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Bykergeek
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:02 pm: | 
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Kum By Yah  |
Austinrider
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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While I will agree that for most of us its pointless to argue about 1 or 2 ft pounds or 1 or 2 hp differences between the pipe there is one item that that does matter.
This item is how the performance is delivered. To have a smooth linear graph as opposed to one that dips up and down throughout the rpm range does make a difference.
I am noticing it more and more at the track. Yes, I know, the track is not the street, but Im talking about power delivery here and this is the best example I can think of.
To plan your turns around a dip in the torque curve is different than having a pipe that has a linear progression.
When I come out of turn 10 and into 11 at Texas World Speedway, I want a linear acceleration/torque curve, not one that is going to dip down and then back up as I open the throttle up to get out of the curve.
I also notice it going into the chicane that is turns 13, 14, and 15 at TWS. To come out of 15 and go WOT only to have a lag in the acceleration is a bit disheartening when the fool on the bike you been trying to pass hits the gas and accelerates right on out.
Anyway, I should probably have drank my morning coffee before posting this but I could not resist.
Enjoy what ya got, and ride safe.
See the texas folks that are going to the track on Monday at the track. Im pretty pumped about a Buell Track day. I think its going to be fun. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 01:14 pm: |
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No doubt about it. Power delivery is super important.
Was doing some reading about some of the moto GP bikes. For instance the Kawaski, One magazine test writer said it was either all on (full power) or nothing. Where the Honda, is smooth and even.
also interesting reading other info, on the differance in power delivery between the V twins and the inlines.
as far as all the different pipes, after talking to Kevin and brian, I believe the "Drummer" is one of the top performers, if not the top.
Kevin has done tons of R&D. |
Dyna
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 01:47 pm: |
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Yes i think that i think $350 is pretty steep for a modified stock can. When you can buy several other pipes outright for that price.
I don`t doubt that you initially spent alot of time developing the pipe. But 90% of the parts are provided to you by the owner. And it takes six hours to make one? With all do respect i find that hard to believe.
$350 is what the market will pay. Is it worth it? Hell is anything actually worth the price we pay? If I were to pick up an XB & throw a pipe on it, most likely I would go with the D&D. I like the looks & the sound of it. 100% personal preference tho. The power delivery difference between any of these mufflers is so small in the grand scheme of things that it really doesnt matter.
Kevin did his homework on modifying a stock pipe & Bubba uses his internet connections to market it, nothing wrong with that at all. Some folks will balk at paying the money to rework your stock can & have it returned to you, others dont have any issues at all with it. I say if Brian can sell a shitload of these then go for it. Isnt free enterprise great?
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Jasonblue
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 02:05 pm: |
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Maybe if Bubba took some of the money he was making off this free web site and made the Drummer an official sponsor I wouldn't mind hearing about it so much. Fair is fair. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 03:23 pm: |
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Doesn't Bubba work for Tilley's? A BWB Sponsor? Am I wrong?
edited by hootowl on March 28, 2004 |
Dyna
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 04:57 pm: |
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Doesn't Bubba work for Tilley's? A BWB Sponsor? Am I wrong?
You are correct, but I think Jason is pointing out that the Drummer deal has nothing to do with Tilleys. Its a private venture put forth on their off hrs. The dealer doesnt see any of the profits, so on that aspect he actually does have a point. Personally I could care less tho.
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Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 05:09 pm: |
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Brickcop,
According to the dyno testing I have done, the D&D gave me a solid 10 hp increase through the mid range where I typically ride on the street. This a stock engine, D&D muffler, stock header, K&N filter, and air box mods.
The lag in the power curve that everyone gets so spun up about occurs just above 3000 rpm... lower than I ever run the engine when I'm riding aggressively. Oh, and I like the sound.
If you look at hp/$, the Drummer is a bargain.
Hope this helps,
Keith
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Az28
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 07:49 pm: |
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I am concerned about modifying my stock pipe to become a "Drummer" and then having to take the bike in for warranty work. If I buy a aftermarket pipe, I can replace the stock one when going in for service. Any thoughts?
JR |
Johncr250
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:15 pm: |
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I was worried about dealer warranty service too, if my muffler was Drummerized. So i bought the Jardine for $230.00 and I take it off if i need warranty work.
My dealer sucks, and told me the smallest mod to my bike, and he won`t do any warranty work.
If you have a good dealer i won`t worry about it though. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:18 pm: |
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If what I understand from the law. The shop would only be able to void your warranty, if the problem is a direct cause of something you have changed. Like if your transmission or electrical system goes bad, they can not blame it on a muffler change. |
Az28
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:18 pm: |
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Johncr250..
What can you tell me about the Jardine sound? Is it as loud as an average Harley? What is the tone like? Thanks!
JR |
Noface
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:27 pm: |
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Don, You stole my line!   |
Johncr250
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 12:33 am: |
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Gone60,
Thats what i thought too, but their attitude is just like go call Buell then.
I`m so tired of these fat old lazy HD dealers that think their doing you a favor by selling you a bike. |
Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 12:24 pm: |
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well I see the wekend was productive wasn't it.
to answer one question...yes me and kevin will be a bad web sponsor we are working on the wbsite right now, with the help of jersey guy.
and with craig at the Iowa buell store(DaveS'S)
we will haveit.
I will give you a link and Blake if you want to remove it go ahead I understand. But I am putting this up just so you know that we are working on it.http://www.patmedia.net/haynesfam/index.htm
me and kevin worked a deal with Tilley's so it is with their blessings.
if you think we are getting rich off this, well think what you will. If it dissappeared tomorrow it wouldn't hurt either one of us finacially.
as I always say buy what you like.
edited by buckinfubba on March 29, 2004 |
Sammigs
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 12:13 am: |
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Let me toss in my 1.7 cents here.
I have gone through the stock muffler, the Latus (for about 15 miles...more noise than go) the Buell race muffler (good performance but to quiet)the D&D (slightly more than 4000 miles on that muffler) and now the Drummer.
So I'm going to compare the Drummer to the D&D.
I liked the D&D. It's quality and fit are excellent. It has it's own unique sound.
And that's where the comparison stops.
My opinion is that the Drummer kicks the crap out of the D&D hands down.
The power delivery is smooth. VERY SMOOTH!
I now have the top end back I so desperately missed with the D&D. (it would take forever to get there)
And the power exiting a turn is amazing.
Straight line at 2500 RPM (under 3000) mashing the throttle wide open would create a huge lag with the D&D.
Gone with the Drummer!
Oh and to top it all off... It doesn't sound like a HD anymore.
Now again this only my opinion and I'll know more on the numbers after it's dynoed.
But I gotta say that $350.00 and my pipe, plus smoother power delivery, plus the fact that I ALWAYS promptly receive a return call from Brian = one huge ass kicking in my book.
Knowing what I know now; The Drummer truly is a bargain at $350.00.
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Kds1
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 09:43 am: |
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Sam,
Glad you like it!!! In 1998 I bought every muffler I liked and none would compare to what I thought the engine was capable of...so i started from ther and here we are today....Your words are exactly what I said 6 yrs ago... no comparison when you ran them all!!!! Keep kicking ass...KEVIN |
Buellny
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 03:16 pm: |
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Sammigs,
Comparing the Buell race pipe to the D&D, which seems better in your opinion? Putting sound aside, which performed better?
Thanks for your input!
Chade |
Sammigs
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 04:50 pm: |
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The Buell race can performed better than the D&D.
It's actually a very good muffler, but a little to quiet.
I polished both tips and painted it black.
Hope this helps,
Sam
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Buellny
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:23 pm: |
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"The Buell race can performed better than the D&D."
Well, that's disappointing. I have the Buell race pipe on the bike right now. Next week I'm having the D&D installed. I'll have the dealership do a dyno run before and after to see the difference. |
Opto
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 06:04 am: |
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Well I dunno, the XB12, she's so sweet with the Drummer, I sometimes wonder, but despite all efforts I do find myself riding below 3k rpm in the city occasionally and the extra bottom end of the Drummer is handy there, as it is for climbing the odd steep hill in 1st and 2nd gear, or for getting out of steep gutters 2-up and pulling wheelies from a standing start without revving it much. The top end is fine, I can't see much point in wanting more, I could only use it on the track. I know I've told people I don't ride under 3k, but sometimes it just happens. If I'm half serious it's over 4k all the time. Yes I'm very tempted to buy a Jardine too. But I don't think the Drummer can be beaten as an allrounder practical real-world solution - I like to call it the Doctor.
I've run it over 4 mths and over 3k miles, only improvement I can suggest is an "export model" with the outlet aiming out the RHS so I don't blow cage drivers ears out when overtaking! Are you listening Drummer Men?
edited by opto on April 06, 2004 |
Kds1
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 08:32 am: |
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Opto,
I didn't think about that situation...I guess I'll have to remember to ask in the future....KEVIN |
Skully
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 01:25 pm: |
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Sammigs
The Buell race can performed better than the D&D.
Please qualify that statement.
Keith |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
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I think as far as the pipes go, unless you are maybe in a racing situation, they all perform well. Some do have dips down low, but who here rides below 3000RPM...it almost comes down to what kind of Sound and What sort of Look are you after. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 03:05 pm: |
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D&D beats the race muffler in mid range. Race muffler beats the D&D at the top end. Drummer performs better than D&D down low and up high, but not as good in mid range. Drummer equals race muffler up high and beats it down low/mid-range. Three different flavors, pick the one you like most.
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Sammigs
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 08:24 pm: |
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The D&D's advantage over the other cans in the middle is about a 15 hundred rpm range (very narrow).
This is not an attack, but just a question:
If the Drummer beats the D&D low and high and then beats the race can low/middle and equals its high, wouldn't the Drummer give you a smoother power band?
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M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 01:25 pm: |
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Yes. And that's EXACTLY the reason I'll get one . |
Lpd22
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 09:58 pm: |
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Has anyone heard of or knowing anything about the DG exhaust? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 11:13 pm: |
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Pick the flavor you like most. If the 1,500 rpm range where the D&D excels is where you most often ride, then it may be a good choice. If you want optimum low and top end and a great price, go for the drummer.
And you make 1,500 rpm sound like a meager portion of the powerband. If the usable powerband runs from 3K to 7.5K, then 1,500 rpm represents a full third of the powerband.
Don't know anything about a DG exhaust. |
Sammigs
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 01:06 am: |
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Blake I agree with you. To each his own, meaning whatever you like is what you buy.
But this is a D&D exhaust discussion so I'll continue.
"And you make 1,500 rpm sound like a meager portion of the powerband."
I think it is when you consider how much that can costs, the weight of it, and the exhaust volume. It makes you want to get on the throttle. Well it made ME want to get on it. So I installed a muffler and narrowed my powerband.
So I'll ask everyone this:
If I have 3k to 7.5k of usable powerband, wouldn't the bike be easier to ride (cruising or aggressively) if I could make more power across the board, or in just 1/3 of that range?
I have had the chance to ride my bike with all of these mufflers for many miles. It was easy to feel the difference between the three. I wish more guys had that same advantage.
Please understand that I'm not endorsing hardware here. And maybe the D&D was just the wrong muffler for my type of riding. But how many guys actually ride in a specific range most of the time?
Seems kinda boring and hard to do on a XB.
LP can you point us in the direction of the DG? I don't think I've ever heard of it.
Thanks,
Sam
edited by Sammigs on April 07, 2004 |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 04:29 am: |
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Most riders spend the majority of their time riding in the mid-range. Many riders are averse to taking their bike to red line and so short shift. For that type of rider sacrificing some top end in favor of optimum mid-range power might be attractive. Does that answer your question? |
Sammigs
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 10:18 pm: |
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Maybe your right about most guys spending the majority of their riding time in the midrange.
So I'll bow out of this discussion with this; If anyone here has the opportunity to ride a XB with the Drummer installed, I would highly recommend it.(assuming you have a D&D for comparison)
I think you'll agree that it out performs the D&D regardless of what range you ride in.
edited by Sammigs on April 07, 2004 |
Lpd22
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 11:07 pm: |
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DG currently makes ATV exhaust systems. And thats all I know about them. But the reason I brought up DG is cause my local dealer said that they are now available for the XB series. And I was just curious to see if anyone knows anything about them. |
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