| Author | Message | ||
     Johnshore |
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/polaris-might-ve ry-well-buy-erik-buell-racing-95718.html | ||
| Nono443 |
Seeing that it came from Auto Evolution, I don't believe a thing in the article. | ||
| Mog |
Hate to say this but I think it is a Harley-Davidson deal that saves the EBR (Buell) MC Brand. I feel both company administrations have learned a most valuable set of lessons.  And a 600+cc single cylinder air-cooled to boot. | ||
| Sprintst |
I've heard a figure of $20m to rescue EBR I've also heard the company was valued at $50m before the bankruptcy Either amount could probably be covered if the city were to issue bonds. Heck, Knoxville is going to float $50m in bonds to build 2 schools | ||
| Johnshore |
I mentioned this on the quick board. Gov. Walker of Wisconsin is running for president. He was in NH and MA raising cash. I am certain more than of a few of the people he will talk to think of 20 mil as pocket change. I think we should bug him. Just a bit. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I've heard a figure of $20m to rescue EBR The article also throws out the $20M figure. Articles on the receivership say EBR owes $20M to creditors, so I'd guess that's where the figure came from. Whether that's a realistic price or not, I have no idea. I think the receiver (the lawyer who's been assigned to look over the receivership) has the ultimate say as far as the selling price. | ||
| Sprintst |
We also heard that Hero owes EBR $20m for engineering work........ interesting if both numbers were true | ||
| Jscott |
http://www.victorymotorcycles.com/en-us/isle-of-ma n | ||
| Mog |
There is quite a tangle going on in India. Somehow HD and EBR have been on the same end of a very smelly stick being wielded by no less than two Indian firms RE and Hero and added to that mix Benelli (DSK/QJ) plus others. From an India article "Both the Street 500 and 750 are the only Harley Davidson bikes that are completely built in India. The company has a manufacturing facility at Bawal, Haryana. This facility not only assembles bikes but also builds the Street line up of affordable cruisers from scratch." All of this seems disconnected until one examines the current state of HD, and of course EBR, as the way they appear to be 'less successful' in a ten million bike per year market. That the HOG sold out Buell for a 125 million dollar write off is the stuff of nightmares. However, that was a puke move by desperate people (self inflicted wound) taking an overt 'bailout' on the little guy. IT was a small group of people and not the tables, bricks, mortar and machinery therein. EBR is out of business and HOG stock has descended from about $75 to about $57 per share and may not be pleasing to Buffett Berkshire. The head of EBR has not changed but at HOG the old COO is now in charge. Totally different than the crew that caused Buell to be axed with an emergent winner of an American superbike. Still (yes there are some bad HD dealers) HD has a stellar, albeit expensive, service network. Erik has vast experience in the sport and superbike realm. I would welcome a meeting of the minds and love to see the Thuggees of India that stiffed EBR, get the pointy end of that smelly stick in their collective eye.  | ||
| Rex |
Yep | ||
| Bikerrides |
HD or Polaris would suit me as long as Buell is saved! It would be really cool for all of us that ride the original Buells, if HD were to get Buell back and begin to make new parts available for our bikes! Probably a minuscule chance of the latter happening, but I can dream! | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Doubtful that they'll fire up production on bikes from the mid-late 90s...its been 20 years man. | ||
| Mrsuperbuckets |
Imagine if HD bailed out EBR, and used them as a research department. If Buell could make 100hp from a sportster motor, imagine what they could do with those massive 110" motors. And HD defenintaly has the rescources. | ||
| Usmoto |
I hope EBR/Buell/??next name, never has anything to do with HD ever again. Never have liked the company and the whole attitude/image bull%$#. Even though I wouldn't own a HD bike, the V Rod is the best one they've ever made. Anything else is pure junk. I think a Polaris partnership would be advantageous and put EBR/Buell back on the map like it should be and provide a great future. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Usmoto - pure junk? How much time have you spent with the bikes? also, Didnt Buell have a certain 'attitude' about them too? Wasnt there an ad about not waving to other bikers? You know, EBR has that great slogan, "Fiercely Independent".... well maybe they shouldnt get too cozy with another big moto business. Im still waiting on everything to come out, what REALLY went down etc Im looking forward to seeing what happens with EBR, if it comes back to life or just gone for good. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That add, and that campaign, was pure harleywood. Don't blame Buell for that. But your point stands about Harleys. Say what you want about the attitudes of a lot of their owners, and say what you want about bang for the buck... but for their niche, which is a very reasonable for US riders on US roads, most Harley Davidson motorcycles are excellent motorcycles. Even from a performance standpoint, if you are riding with reasonable margins for both safety and following the law, a decent Harley will perform quite well. You have to go to a track or closed course to exceed the performance envelope of a good rider on many Harley Davidson models. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Lol...Harleys are rated #1 for catastrophic failures, BMW #2..... | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Figor, I don't question your stat source for catastrophic failures. There are a number of measures where other manufacturers exceed HD products, and not always by just a slim margin. Might I suggest there is one stat people keep forgetting when it comes to the motor company? Customer loyalty: Harley owners regardless of the model, mechanical problems, or dealer issues, routinely want another. Whether their customer loyalty comes from an excellently designed, quality valued product, or a clever marketing department selling HOG Kool-Aid, or somewhere in between is irrelevant. It is the repeat customer, and brand loyalty that make a company successful in the long term. (That, and more positive than negative cash flow over the FY quarters) Perrier, in the end, is just well marketed water. Grumble if you wish, but people still buy it. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Yeah, lets not blame Buell at all for any Buell advertisements... | ||
| Sprintst |
Harley doesn't want 100 hp motors, or they would just use the Buell engines they have the legal rights to now In a dealership, I saw a $8,000 kit to make 100 hp in a Harley. I thought "why doesn't HD just use the buell version?" then I realized, because they can sell $8,000 kits The average owner is probably plenty happy with the 5X~ish hp that is stock, the rest will pony up big bucks for more | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Its the big twin syndrome. Most Harley riders wont ride a sportster based motorcycle. They have to have a big twin. It plays right in to bigger is better blah blah blah. I'm speaking from experience. I bought a sportster when I was a kid. Took some ribbing but I liked the bike. I had to have the big twin. I finally got one and i have to admit its like stepping out of a Chevy chevette and climbing in a Cadillac cts. Then I wanted more horsepower hot if that giant engine and I managed to the it to where a KZ900 couldnt shake me. I had the pegs so ground down from dragging them through corners I had to replace them regularly. Anyway, its all about having a big twin engine. To some people riding a sporty based bike is akin to riding rice. | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Funny how perception changes. Some of us are old enough to remember when a Sportster held the record as the fastest production motorcycle at Bonneville. At the same time, "big twins" (although nobody called them that at the time) were considered to be "old men's bikes". If you were at all performance oriented, you rode a Sportster. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Interesting, that must have been in the late 50's. It funny how trends tend to twist around in circles. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ha! Not quite that long ago. More like mid-to-late 1960's when I was first taking notice of motorcycles as a kid.  I imagine Harley had a hand in this change in perception because they figured they could make more money selling Big Twins than Sportsters. | ||
| Dennis_c |
HUGHLYSSES you are 100% right the sportster was the fasts of the HD. Back then it was the XLCH 1200 but they couldn't out run my 650 Triumph riding double they could. | ||
| 46champ |
Back then the price differential was not as big. When I bought my new 1972 Sportster I paid $2150. I don't remember the exact price but a 72 Superglide was under $2500. I don't think it was till the first XLX that they started using the Sportster as a loss leader. | ||
| Mog |
I am beginning to have my doubts about an HD/EBR reset. FRom a very good 3 part Cycle World article with new CEO Matt Levatich (an engineer) the HD direction has no room for any type of Buell type product. CW: What did you learn as Managing Director of MV Agusta? ML: Number 1: It’s very difficult to make money at that volume. We learned it with Buell. We learned it with MV. Product development is expensive, whatever product you’re doing, whatever brand it’s got. It’s a bit more for Harley, in a sense that we tool up for higher volumes. But the actual testing and development and engineering requirements for a brand-new MV Agusta aren’t all that different from a brand-new Harley. And it’s hard to make money at that volume. That’s what MV has struggled with since it became no Cagiva, no Ducati, just MV. And I think they’re still struggling. That was the challenge with Buell. I suspect it’s the challenge with every company that’s trying to get by on 15,000 to 20,000 motorcycles a year. It’s the profit challenge. That aside, the more exciting thing I learned at MV is that our industry is still filled with people who love what they do. So it had much the feeling that Harley has, of people who love what they do. This is a business. At the end of the day, people don’t really need a motorcycle, they want one. And they want it because of an emotional, passionate desire. And in the whole industry, at Harley and MV and Buell, that passion exists in the companies. CW: What one thing do you want to tell the Harley-Davidson customer as the company’s new boss? ML: Thank you. Thanks for your trust, your loyalty, your passion for Harley. We’re working hard to continue to earn it. Learn more: » Matt Levatich, Harley-Davidson President & CEO, INTERVIEW Part 1 » Matt Levatich, Harley-Davidson President & CEO, INTERVIEW Part 2 CW ARTICLE http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/05/05/cycle-world-i nterview-matt-levatich-harley-davidson-president-a nd-ceo-part-3/ I feel his Customer oriented focus is fine for last year but the the stock market says different. It is not just the strong dollar that is causing the fall in stock price, it is the concept that 'big Vs will always be there'. I am sure the Dodo bird felt the same way. There is a flaw in that bigV nostalgia (though it has worked for over 112 years) that a lightweight 'rip-snot-exceleration' from your face Buell type couldn't fix. I feel that Buell did begin to show a profit and that may have been a problem for Wandell and others in HD. A Buell type MC is a P51 Mustang in a field of  business prop airplanes. It simply turns your heart to massively pumping blood. Yep, I can dream though. | ||
| Usmoto |
I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my HD statement. We all love our bikes no matter who makes them so for that I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm very much in favor of EBR getting back in the bike game, just not with HD. | ||
| Mog |
Victory Unveils Project 156 Pikes Peak Racer (Polaris). Is this the level of current development from Polaris that should stand me in awe of their technological superiority? If they were to pick up Erik's Enterprise, I would be suspect of how much water would be added to the wine. No matter who picks to dance with Erik, they had best be able to let him lead. A meeting of the minds is a big plus but the bottom line is can the new owner muster the guts to sit in the back seat while Erik makes the bike work? That is the 50 million dollar question, 20 million for the debt payoff and 30 million to get it on the track for at least two years while rebuilding EBR 1190RX etc.  | ||
| Rodrob |
It would take a lot more than $50 million IMHO. |
