would that be a death dirge you have used as a blotter for those parts? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:10 pm: |
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Guess it's time to face the music... or maybe pay the piper  |
Tripp
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:48 pm: |
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lol, not quite a death dirge hehe, mother natures son actually  |
Sandblast
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:22 pm: |
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DynoDave- How lean does something have to be to get hot enough to cause that- everyone says M2's come a little lean stock, but it would have to be waaaay leaner than just a little to heat up like that wouldn't it? Just curious. Also I looked in your profile Justin to see what kind of mods you have, and it says you get alot of backfires, cant some backfires be caused not just by unignited gas but by an intake leak? I'm just thinking out loud trying to learn something... |
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