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1_mike
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just for the hell of it, I looked into the diagnosis section of the dash yesterday.
It reports a "front oxygen sensor fault".

Anyone got an idea what happens or doesn't...with this fault ?

On one hand, the engine (seems to) runs fine, on the other hand, I have no idea how long this fault has been reporting.

I guess its time to call in the warranty....................!

Thanks

Mike
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D_adams
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unplug it, plug it back in. Right side, behind the coolant reservoir.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What's the code number?
There's more than 1 fault code for each sensor.

Not likely a connection problem.
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1_mike
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 08:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Dean, will try to get to it this weekend.

Don't recall the code number.

But again, what happens with a sensor failure code and why is the engine running so well ?

Maybe I'll disconnect the rear...see what happens...!?
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D_adams
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's a heated sensor. Could be either a high or low voltage error, won't have an effect on the way it runs if it's for the heater circuit. Mine did it when the bike was new, unplug/plug in seems to have fixed it.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The code you're seeing is likely P0131 or P0132. One is rich, one is lean.
Knowing the code number that was set will give a direction to determine the cause.
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D_adams
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If it's the voltage error, it will probably be p0151.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

P0151 and P0152 are for the rear cylinder.
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1_mike
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Will check the number tonight.

Might be a "little" rich, runs too good to be "normal" EPA lean !
Just a little fuel soot in the tail pipe, the way it should be...

(Message edited by 1_mike on June 10, 2015)
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1_mike
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The code is PD (or PO ?) 131.

Thinking about it, it runs well now, how is it gonna run leaner (fixing the problem), if the "code" produces a richer running engine..?

"I'm so confused...!"

Thanks for the info.

Mike

(Message edited by 1_mike on June 10, 2015)
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Dmhines
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 07:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If code is Rich then PCM will lean the fuel mix. If code is lean then PCM will richen the fuel mix.
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1_mike
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dmhines -

So what you are saying is that...a broken part (sensor) or not...the sensor has no effect and I can remove it with no ill effects..!

Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Mike
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Snacktoast
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

P0131 is related to the front cylinder.
I would check for air leaks on the intake or the front exhaust header at the cylinder head and at the front header/primary muffler joint.
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Dmhines
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry Mike .. that is not what I meant. I was trying to explain how a code indicating the mix is too rich will cause a Lean running engine. If that wasn't your question then nevermine. :-)
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1_mike
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Snack -

Thanks, but no leaks what-so-ever. I'd notice that. I understand the effects of leaking intake or a popping exhaust.
As noted...the engine runs fine, though I have not pulled the front spark plug to see what it looks like..!


Dmhines -

While I don't have full knowledge about how the ECM works, I do know there's a lot of myths going around on the subject.
Not meaning at all to be ugly but I'm not convinced it works that way.
I do know that the system will change rich or lean per many inputs from various sensors...but...

Thanks for your input.

Mike

(Message edited by 1_mike on June 12, 2015)
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Snacktoast
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

1_mike,

Do you have the stock ECM or the Race ECM with tips on the bike?
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Snacktoast
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If code is Rich then PCM will lean the fuel mix. If code is lean then PCM will richen the fuel mix.

That statement is partially true.
The ECM will set a code (P0131, P0132, P0151, P0152) when the mixture has exceeded the set normal operating parameters (too low or too high/too lean or too rich) that are programmed into the ECM in closed loop conditions.
The code may not set if the number spikes rich or lean momentarily. It will only set the code once the condition is met for (x) number of seconds.

There also oxygen sensor bias that is controlled by the ECM which will allow the system to target a set A/F ratio when operating in closed loop. This may vary depending on temperature, IAT, TP input, etc.

(Message edited by snacktoast on June 12, 2015)
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1_mike
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dean was correct...

I removed the front header tube to wrap it this past weekend. Putting it back together, I used some dielectric grease to help keep the corrosion at bey, and snapped the connector back together.

All is well.

And it does make a small difference at throttle "tip-in" (just off idle), it seems to have a little better drive-ability.
Odd thing, everywhere else, it's "not" as good now..!?

I don't understand the dielectric grease.
By design, it's NOT supposed to let electrons flow.
But I've been using it for years and actually seems to help the conductivity..!?
Years ago, there's a high amp draw, four pin plug, on my old Suzuki TLR that corroded on most every TLR. I scrapped off the garbage that I could, soaked it in dielectric grease, and put it back together. A few months later, I took looked into this plug just to...see...
It was "perfectly" clean..?? I only got it about 3/4 clean with my scraping and Scotchbrite polishing. But now it's completely clean..what the hell ?
I guess the heat from the high amp draw and the hot grease boiled everything clean.

Anyway, oxygen sensor done and working...good call Dean.

Mike
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't understand the dielectric grease.
By design, it's NOT supposed to let electrons flow.


I think what it does is keep moisture and therefore corrosion out of the joint. The actual electrical connection is still made by metal-to-metal contact where the grease is scraped off. The grease keeps moisture from getting to the metal where corrosion can start making for really lousy conductivity.

Here's what the Fount of All Knowledge (google) turned up:

http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

(Message edited by Hughlysses on June 29, 2015)
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Snacktoast
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think what it does is keep moisture and therefore corrosion out of the joint.

Correct, this is the purpose of dielectric grease.
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1_mike
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But it's a "dielectric"...a nonconductor of electricity.

If it's put on a male (or female) component, that becomes a barrier to electron flow.

So it appears that as long as there is "enough..." amperage to power thru the grease, that's fine.
But how low a power level can be used to where the grease doesn't let the power thru ? If you put a grease on a surface, unless it's cleaned off with a solvent, "some" will always remain.

Oh well...who cares, it works and that's what counts..!

Mike
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Roaldnelson
Posted on Friday, July 03, 2015 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting topic... Coincidentally, a few years ago I had a similar conversation with an Aerospace Electrical Engineer that was on a team I was leading. After several days he was able to convince me that in a standard "dagger connector" the only place where current is guaranteed to flow is where the female connector side is "rolled" for lack of a better term. It is supposed to actually cut into the dagger a tiny bit to ensure a dependable point of contact. as he put it, the flat side is just there to give the rolled side something to bite against. They size the connector based on this premise. Unless he's completely wrong (he is a very talented, very anal engineer) which I doubt, then the rolled side will easily cut through the grease to make contact with the dagger.
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