| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Hopeful but at the same time cynical article on EBR's future: http://www.themotorcycleobsession.com/2015/08/is-b elfer-for-real-thoughts-on-future.html | ||
| Dave |
Good opinion piece. Admittedly irrationally cynical. Thanks Hugh for digging these up. DAve | ||
| _lightshow |
Interesting. Aggie or Longhorn? I'd like to know. _jon ( Not from Texas,although I picked up my SX there)  | ||
| Sprintst |
thanks, good article Though I think I'm about the only 50 y/o guy that doesn't want a ADV (Message edited by sprintst on August 15, 2015) | ||
| Mog |
Very good article. My sentiments exactly. As for Sprintst... you might be the the only 50 y/o that does not want an ADV but I own a Uly XB12X, have taken it off road and used it in the MSF off road/ADV courses conducted at our farm. I never bought it as an ADV and if so would want something at 270 pounds, single cyl, 650 cc, air cooled. The XB12X excels at 'what ever' one would call it.. I have ridden it from Daytona to Wilmington, NC stopping only for gas (500 mi), superb!!! So you can add me to your list of over 50 y/o (71y/o) that do not crave an ADV. If Erik and Bruce want to make a winner, start by building the parts on hand into bikes and sell along with the finished 1190s. SOooo..... First thing..... complete a task you started (1190s) cheaper. Second......... pay the bills. Third............ show me the faith. Fourth.......... lots of smiles  | ||
| Usmoto |
I hope it all pans out. In between my other bikes I always buy a Buell of some kind. I'm waiting to see what comes out of EBR/Buell/Belfer cycles/etc. lol | ||
| Ducley |
I got out of playing in the dirt when I turned 16. ADVs are interesting but not generally what I would put my money down on. The most recent bikes built near what visually I like were the 2000's Ducati GT1000 classics. Spoked wheels like my old '75 860GT duck. I still like a half fairing for some wind protection. I'm not entirely comfortable on my S3T. Sits higher than I'd like. Sounds like the S2 rides more like the 750 Paso I had for 20 yrs, sitting in the bike not on it. O ya, graduated HS in 81. (Message edited by Ducley on August 20, 2015) (Message edited by Ducley on August 20, 2015) | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Either Ducley posted in the wrong thread, or that's the most random post ever on Badweb. | ||
| Ducley |
Was mostly paralleling Mog's comments. What I like. What I would spend money on. Over 50 not wanting an ADV. Sorry if that wasn't clear. (Message edited by Ducley on August 20, 2015) | ||
| Ljm |
Over 50 as well. Don't want an adventure bike. I hope, though, that the new EBR does some serious market research and pitches to the people who are more likely to buy what is available now, and what they plan to build. I also hope they tie us owners back together, e.g. BRAG, HOG, etc. then let/help us fly the flag as well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
To me, the difference between a good adventure bike, naked standard, and sport tourer is really just aesthetics. Like bats and birds, they started from way different places, and got there different ways, but ended up pretty close to each other. And yes, I'd like one. But I don't have "new bike" budget room. The most interesting EBR to me was the turbo diesel scooter that doubled as a generator. *That* I might buy. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I am way over fifty and also not interested in an adventure bike BUT what I AM interested in is a bike that I can do all the work on myself relatively easily. A bike that is tough as a box of hammers and is reliable. A bike that is versatile to the extreme so that I can use it for work, for vacations and for daily errands. Yes, I do the grocery shopping on my bike. I always have and I see no reason to change now. I am a carpenter and occasionally have to haul my tools on the bike along with my lunch and a gallon of water. Based on the above, it's easy to see why I bought a Ulysses. | ||
| Stevel |
EBR made the cardinal error of ignoring the Buell community of loyal customers. It was fatal. It's great to make new bikes, but not at the expense of the existing customer base. New sales will only occur with customer confidence of continuing support. I sincerely hope the new owner understands this. As a loyal Buell follower, I could care less if my Buell product was made at a HD facility or not, Erik did. I have read lots of reasons why this happened, especially from Court, but it never-the-less was a large error. It remains to be seen if the new EBR will step up with support, as HD support dissipates. | ||
| Snacktoast |
EBR made the cardinal error of ignoring the Buell community of loyal customers. I'm calling B.S. on this. You don't seem to grasp that there were a multitude of restrictions placed on EBR for support for Buell product. Every last bit of the Buell name and original equipment product is owned and controlled by HD, including technical support. So, please share with us how EBR was supposed to ignore that legal hurdle to support a product that they did not manufacture. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
^^ I read Steve's post differently. EBR deviated from the things that made Buell motorcycles fun, exciting and unique. EBR set out to make an 'exotic" motorcycle instead of a "muscle" motorcyle that was at the core of the former Buell brand. That shift did not "support" wants/needs/desires of the loyal Buell community. | ||
| Buelliedan |
EBR made what people were asking for. If you go back 5 years on Badweb we were all asking for a fully faired race replica with super high hp. When pics of the Barracuda were shown everyone on here was saying how they wanted one if they would build it. How Buell needed to modernize their line of bikes if they wanted to compete. Now everyone is saying they wanted what Buell used to build??? This is the kind of stuff that drives a manufacturer crazy!! (Message edited by buelliedan on August 21, 2015) | ||
| Lake_bueller |
I personally don't what Buell to build "what Buell used to build". But I also don't have a want/need/desire for a race replica high hp machine. The adv bike market is saturated but still growing. But for how long? The reason why I'd buy one for my next bike....comfortable without being a cruiser. | ||
| Ljm |
Bingo, Dan. But when they made it, people complained that it was too much, too fast, too expensive, etc. If I had been sitting in East Troy trying to figure out who my customer base was when the RS came out and the RX was on the board, it wouldn't have been us (as of around 2013). I would have focused my efforts on the customers of other, comparable brands. Wherever they go from here, I hope the identify a target audience and pursue them exhaustively. I am pretty sure that it is not going to be reintroducing the old Buell models, because someone else owns the rights to those. If that's all we want as a community, it is probably not going to be us. | ||
| Twobuells |
Which segment of motorcycling will put EBR back on the map and boost consumer confidence? What's the next big hit? What bike will say to a current rider and or a new rider, "I want that bike?" Maybe its four bikes. Racer naked/standard ADV bike Dirt Bike/Dual Sport or a race able Dirt bike you can plate in all 50 states (KTM is doing that well) | ||
| Hughlysses |
It seems pretty obvious that circumstances forced EBR into a "top down" model strategy. In ~2010, Erik had the rights to the Rotax 1125, a few engineers, a lot of corporate knowledge, and not much else. The 1190RS was the bike EBR could build that required the least design effort and tooling while returning a reasonable profit due to its very high price. ~2 years later, the RX was a logical extension of that: mass-produce the engine (the RS engine was hand-built from left-over 1125's), use conventional suspension components, and ramp up production, all to cut the cost, while requiring less engineering and tooling effort than any conceivable alternative would have required. Erik has clearly stated that more mainstream, less expensive models were in the works. These models would have taken a lot more engineering and development effort. How much remains to be done to bring these models to market is the $2.25M question. I'm guessing these new models, IF "new" EBR can get them in production, will appeal to a lot of the Buell crowd. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I'm way over 50 and would love to have a replacement for may Uly. I may not get off the road that much but do occasionally hit a 2 track. A fair number of gravel roads too. Always been a fan of "standards", probably why I like my M2 so much. | ||
| Coolice |
SX You need to ride one. Was just getting to the dealers. The S-1 next generation. Off topic but just sayin. | ||
| Slaughter |
Like or not, believe him or not, Belfer is the ONLY hope for Buell/EBR right now. As one of many who feel PERSONALLY connected to the East Troy moto-designers/constructors by ANY name, I hope my faith isn't misplaced. Owning 3 1/2 Buells, I hope to eventually add another to the stable but it'll have to be one that I can count on being able to service/be serviced, and ride... and ride... and ride. I can pretty much work on the XB and Tuber without a manual now. Would HOPE to become nearly as familiar with a NEW Buell/EBR/Your-Name-Here. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Hugh, You hit the nail on the head regarding the powertrain specifically. Powertrain development is HUGELY expensive. And it takes a serious amount of time. The best way that EBR had forward, at the time, was to continue to evolve the 1190 powertrain into what it was on the RX/SX. It was the only logical step given the company's financial situation. And I would say that the engine turned turned out damn good given the circumstances. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think the 1190 was the only option EBR had. The power plant for follow-on models is the real question. Was EBR able to acquire info on the middle weight 3-cylinder Buell was developing prior to closure? Did EBR start development of their own versions of the engine(s) they designed for Hero like the HX250R or the Hastur? If other engines are developed or nearly developed, there will be a lot more near-term options as EBR moves forward. | ||
| Phelan |
Hugh, exactly. EB was extremely limited on options, with a high chance for failure. He did it anyway,and managed to keep the company afloat for 5 years and produced 3 motorcycle models sold worldwide. Let's be considerate and thankful of the level of achievement he's reached and keep faith and hope for a brighter future. (Message edited by phelan on August 28, 2015) | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Add me to the list of riders past the half century mark who are uninterested in an EBR adventure bike. To succeed in that market you have need service and parts availability all over the globe. That was fine when Buell made the Ulysses and had Harley dealers handling parts and service. Harley currently has about 1,500 dealers in 90 countries; EBR will have nothing even remotely resembling that kind of dealer coverage in the foreseeable future. | ||
| Oddball |
Fmaxwell, At first, maybe they can't fully cover that need but it doesn't mean they wouldn't eventually. What if the AX was made to be as durable and reliable as an ak? What if it was easy to diagnose and fix as well as the ability of owners to order from anywhere in the world they needed and get parts quickly shipped to get back on their "adventure"? Ok, there would still be a limit to how far into the unknown wild they could venture but still. LOL, pictures Court HALO dropping into Bolivia for an owner in need. I look at the AX as a possible useful machine. A bagger isn't exactly a 'cool' bike but it's a useful one to have if you like to spend as much, maybe all, of your life on 2 wheels. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nothing personal, but I am going to contest that point. Kinda. I actually agree with you on the conclusion, I just disagree about the history. I live in the heart of the midwest, less than 8 hours from pretty much every Buell and Harley Davidson production facility. I have four different Harley Davidson dealers that carried Buell within 90 minutes. By the time the XB's came out, do you know how many parts I could get from my local Buell dealers? Virtually none. Usually they would have oil filters and maybe on a good day a primary derby cover gasket. Maybe, on a good day, they would have something like a primary cover gasket or oil pump gasket. Forget a cam cover gaskets, and forget any "real" parts. If I wanted those parts, I would have to go physically to the dealer, tell them what I want, pay them, and they would order it. About 3 days later, about half the time they would remember to call me, about half the time I would have to call them and see if it came in. Usually, about a week later, the part would be there, and I would have to drive back over and get it. Compare that to when I buy from Amazon, or even Dennis Kirk. Browse to the site, pick exactly what I want with information (before I buy) about inventory and how soon I will get it. Click buy. Then in 2 to 4 days, without another brain cell firing, the part just magically appears at my front door. So while you are right that being able to get parts is critical, and I would also say you were right back in the days of the tuber if you happened to have a really good dealer before Harley made them all start building these museum set pieces for shops (at which my really good dealer couldn't afford to be stocking a full inventory of spare parts anymore), I would contest the general conclusion that the good old days were "good". They weren't. But you are right that we need to do better. Just putting the whole parts inventory in either Dennis Kirk or Amazon would solve that problem really well forever. | ||
| Court |
>>>>LOL, pictures Court HALO dropping into Bolivia for an owner in need. Totally doable . . .here are some pics from "work" yesterday . . . I love my job.    As for bikes . . . . . the Ducati Scrambler and Triumph Scrambler were calling me until I found a pristine "old" Triumph in Bar Harbor last week. Court P.S. - Some old time Buell owners probably recall some of my "Buell Owner in Need" classics . . . which included showing up at folks' house with a new bike . . as in the case of Dr. Henrik. |
