| Author | Message | ||
     Dave |
that is the question— Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer missing the grins of outrageous 1190SX motorcycling Fortune, when one has others, Or to severe my relationship with many close Benjamins in favor of an unknown Sea of troubles... When is the price the right price for a bike with no warranty? What did 1125s go for in 2010? Is support and parts a crap shoot? Logically, what sense does it make to consider buying an EBR 1190? I think I've gone mad/crazy. Emotionally I'm all in. The Ragged Edge film only reinforced my belief in Erik and team. Realistically... rationally... DAve | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, the 1190's are still all the bike they ever were, and that's a hell of a bike. I guess you could think about it sort of like buying a low-mileage (actually no mileage) used bike. In most cases, you wouldn't have a warranty with that either, so in my mind, the lack of warranty isn't THAT big of a deal. Odds are you'll have absolutely NO dealer support, but if you've been a Buell owner for any length of time, you're used to not having much dealer support. Still, there's a significant difference in "not much" dealer support and NO dealer support. Parts seems like the biggest question mark. Much like with Buells, normal wear items shouldn't be a problem: filters, bearings, suspension parts, batteries, chain, etc. are all off-the-shelf items reasonably common to other motorcycles. Brake pads are reported to be common to the 1125's. Rear sprocket is a common item; front may be more difficult but I'd think someone could figure out a replacement pretty easily. A sprocket's not that hard to make with modern CNC equipment. Assuming no EBR revival, plastics will eventually be unobtanium, but short of complete destruction, they can be repaired. The biggest questions to me are engine parts and electronics. I'm guessing most if not all gaskets are common to the 1125, so that's good. Hopefully valve shims are the same, which were the same as the V-Rod IIRC, so that's another part which should be easy to obtain. That pretty much leaves electronics. In another thread, it was established that the actual physical ECM is the same as the unit used on 1125's. Obviously the programming is very different, but I'd guess someone out there can figure out how to copy the OEM program from a good 1190 ECM to a good 1125 ECM and make that work. The gauge cluster and headlights are definitely EBR-only items, but surely if those fail they can be repaired by hand or replaced with more-common components. Bottom line, it seems reasonable that you could keep an 1190 running for at least a few years as long as you don't grenade the engine or get in a bad crash. If the price is right, buying one doesn't seem crazy to me. (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 08, 2015) | ||
| Court |
Id not worry too much too soon. There's a bright star in that there are parts produced for thousands of bikes. Let this play out ..... (Message edited by Court on May 08, 2015) | ||
| Crusty |
Let this play out .....  | ||
| Phelan |
Like Court said, even if the company doesn't come back, there is still quite a bit of stock in parts that will eventually make it through the pipeline and become available to owners through various resellers. Parts Unlimited and Drag Specialties have a ton of EBR parts, though there's no telling which they have and which they don't have. (Message edited by Phelan on May 08, 2015) | ||
| Dave |
Good points Hugh. Letting it play out.... Option 1. EBR goes away. Prices continue to fall, inventory slowly dries up. I kick myself in the ass for not getting one. Option 2. EBR is in pause & somehow recovers. I wait, prices recover & kick myself in the ass for not getting one. Option 3. One helluva bike and places are discounting them. I make more room by selling a Ulysses and attempt to justify to the wife why I need another Buell. Anyone else pull the trigger since the announcement? DAve | ||
| Court |
The quantity and composition of available parts is a sum certain. How about 8,000 bike kits at $5,000 each and we call it good. 😄 Hey .... It's an idea. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I might be in for that money, provided my bank would cut a loan for a bike with "batteries not included. Some assembly required" | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Somebody got one. I had a deal in the works for a Galactic black rx. $10000 out the door but it got snatched up out from under me. Word of advice...dont hesitate. | ||
| Hughlysses |
BTW- the "dealers" page at erikbuellracing.com is working in case you're trying to find one: https://www.erikbuellracing.com/find-your-dealer/ | ||
| Two_seasons |
Court said... "How about 8,000 bike kits at $5,000 each and we call it good." You must be smoking something Court! No business, TODAY, runs with that kind of inventory.  | ||
| Oddball |
Dealer list page has been working all the time. Just had to have recorded a direct link. | ||
| Hughlysses |
You must be smoking something Court! Maybe Court is suggesting a way EBR could go forward. Surely EBR has long-term contracts in place with various suppliers. They may not have parts for 8000 motorcycles on hand, but they may have long-term agreements with suppliers to produce enough parts for 8000 future motorcycles. What if the next rendition of EBR didn't produce complete motorcycles but sold motorcycle kits? That's an interesting business concept. (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 09, 2015) | ||
| Two_seasons |
To go further on Court's earlier musings, who among us could take a pile of disparate parts, unkitted, make that pile into a superbike motorcycle, torquing all of it to exacting specs. Then, who would bear the liability of that pile of parts, now built by us, when it potentially injures us or someone else. Hugh, That would suggest that Erik still controls the vendor agreements. If EBR is in receivership, that means Erik has no claim to those agreements. With one caveat, EB had formed a separate company where that company controlled and paid for the logistics to supply the EBR assembly line. Vendor contracts specifically spell out terms between company A, the mfr, and company B, the supplier. There would not be any avenue for an individual within that company to divert those future parts releases to his or her garage, for resell. Whomever will get a crack at those specific vendor agreements will be the new owners of EBR! Let me be clear here. I wish Erik and EBR would have stuck to the basics and built a company based on what their demo's told them when surveying the current Buell/EBR enthusiast. Most of us don't want a bike that can do 100mph in first gear. Most of us don't want a bike that needs servicing every 6,000 miles. Most of us wanted EBR engineering to make a mid-size bike that sizzled! Take a look at 2008 total sales at BMC. Then break it down by models. You'll see most people wanted the XB platform over the Rotax platform. I think Erik was out to prove to the motorcycling world that he and his engineering elves could do it, build a world-class racing motorcycle, without the apron strings of another company. That is exactly what the 1190RS was supposed to be. And that is why only 100 of them were ever built. They needed 100 manufactured RS's to qualify so he and the team could go racing. I think the best marketing that Buell ever did was "OWN THE CORNERS"  | ||
| Sprintst |
At least we don't have Harley throwing parts in the trash this time As far as existing contracts with UNPAID vendors, I'm not sure how much good will exists there, and the contract validity is up in the air with the bankruptcy (Message edited by sprintst on May 09, 2015) | ||
| Court |
Look .... If you are an unpaid vendor and you have a choice: 1). Sell front brake air duct for $0.30 on the dollar for ____________. 2. Toss in bin. Which would you do? My thoughts are but idle ramblings and brainstorming .... But it's the same process that brought you things like the S1, White Lightning and Ulysses. Follow the light ...... Seek good options. Erik Buell may have been double crossed and his business kicked across the floor .... He did not get his brains knocked out ...... Suddenly forfeiting 4O years of experience and knowledge. He's also got some very smart men, and at least one women, behind him that no ones going to outsmart. Think big. Play to win. | ||
| Phelan |
Two Seasons, EBR wouldn't do that. This is the bike Erik wanted all along, and at 65, he wasn't going to wait around anymore. The whole base of the motorcycle side was to build the bike he wanted to build all along- to compete with the best. And that's exactly what he did. I don't think we've seen the last of EB, but I am glad he was able to show what he is capable of. So many naysayers over the years, it's nice to build a 185 HP sport bike to prove them wrong. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Amen brother! | ||
| Phelan |
Another thing to consider- they also probably led with the superbikes because it was the cheapest option for them to start with. They already had most of the R&D from the 1125/Barracuda and much of the tooling from Rotax, likely bought at pennies on the dollar. In this case, starting over was not at all starting from scratch. | ||
| Dave |
Shark Cycle in CT dropped to $9999 (no destination fee) I understand they sold 3 since Thursday. 2 1190RX left. DAve | ||
| Oddball |
Looks like the market value is being found. I've watched bikes listed and re-listed on ebay because they barely reached close to that price and i know the dealer wanted another 20%. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Food for thought - EBR kit bike...no brainer for me, sign me up!! "All that wrenching, torque specs, etc." This is what made me appreciate my 1125CR. I understand we're just thinking out loud here but I'd get the $$ in a heart beat. Maybe a sportbike/ super naked kit could be the next big thing, never rule out anything. | ||
| Ljm |
So, just wondering here: at these prices, how long will it be until some entrepreneur decides that it is a good idea to pick up a bunch at firesale prices and resell them? | ||
| Two_seasons |
Biggest issue with any existing, for LEGAL sale, 1190rx/sx will be THERE IS NO WARRANTY on these bikes. | ||
| Ezblast |
Buy it, I never regretted my 1125CR, I'm just as sure you would not regret this bike either. The EBR is a quality riding tool, and the prices right now are awesome! EZ | ||
| Oddball |
Ljm, I've wondered the same thing. I'm not sure those opportunists would find much ability to turn them for significant quick profits here but you never know. They could also end up as a second generation of Ronins. | ||
| Phelan |
Ronin has already thought of that, but I think they would want slightly cheaper prices and all the bikes in one place. | ||
| Sprintst |
I wouldn't care too much about no warranty. Sure, a blown engine would be very bad, but if the bike is discounted and I can GET parts, I'd take that risk To ME, the biggest risk is parts availability. This alone could make the bike almost uninsurable, and a minor break down could make it a wall piece. | ||
| Froggy |
Honestly I had the same thought process, so I figure if you get a bike for $10k, and as long as it doesn't need $8k in work you come out ahead. Parts seem to be available, with hints that there more parts available than bikes. | ||
| Dave |
So with a recent price drop, I negotiated a bit more and dropped a deposit on an 1190SX wearing Laguna Blue. I figured for the discounted price, it's a lot of motorcycle for the $ and I've always wrenched on them myself after recurring bad experiences at dealerships. They're installing the Reduced Effort Clutch Kit as well n/c. DAve (Message edited by DAve on May 12, 2015) | ||
| Court |
That is cool !! | ||
| 1_mike |
Dave - Be sure to ask for the original clutch springs. According to Adam at EBR, while they do lighten the pull effort, they also reduce the pressure plate pressure..! So much canyon carving or dyno runs could end up causing new clutch discs to be purchased. I did not have this done, just get used to it, not difficult..! Mike | ||
| Dave |
Thanks for the tip Mike DAve | ||
| Ourdee |
Here is one: http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/mcd/5021699044.htm l | ||
| Oddball |
Phelan, Well your their local dealer so they probably tried to co-ordinate/buy thru you. If that kit idea ever happens they'd snatch them up. | ||
| Classax |
Any body who has gotten a chance to ride one of these bikes beyond the limits of a safety/legally capped demo ride will tell you these bikes are amazing off the the show room floor! Its unfortunate that by the time they arrived the press was already salivating for the new 2015's of which the crown prince of sportbikes the 2015 R1 produces numbers like this vs the EBR on the same dyno by the same tech  The EBR gives UP nothing in power until the R1 is at 11.5k where Admiral Ackbar revs on 3.5K rpm to make 7 extra hp all while making at least 10lb-ft less torque at its peak. The EBR is smaller more compact machine in all but bar width, turns tighter yet wheelies less on the gas. It gives up 5lbs of weight (which a denoid and race tips, and passenger peg delete are good for 11lbs, you could drop another 10lbs with a cat delete exhaust from that). True the R1 has the world of electronics but don't try to sell me it handles and accelerates SOOO much better, and its the pinnacle of two wheeled machines all the moto rags are making it out to be because the numbers say that simply just isn't so. | ||
| Ourdee |
Here is cheaper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-EBR-1190RX/151 675084746?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms =aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D2 0131017132637%26meid%3De3015b7a7aa44a9784e81463247 72560%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3D pp%26sd%3D151675084746 | ||
| Dave |
MCC in Villa Park IL. $10999. http://www.teammcc.com/default.asp?page=xmbNewInve ntory&sz=10&filter=&order=&year=&manuf=Erik+Buell+ Racing&bodytype=&bodysubtype= | ||
| Two_seasons |
Notice the mileage? | ||
| White79bu |
I have been looking for awhile myself but insurance prices are stupid. I have a clean record great credit and I've been quoted $1200-$1700 a year. That is stupid. I really want a graphite 1190rx but I'm not paying that for insurance. My 1125r was like $50 a month. | ||
| Phelan |
$50/mo is $600/yr... Double the insurance for a bike double the value.. Seems about right to me. | ||
| White79bu |
Not when others are paying no where near that. Plus they gave me a quote for an ABS 13 leftover zx10r that was $350 a year cheaper | ||
| Dmhines |
Try Progressive. Go through agent not website. I'm paying $600 for 1190rx and monster 1100 both with full coverage. | ||
| Dave |
Bought #130 Laguna Blue #130. WTF. Good price and nice ride. DAve | ||
| Zac4mac |
My 2012 1190RS valued at $22k added $720/year for full coverage. Progressive. I'm 60, married and a very clean record... Government mandated extortion...... | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
$500 for 2013 BMW S1000RR. | ||
| Dave |
  Pulled the trigger DAve | ||
| Ducley |
Congrats Dave! | ||
| Dave |
Thanks all :-) It is a different feel than earlier bikes.- it's feeding my illness. After I sold my S1W (and XR1000), I can't seem to let bikes go. DAve | ||
| Dmhines |
Great looking SX! Congrats. |
