| Author | Message | ||
     Phelan |
So my Uly is parked to put a few things on. -Mosfer Voltage Regulator from Rick's Motorsports, since the stock one quit -New cam seal, since I forgot to change it while I had the motor apart for the 1250 build -New lifters, since I wanted to change them when I built the motor, but was short on cash, and -Shorter pushrods, so I can deck the heads for more compression. I had been planning all but the VR change for a few weeks now but the VR quitting expedited it. While moving the bike around I hear a bad grinding noise, and look to find my rear pads are completely gone. So I have new pads on order and will eventually replace the rotor as well (it's not bad right now though actually). Now I've been pulling stuff off getting ready to rotate the motor, but I decided to pull the belt off first so it doesn't get bound as much as far as I rotate the motor. I pulled the rear wheel out to do this, and decided to clean it up as it had tons of brake dust on it. While I have it out, I might as well repack the bearings, as they feel very stiff. Once the dust covers are off, I notice the ball spacer in the brake side bearing is all broken up. Looks like I'll be replacing that bearing now as well. Ever have one or two things turn into ten like this? I'm sure there will be other things that pop up on this rebuild as well. (Message edited by phelan on June 12, 2015) | ||
| Tootal |
Ever have one or two things turn into ten like this? All the fricken time!!  Hence the terminology, "Opening a can of worms" Which could also mean, my wallet just got lighter!  | ||
| Phelan |
Yep. Glad I found this though. I've been wondering if I had some drag somewhere, I my bike hasn't felt like the 100+ RWHP lump it did once I had it broken in. Finding the broken bearing explains the click I was hearing at random as well. I found a 10 pack of the 6206-2RS double seal bearings (2010 3 bearing wheel) for $25. I think I'll just replace them all while I'm at it  . | ||
| Arry |
That's the right attitude. Better to find and fix it, then to find it when you're on the road. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I used the Melling autozone lifters on my 2007, and they look like a pretty good match. A TON cheaper than the HD units, and they probably rolled off the same assembly line. I posted about it... I reused a couple of the parts from the original lifters (easy to take apart). Doubt that was necessary either, but it makes them pretty much identical. | ||
| Phelan |
I got S&S lifters, they are stock style. Not too expensive, $120 I think. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The mellings were like $48 I think... | ||
| Ourdee |
May I suggest? While the rear wheel is out of the swing arm. If the rear is supported well enough, check the swing arm bearings by trying to move the swing arm side to side. Just to make sure there's not a worm hiding there. Ross, While you have me thinking and if you don't mind saying, how much did you wind up sinking into the 1250 build? | ||
| Phelan |
Ourdee, I get parts at cost and do my own machine work and labor, so it's a lot less than most. But that's as far as I can comment on the subject. For most, a similar build would be around $2000 if my guesstimates are correct. I'm planning to be around 105+ RWHP with the stock exhaust once this iteration is complete. Sometime in the future I'll put Cil's race muffler on the bike and compare dyno results. | ||
| Phelan |
BTW thanks for the heads up on the swingarm bearings. I already put the wheel back in place to rotate the motor while I'm waiting for the bearings to come in, and I already have the motor rotated and the top end off. But when I put it all back together and pull the rear wheel to change the bearings, I'll check for play in the bearings. Hopefully there isn't any lol. | ||
| Ourdee |
Most likely they are good. But a check while you are there gives a little peace of mind . | ||
| Phelan |
Understood and agreed  . | ||
| Phelan |
So here's a list of things I'm changing this time around. -front and rear brake pads -rear wheel bearings -cam seal (done) -lifters -shorter pushrods -paint cam cover black (done) -tweak porting a bit -1.900" intake valves -valve seals and valve job -deck heads -.030" -exhaust gaskets -paint front pulley -Free Spirits pulley cover -change neutral sensor I'm sure I'm missing something too. As you can see the creep is strong with this one..  | ||
| Sagehawk |
Phelan : curious as to compression ratio before your 1250 kit, heads werent decked then at all right? Now, where does your squish stand at. With deckings heads .030, what will that do to your chamber volume , and compression ratio and will you keep the same squish band value? Curious. | ||
| Phelan |
The heads weren't decked before the 1250 kit, correct, though XB heads are .020" shorter than earlier XL heads. I'm decking them for more compression to raise my dynamic compression, as it's lower than ideal due to sinking the valves and changing cams at the last minute. Between sinking the intake valve a little more, the bigger dish in the intake valves, and decking the heads more, I should be able to get the compression closer to where it would be had I used 15* pistons, which I would have used had I planned on changing cams when I bought the 1250 kit. TBH I haven't measured the compression. I just know its less than I should have for the changes I made because of the pistons used. Stock compression is 9.8:1 btw, and the kit when matched with stock chambers and cams is supposed to he 10.5:1. I'm probably around 10:1 right now. | ||
| Tootal |
The stock cams closed the intakes pretty late and I'm guessing later than the cams you put in. Do you know the specs on both sets of cams? Just curious to see the relationship of the intake closing and the compression ratio. Did you happen to check your CCP before tearing it back down? | ||
| Phelan |
There are only two places that have aftermarket XB cams (NRHS and Redshift), and all the aftermarket grinds have more duration than the stock cams. The stock cams have the same grind as SE .551 cams, and 249* duration. The CAT3 cams that I am using have 256* duration, slightly less lift, and different timing. Cam Intake - Open/Close - Duration - Lift - TDC Lift Exhaust - Open/Close - Duration - Lift - TDC Lift Screamin' Eagle: SE-551 / SE-E I - 25/44 - 249 - .551 - .192 E - 59/10 - 249 - .551 - .122 NRHS Cat 3 cams I - 26/50 - 256 - .540 - .192 E - 52/24 - 256 - .540 - .205 I didn't check the CCP, to be honest I'm more of a wrencher and just trying to pound this out in a week during my spare time, as I have a lot of other irons in the fire. This is just my favorite ATM . | ||
| Phelan |
Eventually, I plan to try some CAT4s, though that will be a while later. I will have to make my own timing marks for them though as we don't have them for XBs. I'll have to use XL variants. I'll have to change springs at that time as well. NRHS Cat 4 cams I - 22/58 - 260 - .590 - .197 E - 59/21 - 260 - .590 - .186 | ||
| Tootal |
Thanks for the specs. A lot of folks talk about lift and duration but length of stroke, degree of intake closing and compression all add up to your CCP and where you start to make power. The Cat4 cams wouldn't make any real power till redline! That would be a race only cam IMHO. When you're done check your CCP. Hopefully it's under 190 if you can get real gas. 180 with ethenol. HP and Torque numbers are great for bench racing but it's hard to beat a nice flat torque curve for rideability. | ||
| Phelan |
We've used lots of CAT4s in Sportsters and Tubers, they do make power at redline but its not terrible down low still. I ride more 5000-7000 than I should admit, tbh  . The bike has plenty of power down low to move me down the road regardless of mods; I'd rather change the build to make the most power and change my riding rev range to utilize it when I want it. And this is more like an R&D project for me. I likely won't switch cams till I'm ready to put an 88" kit on it though. Once I have satisfactory numbers, I'll make that change (and an '08-up crank while the cases are split). | ||
| Phelan |
Keep in mind, even decking the heads .030", I'm also sinking the valves another .015-.020" with a medium unshroud, so the chamber volume change isn't huge. | ||
| Phelan |
This project should have been done by now.. I measured the heads at 64 cc after decking them 30 thou, so they must have been at least that big before. So I decked them another .020", making -.080" total, more than I wanted, just to get them to 62cc. Ideal chamber size for these pistons and cams is 60cc, so too much compression won't be an issue. Considering my chambers were 4cc too big before and I still made over 100 RWHP, I'm not too worried about it. I got the bike all together and went for a shakedown run- and almost shook myself to death. And heard a bad tick. So, in full freak-out mode, I pulled the heads (no trivial task on an XB obviously), thinking it was valve to piston contact. Nope. After much deduction, it turned out to be the Free Spirits pulley cover! The Uly footpeg mounts are further forward and down than others, and the bottom corner of the 3/8" thick billet cover was butted against the frame, tapping it when the motor was running, also creating the excessive vibration. So I wasted 4 hours rotating the motor and pulling the heads, plus the time it will take to put it all back together. So hopefully tomorrow I'll have it back together again to report back. I'm gonna shave a good 3/8" off the corner of the pulley cover so I can still use I without the interference. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
you should be the fastest XB mechanic in history by now :-) | ||
| Phelan |
Getting there Ray! LOL I certainly have no issues getting the motor rotated and the top end off stat. I took my time getting it all back together and still got it done in no time. It helps having every tool I need right by the bike. I probably could have used a lift on the other side of the shop without issue, but I'm used to working on this on my side. Anyway, got the bike back together, shaved the corner of the billet pulley cover, and took it out for a shake-down. It RIPS! Needs a TPS reset (which I'm doing in a few minutes) and some mapping work, but I rode it home today and it runs excellent. I can't wait to get it on the dyno when Dan gets back in town. | ||
| Phelan |
Add stator to the list. Changing it tomorrow as the bike still isn't charging enough. It will stay charging good until the fan or headlight comes on - my low beam is out and I'm not replacing it until the charging system is functioning correctly as H7s are expensive to replace every other day. I finally was able to find a bearing tool to pull 2 of the 3 bearings out, but the one giving me trouble is the bad one. Hopefully tomorrow I can get it pulled now that the spacer is out of the way. Been playing with fueling and timing a little but not a lot I can do in that regard until Dan gets back and we can put it on the dyno. | ||
| Phelan |
Got the wheel bearings changed, resurfaced the brake rotors, changed the front and rear brake pads, and even painted my wheels. We dyno'd the bike yesterday; it got to 100 RWHP before the clutch would slip like crazy, so I got and installed an Energy One clutch pack and will re-dyno the bike next week. It should reach 105 easily, and hopefully 110 once I get a different exhaust. Oh, and I put my short opaque windshield back on. Looks better and actually has less buffeting.   | ||
| Falloutnl |
What did you do to get the bike to make that much power? (With the standard exhaust no less.) /edit: ah, the 1250 kit. Yeah that works nicely on my X1 as well. Did you change the mapping on your Uly though? And that works out even with the standard exhaust? (Message edited by falloutnl on July 07, 2015) | ||
| Phelan |
NRHS 1250 kit with 10* angled dome pistons, ported heads with Kibblewhite 1.900" intake and Ferrea 1.610" valves, CAT3 cams, S&S lifters, Hurricane pushrods, heavily ported manifold, K&N with open air box mod, and most recently an Energy One clutch pack. The different brand valves and 10* instead of 15* pistons are both happenstance from having two different build iterations, reusing most of what I had already in the second iteration. I started with the Race Map, tweaked it a little, had Jim Higgins tweak it, and then tweaked it a little more once I got it back together this time around. Keep in mind I work at NRHS, So this sort of thing isn't unusual, and I have the advantage of having a dyno to use with ECMspy to get AFR and tune it in. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Ah gotcha, yeah that's a nice job perk to have! I'm asking cause that Uly I bought recently feels like it is bog standard in pretty much every way when it comes to the engine/intake/mapping. If possible I would like the exhaust to remain standard but encourage in the engine the buttery smooth delivery that I get from my M2. Just wondering if it's possible / good for the bike to try that without altering the exhaust. | ||
| Phelan |
It can definitely be done. Only reason I'm planning to change the exhaust is because I'm obsessed with breaking 110. Otherwise, the bike runs amazing and makes a lot more midrange torque with the stock exhaust. How many miles are on your Uly? Mine had 68,000 when I got it, and the top end was noticeably worn. The bike dyno'd at 76 RWHP before the rebuild, and they are supposed to be 80-85 for 04-07 XBs and 86-90 for 08-10 models. Some things I added, like the cams, are not necessary to get a good boost in performance, especially if it's a higher mileage bike. Stage II light headwork, ported manifold, and 10* pistion 1250 kit alone will give you 10-15 RWHP boost over stock, but will also give you the main benefit of refreshed ring seal, valve seal, and intake seal, which are big factors in maintaining power over mileage. And with that amount of work, the race map will drop in and run fine. You can do better with tuning, but it runs very good. (Message edited by phelan on July 07, 2015) |
