| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
Ok so maybe "one more..."  20150814_182656 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr Having purchased several revolvers in the past couple years I realized I've had the same couple autos for ages and did not have a 9mm of my own. After years of considering a polymer framed auto I went with a modern 1911 instead. It's not mine yet, but is on layaway locally. It will get different grips and I may purchase a holster for it. The manual safety is a very wide paddle that I will need to thin down some. It is Springfield Armory's Range Officer Compact which has these features: - 4" Bushingless match grade cone style ramped barrel - Alloy compact frame - Dual spring guide rod - Novak style sights with a fiber optic front - Beavertail grip safety with a "memory groove" - Long lightweight trigger with lightening holes and overtravel adjustment - Skeletonized commander style hammer Normally Colt would be my go to but this gun outclassed the Colt offering with a better fit of components and being technically superior to the more traditional Colt while costing over $100 less. The Colt is certainly prettier but I'll take function over finish every time. The Colt has some history in being the first Commander offered as a lightweight 9mm in the 1950's. The Springfield is a bit more practical for my uses as a carry gun. The Colt already has a bit of a collector interest as it was introduced in the beginning of the year with the entire line then discontinued soon after. The full size frame of the Colt is a hindrance and the traditional two piece ramp is not ideal for 9mm. I like the simplicity of the bushingless set up and the dual spring guide rod set up should be more durable than the traditional arrangement as well. The RO Compact should make for a nice lightweight carry gun and folks report they make great shooters that live up to the "match grade" claims. It's a neat little gun.  The existing autos in .40 and .45:  20150312_112037(0) (1) by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr I think it'll fit in quite well. My wife asked what I had on layaway and I showed her this $3560 pistol:  I let her sweat that one out overnight. Apparently in response she's now shopping for furniture  | ||
| Poppinsexz |
fail #1- never let her know. fail #2- fail #1 then showing her stupid price Proper method. Leave house with gun case(empty) if asked, tell spousal unit your going to the range. Later return to house with guncase(full). Put new gun in safe. Live happily ever after.  Seriously, That's a nice piece, She may even enjoy it too. Mines hitting me up for a tradein from her work. Smith compact 40. | ||
| Sifo |
I've heard the 9mm 1911s tend to be kind of finicky feeding the ammo. I know mine tends to be. I found that setting the over all length of the cartridge just a bit longer than spec gets it working flawlessly. I'd be curious to hear how the Springfield is with this once it's broken in. Nice looking piece! | ||
| 86129squids |
Poppin' LOL, LOVE your mindset! Good stuff. | ||
| Oldog |
Very Nice!, Springfield Builds nice kit for sure! | ||
| Rick_a |
She knows EVERYTHING. She probably won't enjoy it, though. She has literally no interest in 1911's at all due to not liking the feel of them. She likes her Ruger P89 for some reason (was mine, but she had to have it) as well as her Browning Hi-Power (which I admit is awesome). She'd like to get a Walther PPK at some point, which is fine...she's just not in any hurry (though she's wanted one for as long as I've known her). Sifo, what 9mm 1911 do you have? The guns with traditional barrels can be finicky as to the type of magazine used, from what I've read, as well as the ammunition to some extent, especially in regards to hollow points. It seems the one piece ramp barrels tend to fare better with 9mm. Most of the current designs from the higher end companies seem to share that belief, it seems. I don't have a finicky gun yet, and certainly don't want one now. Springfield Armory has a deal now for a couple additional mags, another mag pouch, and a range bag until Dec 31. I think my timing is pretty good. The kid is also excited as I let him pick out his own "hunting gun"...a T/C Venture in .223. He wants a wood stock (Boyds...kinda pricey with custom options) and a scope of his choice (cheap, but should be fine for a .223). He's bored of shooting airguns in the back yard and wants "real guns" to shoot at the range. That's fine. Initially I overlooked these guns but they have a really smooth bolt, great reputation for accuracy, and are overall well made, though are a bit bland in appearance. The stock especially is, well...better than the really cheap guns but still cheap feeling.  | ||
| Rick_a |
They are quite well featured for standard production guns and the customer service, according to actual customers, is unparalleled. | ||
| Sifo |
Rick, I've got an STI Range Master. It does have the one piece ramp on the barrel. It's a wonderful gun with the right ammo. I logged the misfeeds for a while and found no correlation to the magazine I was using. All four of my mags were misfeeding. I've been told that this is because the 1911 was designed around the .45 which is slightly longer than the 9mm. I'm not sure how true that really is, given that the ramps in question are not an original 1911 design anyway. All I know is that my problems went away by setting my OAL slightly over spec. It's not a defensive weapon to me though, only target, so I haven't really tried to find high quality defensive rounds that will work with it. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I just picked up a Canik TP9 (p99 clone) a few months ago. A new, dark earth Gen 4 G17 three weeks ago. When I was buying the G17, they had some 1911s next to a $1500.00 Kimber. Metro Arms American Classic. $5xx.00 for a similar build. They let me shoot one side by side with the Kimber. I couldn't tell a difference in function, plus the fitment of the parts seemed better than any of the other 1911s in stock. All steel, Novak sights, front and rear serations, great trigger. Bud's has them for $470 online+FFL, puts me within a few bucks of the local gun shop. | ||
| Aesquire |
Try Federal Guard Dog. Seems to feed like hardball in most guns ( like the gun was designed for hardball.... which it was ) but some don't like the truncated cone shape. Performs the same through plaster, heavy leather jacket, etc. as it does with no barrier. It does penetrate less. ( one reason I like it ) if you need more there is a Law enforcement version that's faster, goes deeper, but kicks more. Since I don't need to shoot folk in cars like the F.B.I. wants to........ I'm looking at the new Ruger lightweight Commander, which has a titanium feed ramp & firing pin. Reviews look good. | ||
| Tootal |
The term is called "Fiscal Equality"! Be very afraid!!  | ||
| Buellish |
What do you guys like for a compact 45?Kahr,Springfield Armory or what? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, I prefer a cheap but reliable .380 for my compact .45 ... with the full size .45 in the gun safe beside it. Both a 1911 and a Sig P220 if you please. | ||
| Oldog |
Rick, My Son in law has a Stainless 1911,Springfield with a clark Comp BBL sweet and tight... My tastes run cheap I have a nice Taurus 1911, not a fan of the novac sites, fitted a tighter BBl bushing, thinking about a Bomar site, Wish I had asked for the mount rail version in black.. | ||
| Sifo |
Try Federal Guard Dog. Seems to feed like hardball in most guns ( like the gun was designed for hardball.... which it was ) but some don't like the truncated cone shape. Performs the same through plaster, heavy leather jacket, etc. as it does with no barrier. It does penetrate less. ( one reason I like it ) if you need more there is a Law enforcement version that's faster, goes deeper, but kicks more. Since I don't need to shoot folk in cars like the F.B.I. wants to........ If that was aimed at my issues, it's not an issue for me. My 9mm 1911 is strictly a target weapon. I should go back and retry the Critical Defense rounds I carry in my defense weapons though. Perhaps it's less finicky after the many thousands of rounds it's been fed. I know they are designed for hardball ammo, and I tried a few brands through it during break in, all with more hiccups than I would tolerate in a defensive weapon. Right now it feeds unjacketed semi-wadcutters without any problems at all as long as they aren't set too short. On the idea of faster rounds penetrating deeper, that often doesn't hold true. Have you watched the youtube series by ShootingTheBull410 that he call Ammo Quest 9mm? He's done tons of testing of various rounds into ballistic gel, including muzzle velocities. He's focusing on short barrel 9mm defense rounds, so velocity is a critical factor. If the bullets don't get up to speed, they don't expand well and over penetrate. It's a series of videos that I would really recommend for anyone looking at what ammo to shoot from a short barreled 9mm. I think he did the same sort of testing for .380 also. | ||
| Rick_a |
Pow'RBall is another FMJ like HP...but my own guns don't need such stuff. Sifo, how's it do with factory ammo? Folks seem to have good luck with Metalform and Tripp magazines. Wilson Combat has just come out with an improved 9mm mag as well. The only stoppages I've had in my 1911 in the past 15 years have been recently due to insufficient crimps on a few hand loaded rounds. I ignore the manuals as far as OAL and duplicate lengths for factory ammo that I have on hand. Oldog, for a CCO (Concealed Carry Officers) sized, lightweight ramped barreled 9mm 1911 at a reasonable price this is about the only choice out there. Money isn't too much of an object, but the high dollar customs have a level of fit and finish I don't need. If I don't have the money it's just a matter of needing more time to pay it off. Buellish, I don't like any compact 45's as most are not particularly pleasant to shoot. Much like my choices in motorcycles, being fun and easy to use are good attributes to have. An exception for me has been steel framed Officer sized 1911's. They are a bit heavy and require frequent recoil spring replacement. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Funny Rick, my 45 jams were the opposite problem, I over crimped them, and they wouldn't feed all the way. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, how's it do with factory ammo? I've shot a fair amount of Fiocchi FMJ through it. A few other brands too, but would be pressed to say exactly what. I'll probably see about 2-3 failure to feeds per box of 50. More than I would want to trust my life on, but for target shooting, it's not bad practice for clearing the failure. I honestly haven't tried much in the way of JHP that I would consider a self defense 9mm round though. I don't really consider FMJ a good choice for self defense either. It works well with my semi-wadcutter hand loads, and I like shooting them because you can see the hole much better at a distance giving better feed back on your shooting. All considered, I'm afraid that my efforts to find factory ammo that it likes has been halfhearted at best. Hopefully you will find your Springfield to be an omnivore. I certainly wouldn't condemn another 1911 based on my STI. Looking forward to your results. | ||
| Rick_a |
I'm using Lee factory crimp dies which are impossible to over crimp, but the odd short case can let a loose crimp slip by. It's only happened a few times so far with Winchester brass only. They caused a few feed jams in the auto and a couple funny sounding low velocity shots in the wheelgun. I'll plunk test random rounds before heading to the range. I used to do every round, but haven't found that necessary. | ||
| Rick_a |
My mutt of a 1911 will feed empty cases between live rounds. If a factory built gun did not prove 100% reliable with factory ammo I'd be disappointed to say the least. Have you tried contacting STI for assistance? Have you tried checking extractor tension? Being too tight can cause feed issues. | ||
| Sifo |
I can certainly understand your viewpoint, and I'm not excited about it's limitations. No, I haven't done the things you suggested. As I pointed out, my efforts have been halfhearted, given that it performs the duty that I purchased it for. Perhaps I should have pursued it with STI. My bad for being lazy about that. I really should reevaluate it now that it's well past being broken in. From what I've been told by a shooting buddy 9mm super is the way to go with a small bore 1911. Kind of defeats my purpose of going 9mm though. | ||
| Rick_a |
Folks say .38 Super is best. 9x23 is preferred by competition shooters trying to make major power factor. Neither as calibers are nearly as practical as 9mm. That said 9mm has been successfully used since 1950 so I'd think such guns should be sorted out by now. Aside from Colt both SA and STI have been making reliable 9mm's for some time. Most manufacturers have a few models in their lineup these days. | ||
| Blake |
Speaking of effective ammo... http://youtu.be/ClJcJ8LQFbQ | ||
| Sifo |
Folks say .38 Super is best. I actually woke up in the middle of the night wondering to my self - Did I really say 9mm Super? Yes, .38 Super is what I should have said. I had a long afternoon yesterday... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've shot a 1943 GI issue 1911 that will feed anything, anytime, forever without a jam. I've futzed forever with a 1991A1 forever, both on the ammo side and on the gun cleanup side, and gotten it "pretty good" (feeds most types of ammo both factory and handload with less than one failure to feed every 50 to 100 rounds). I love 1911's, but I think if you want a reliable one, you need to send it to a guru and have them tune it. Or maybe buy a pre-tuned one from the factory (which I suspect a Kimber would be, but I've no first hand experience with one). You can probably get one gone over for reliability using mostly factory parts for $100 or so, and it will come back both more reliable and more accurate. Or get a Sig P220, it *always* goes bang right out of the box. | ||
| Rick_a |
Assuming it was built correctly to start with, most maladies are due to extractor issues, either loose fit (clocking), improper tension (too tight or too loose) or not contoured properly. The latter two can contribute to feed issues (too tight and/or not shaped correctly. Guns with improper throats and ramps are another issue altogether. If it doesn't work after a brief break in period, let the manufacturer fix it. It's their job. For a GI issue to feed anything but ball ammo, and a modern gun to not work with anything is atypical to say the least. This is about how they should look:  Once the guns are set up right they tend to stay right. Aside from replacing recoil and firing pin springs at appropriate intervals there should be no voodoo involved. 10-8 has a pretty good general guide for long term 1911 health: RELIABILITY, ROUND COUNTS, AND LONGEVITY IN 1911S This is some decent "fluff and buff" advice for roughly machined guns: 1911 Reliability Secrets There's no real secrets there, and in general I'd advise to "put the Dremel down." If it gets a marginal gun working it can't hurt. I love mine. It's among my first and is my most used, most carried, and highest round count pistol. After installing an oversized firing pin stop early on it's been flawless. | ||
| Rick_a |
Kimber has custom shop guns on the upper end but most of their guns are regular production line items. If a gun has less than 500 rounds through it Kimber will not entertain a service request (which some folks find appalling), and their customer service has a legendary reputation for being among the worst. That said many folks think a $1500 pistol entitles them to a lifetime of free parts and refinishing, and that's simply not how it works. Many folks think regular wear and finish tear should not happen on a fancy looking gun. If folks want no discernible wear on a gun they should leave it in the box  Being slightly more expensive doesn't change that so I don't know what people are thinking sometimes. I think the truth is somewhere in between the newbie 1911 owner that is disgusted in having to shoot some break in rounds through his shiny new dream gun and the Kimber service guys that have to deal with said customers complaining about break in and regular finish wear issues. (Message edited by Rick_A on September 10, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
My guess is that the GI gun I was using had some work done by somebody sometime between 1943 when it was built, and when I got quality time with it in 2003 or so. The 1991A1 is a good gun. I did the normal "fluff and buff" on the feed ramp and barrel, but did not touch the firing pin. It probably should get a new recoil spring as well, it's had a LOT of rounds go through it. I never touched the extractor, my failures were generally failures to seat the round, and that was mostly (but not completely) caused by me crimping too aggressively (which bulged the cases lower down). Easy to fix if you just run the loaded round through the resizer die  . | ||
| Rick_a |
Gotcha. Blake, I'm not into the new +P or +P+ ultra lightweight wonder bullets. I usually stick with Winchester, Remington, and most often Hornady hollow point ammunition in standard pressures. I shoot a fair amount of it and it's always been good, consistent, and accurate ammo at a reasonable price. I like HPR as well when I can get a hold of it. | ||
| Oldog |
I love 1911's, but I think if you want a reliable one, you need to send it to a guru and have them tune it. Or maybe buy a pre-tuned one from the factory The Taurus PT1911 works well, range reload is almost 100%, My reloads checked in a Dillon case gage, and checked for length jam last round, one or 2 in 200, rounds, the Taurus has had about 3000 rounds put thru it, Magazines can be an issue as well. I have had may be 2 jams that were not the last round, in one case the spent primer popped out of the case, the other appeared to be mag related. The Taurus mag has died, and McCormic is my mag of choice. I used to own Wilson Combat, they were not flawless. } |
