| Author | Message | ||
     Fred_is_not_me |
Bike has 5000 miles on it. I got the rotor upgrade and new stator rewind. Assembled everything myself and now getting this high pitch squelch when starting bike. What is odd is I recently put a new battery and it turned a couple times. Then the battery went completely dead. Got a brand new battery and this is the sound I get. Won't even turn over. Here is a clip of what is happening WITH MULTIMETER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5opA50alWOM Sounds electrical and not mechanical. (Message edited by fred_is_not_me on September 23, 2015) (Message edited by fred_is_not_me on September 23, 2015) | ||
| Shawns |
Sounds like a relay. There is the solenoid that goes directly to the starter and the starter control relay in your relay box. Jump the solenoid to see if it will crank. If not, you might have the friction clutch gear and balancer misaligned when you reassembled. Not to be a dick, but you did you take out the crank locking tool? | ||
| Panshovevo |
I'd say start by charging and load testing the battery. If it checks out, inspect the wiring for a short to ground. If there aren't any, open it back up. Something is causing a bind. The VOM indicates a huge voltage drop that can only have two causes, weak battery or excessive current draw. Sorry this isn't more specific, but I haven't been inside one yet, Will be shortly, I believe. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
not me fred... go here...(scroll down to look for Zac's post on alignment pins) http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/697724.html?1381902356 the stator cover has a supporting feature for the crank end..it could be causing the seizure...use of some light grease on/in the feature prior to assembly helps...the alignment pins help hold the gasket in place and center the cover... you may want to cut a small slot in the tapered end of the pins to help remove them (one at at time with a small screw driver, and then install the OEM screw) the squeek that you're hearing sounds like a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier...under stress ( too many amps)) used in the voltage regulator... once you get it running check the charging voltage vs RPM.... that positive pole (+)of the battery is awfully close to the frame rail (-)...might want to wrap some electrical tape around that frame tube near the battery connection...motorcycles are known to vibrate...hope this helps | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Just a quick update... Here is what Shorai said about original battery I had: FYI on the returned battery. The wire disconnected inside of the battery which could indicate a poor connection or possibly from excessive starting current. If the engine doesn't crank over easily with the new battery please inspect your bike for a poor ground, starter wire, worn starter or other issue that would be causing the engine demand excessive cranking current. Twins can be hard to start sometimes. If the engine hits TDC and stalls out(stops turning the engine over) release the starter button right away so it doesn't draw too much current. After releasing the starting button you can try it again a few minutes later to see if it clears TDC and starts easier. For the best starting and longest lifespan keep the battery near full charge (14.4V). If the battery resting voltage drops below 13.1V it should be charged before use. A resting voltage of 13.2-13.6V would be normal. | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
I definitely don't have the crank locking tool in there  . I was pretty careful putting that stator cover back on. I didn't use the same size bolts, but I had some small guides in each place. Nothing in that section area was oiled, though. All the oil was drained and cleaned up before I reinstall everything and added more oil to engine. I can't get the rear wheel to move at all in gear. I had someone sit on the bike and I tried to get it to budge and it won't move back or forward in gear. I tried multiple gears. I don't know how to jump the solenoid, any tips on that? As far as I know I don't see any issues with the grounds. I did have some issues with mice over the winter, but the only chewed cable I found was the license plate lights. They have been covered with tape. I tried another battery (it was older), it seemed to perform worse. | ||
| Shawns |
The solenoid can be jumped momentarily with a screw driver between the 2 larger terminals. You can also provide 12 volts to the small green wire in the 2 pin plug coming off of the solenoid. Low voltage causes all kinds of weird stuff to happen. A poor ground will do the same. They black Tyco relay powers the starter, I had to replace mine. It's worth a check. Do you have manuals for your bike? When you did the rotor swap, how far did you break down the sprag clutch? It won't spin properly if it's in backwards. | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
I have a pdf of the manual. I removed the big metal part off the back of the rotor (the piece with the 5 or 6 black bolts). The rotor was sent to Twin Motorcycles. I never removed the bearing from that metal piece. I just screwed the metal piece back into the rotor. (Message edited by Fred_is_not_me on September 23, 2015) | ||
| Zac4mac |
Fred You need to remove the ignition cover, it has galled the crank end. Clean it up with file/Dremel/sandpaper then put a dab of oil/assembly lube on the crank end before re-assembling. this happened to a few of the early stator fixers. There is very little clearance and ANY mis-alignment will gall and seize. Z | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Zac4mac... so, drain engine oil, remove stator cover, inspect starter gears, I imagine I could just try to start it with the cover off, right? So, you think that there is a mechanical seize, which is causing the electric to overload? | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Have a another question. If I added oil and the engine only turned over a couple times, is that enough to get oil pumped through to the stator side? Not even sure how the oil is pumped through the bike. Just wondering it I can take stator cover off without draining oil. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
...the level of the oil is too high, the "sump" is too shallow...this is not your father's American V8...if you want to go "Flat Rate Mechanic"....get a mover's blanket/jack stand/2x4s and tip the bike over on it's right side (Throttle side) as far as you can without breaking anything (mirror/brake pedal/front brake lever)...once you got her over on her side...attack the stator cover screws...you may get some residual oil after you get the cover off so have some rags/paper towels handy ( try NOT to get any oil on the belt/brake disc)...once you have the cover off inspect the end of the crank/inside the cover...that is where the scoring/seizing is taking place....if you're feeling lucky...you can try and hit the starter with the cover off to see if the engine will turn over...but don't let the engine start | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
I ended up draining the oil  . Now I cannot get this stator cover off. I have obviously done it before with significant pull l, but this thing will not budge. I am going to rip my arms off trying. I even tried taking a few puller arms for leverage with some cloth tied around them and that thing won't budge. I may have put a touch of blue loctite on each cover screw when putting then on... I can't remember... I have tried hitting the cover with a rubber mallet and a towel. I have pulling with all my might. This cover is not moving at all. ... and yes all screws are out . (Message edited by fred_is_not_me on September 25, 2015) | ||
| Zac4mac |
Fred It's the galling and the magnets holding it together. Pull the screws and run 4-6 install dowels in. Start separating with a very thin knife blade or .010-.020" shim stock and taps with a nylon or leather mallet around the edges. Be very careful not to bugger the seal-faces when you pry or you waste the case. Z | ||
| Nuts4mc |
...Fred, you may want to heat the center of the cover with a Harbor Freight heat gun ( I wouldn't use a torch or open flame)...the cover will expand at a faster/ greater rate than the end of the shaft...as Zmac has said if you use the rounded off bolts (install dowels)and a thin knife/feeler gauge you can start to remove the cover( you're gonna need gloves as the cover will get hot)...you're going to need a new gasket. | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Could a gear cause that much a problem with the cover? Is it that tight in there? In any event, I'll get some nylon/plastic wedges and see if I can start prying this thing off slowly. I couldn't get any part of it to budge, so this is definitely going to be a job! Anyone recall the dowel sizes I should get from the hardware store? I did a search, but wasn't able to find measurements. So, if I am going to heat the entire cover up... I should take off the plastic cap at the end and just start blasting heat? I was a little nervous about the surrounding wire. And will it destroy the powder coat on it? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
not me fred.... the cover has a support in the center, supporting the crank...it has a close tolerance...it is galled/seized and is hanging on to the cover...all the "gears" are back near the main cases... yes, remove the "plastic cap"...you want the try and focus the heat in that area... the "dowels" are 6mm bolts, a little bit longer than the OEM hardware...take one bolt out at a time a measure it...add 1/2" ( 13mm) to the length...buy some 6mm screws/bolts that "new" length, cut off the heads with a hack saw, taper the cut off end with a bench grinder/sander...install in the engine to help "center" the cover and "manage" the pull by the flywheel ( rotor's) magnets...if you don't use the dowels ...you'll be fighting the pull of the magnets and may gall/seize the center support even more. hth powder coating is achieved by heating a plastic powder to high temps...I don't believe the case covers are powder coated...I believe you can buy engine touch up paint at Al's (American superbike) (Message edited by nuts4mc on September 30, 2015) | ||
| Zac4mac |
quite certain the cases are painted, as Nuts says, touch-up paint is available. I keep several colors handy. Focus heat around the center of the cover, that's where she's stuck. It's not a gear that's galled, it's the end of the crankshaft. Take it slow and tap a lot. Hundreds of small earthquakes are less damaging than one BIG one. A propane torch will do but MAP gas or Oxy-Acetylene is a hotter point. Water ice is 32 dF and dry ice(CO2) is -109dF. use it on the crank. Z | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Just to see what would happen I had the heat gun run for about 10-15 mins on the cover right in the middle. The cover got warm and the inside of the cover (checked from sticking finger in cp hole) was hot. Tried just doing a little pulling and tapping, but no movement. There was only one point where I heard a tiny little budge. I did get some dowels to help. I am going to try to heat a bit longer tonight and start tapping a bit more. Any thoughts on trying to start while heating it up? Think it would pop anything loose? Wish I had some pictures of how gnarly this might look on the inside. Would put in perspective. | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Well just tried again and the thing won't budge. Heated the heck out of it. I can't even move it enough to get anything in between the case and the cover. Wonder if I can call a shop and see if I can just get a flat fee to take the cover off. Have them work at it for a few hours... just hate to have a shop destroy my stuff. | ||
| Stevel |
I have been watching this thread for awhile and it appears to me that the cover end bushing was damaged when it was reinstalled after the rotor upgrade. When the engine was restarted, the bushing has now seized to the crankshaft end. So, you now have at least a damaged cover and a very good chance it may not be able to be saved. You must be very careful you do not trash the engine case. You need to find a replacement cover and prepare to destroy the existing cover by drilling and tapping the screw holes for a larger bolt. then using those threads to jack the cover off the crank with bolts. | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
I was thinking of a way to do that, didn't think to tap the cover holes only. Would have to be careful. Not sure how I would jack it out, though. Not really anywhere to place the jack... Can't place it in the center because it would just be pushing against the cover. If anything might be able to use a slide hammer? | ||
| Stevel |
The bolts holding the cover are 6mm. drill and tap just the cover for 8mm or 5/16"-18, whatever. Then use screws of that size to jack the cover off the engine case. You will have to use a bottom tap to get threads as far down the cover holes as possible. It's tricky, but doable. | ||
| Panshovevo |
The threads would have to extend all the way through the cover holes to be able to run jacking screws through them. That will be a challenge... | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
I took the snap ring and oil plug put to expose the crank nut. Was able to turn it with about 200 lbs of force. No odd sounds, no scraping noises. | ||
| Zac4mac |
If you can turn the crank, you're not (or should it be "you aren't"?) fully seized. The magnets in the rotor are very strong, that is why you want install dowels when putting it back on. If you have a helper, try to pull on the cover while turning the crank. A shot of P-Blaster can't hurt either. Z | ||
| Nuts4mc |
looking at the stator cover...it appears that it might be able to "daisy chain" a couple of large hose clamps together and clamp them to the Outside Dia. of the cover (this clamping has to be tight as this is where the idea will fail, but not so tight that you'll crack the cover)...you can then try "hooking" some tie down hooks on the edge of the hose clamps where there is a "gap" in the clamping surface...lay the bike down on it's side (clutch side down) ...or steady it vertically with some helpers and then hook a slide hammer to the "hoops" formed by the tie down straps and give the slide hammer a good wack..maybe with some heat it'll move and slowly come off...best of luck fred | ||
| Zac4mac |
I like Steve's idea of threading a few holes on the perimeter and using bolts/eye-bolts for pulling. If you have a plate big enough to catch 5 or 6 holes you might be able to use a center bolt on the crank and draw the cover off. Awful lot of work, but it's your engine at stake. Z | ||
| Footstuck |
Hi Do you recall re-installing the washer on the end of the starter pinion shaft(i think that's what it is) because if it came off during assembly, it would end up on the outside of the rotor, jamming up the casing and preventing removal. It would also give the 'high drain'issue on cranking with the bolts removed, tap the casing to receive 3 forcing screw (in a triangular configuration around the rotor housing). cut down some casing screws and slot the sawn end so you can reinstall them in their original positions with a screwdriver. install your over sized forcing screws over the top of them and I we'll all keep our fingers crossed gently does it! Good luck mate | ||
| Fred_is_not_me |
Okay, I am back. Felt a bit defeated by the bike so I in a way took a break. Have been reading everyones responses, so i do appreciate. I did reinstall the washer and have thought about that, but know way of knowing until I get this cover off. I have a bunch of old brake rotors from cars that I can drill into. The inner diameter of the cover hole is about 6.5 mm. The outer diameter is about 12 mm and the depth of the cover only is about 18 mm. With the brake rotor being so thick I can drill tons of holes into it and not really destroy the integrity off it, so that makes my job a little bit easier. I am trying to find a thread pitch that will work well in the cover that won't destroy it. Something that won't strip. Also the brake rotor already has a massive hole in the middle of it. I could put the screws though the rotor and get a 3 way jaw around the rotor. |
