| Author | Message | ||
     Classax |
The soft limiter on the 1199R kicks in at 12K in 1st and 12.5k in 6th, in stock trim, which most owners bump up another 800rpm with the remapped ECU's. Heshao I think we are in violent agreement, the 1190 may well be performing at peak capability. By the way between Dean Adams exhaust and PVC the RX reportedly through down close to 200hp at the crank with an 11.5k redline. Even still they are about 30hp down to the competition, which IS HUGE... yet they are out there running mid pack. I don't see how people don't see that as an accomplishment. It's akin to what the F8 Bearcat fighter achieved vs P-51 Mustang. Totally different powerplant design objectives competing against each other and being close enough to at least make it a comparison when by definition it should be no contest. Took a ton of engineering to make it close. The P-51 was better in the end but only elite pilots could really exploit the advantages over most decent pilots in the Bearcats. (Message edited by Classax on April 14, 2015) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that there are a lot of speed to be found from the EBR , just by riding it ...For sure there is not going to be a top 6 finish, but a top 10 seems possible... Canepa managed to score top 10 finish in the test at Philip Island....and then mechanical failures started to happen .... maybe the team got greedy and increased the rpm on the engine for a search of extra power to close the gap to the front.... That proved to be catastrophic, since it lead to DNFs , DNS and most importantly giving an injury to Canepa which in addition to the DNFs and DNSs in Thailand •••••• their confidence up. In Aragon it was the first time Canepa managed to complete a race. FPs and QP zre very different than the actual races .... As soon as Canepa starts to get more confident on the bike, there will be a top 10 finish soon ..... Maybe in Laguna Seca ! ! ! This year there are Very big improvements compared to the 2014 season ....This year EBRs are not lapped as last year.... | ||
| Henshao |
In regards to the Bearcat vs Mustang, I was always a fan of the P-38 so I defer. What amazes me the more I learn about WSBK is that Assen is considered a tight track with less emphasis of horsepower.  This is considered a tight track on the WSBK circuit? With all those long straight or nearly straight sections, it's no wonder EBR can't catch a break. Canepa also says he is looking forward to Imola, moreso because he has always had success there than anything else.  As compared to Jennings where Nic Canepa holds the lap record on an 1190.  | ||
| Classax |
"In regards to the Bearcat vs Mustang, I was always a fan of the P-38 so I defer." P-61 Blackwidow is my personal favorite of the war, its clear we both have similar taste in twins of all sorts d.cGU,https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esr c=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEIQtwIwBA &url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvD UHjD0MLqY&ei=UmguVcShCYjooATAvoCoDg&usg=AFQjCNEywu 9JsVEGp6GcUq_xSNxZ3H7ldA&bvm=bv.90790515,d.cGU US tracks tend to be FAR tighter than the tracks on the WSBk circuit. Laguna for years was considered one of the smallest tightest tracks of WSbk where as it represents a decent mid size track in the US. The EBR is really designed to "own the corners." There's a tiny track in south Texas called GSS, with 15 turns stuffed into a 1.5 mile lap. Liter bikes regularly get crushed by 600, 500,300 and 250's there. Liter bikes typically aren't much fun on it as you can't get into a rhythm or exploit the top end power. Ole school twins kill there, the new 1199 not so much. The RX is a blast to ride there as you can carry 250 type corner speed and still out grunt just about everyone on the exit and then trail brake through just about every corner. Where as at TWS which is a converted oval speed way, the 1199's and S1kRRs give you fits because by the time you've closed the gap enough in the infield to try to go for a pass, they open it back up down the long straight. Takes the entire 20 minute session to finally pull off a pass on them and it won't happen if you make a single mistake. What does a newb track day have to do with WSBk? Nothing other than I'm sure the EBR team is seeing the same type of thing except on an entirely different scale. Looking at the split times its the straights they seem to be loosing the most time. I'm curious why Larry seems to get on the brakes so early, seems to me he should adopt Nic's style and brake harder later and trail it off to apex, the ZTL2 are better suited for that than the brake hard straight up then dive in style he SEEMS to be using (based on the video and photos, he's not still on the brakes while tipping in to most of the turns). I could be completely wrong, just trying to judge it from the level of fork compression in photos is not a true indicator. It would have been nice to have him as team principle and Geoff May returning as the second rider with full track knowledge but.... | ||
| Hughlysses |
P-61 Blackwidow is my personal favorite of the war, Hey, me too! Are you following the guys up in Reading, PA who are restoring one to flying condition? Wow- this is going seriously OT. | ||
| Classax |
Been up to see them once and donated a little cash! Most technologically advanced piston engine bird of the war. First to carry dedicated radar. It had an unconventional control set up, designed to really BRAKE, TURN, and Accelerate, instead of highest top speeds it was meant to dogfight with Zeros despite being medium bomber size. It scored the last three aerial kills of the war but the enemy was out of planes and jets were taking over by the time it arrived in any real #s. It is in a lot of ways the EBR of its day. Incidentally, it used staggered intake induction (intake swirl) with water injection instead of a supercharger early on. Like the P-38 it was a big fighter that got it's agility from mass centralization, but unlike the P-38 the 61 had far more armor, firepower and range while still being able to out turn planes 1/4 its size. Ultimately the V 12 and then the jet replaced the big Double Wasps radial Pratts. If you wanted max top end speed, a v12 or jet simply couldn't be beat. If you wanted to haul a big load or have short take off, or maximize transitions from decel to max acceleration, the big radial was still your best bet. Hence the comparisons, EBR's are designed to corner like a smaller bike and maximize drive out of corners where as the bikes if faces are more topend focused with powerplants that favor longer sweeping tracks as opposed to tight technical stuff, as you find on US tracks and most canyon runs. In Wsbk it may well be a case of Lions chasing Cheetahs(if I may mix metaphors), the power plants are simply meant to achieve different things despite having overlapping envelopes. (Message edited by Classax on April 15, 2015) | ||
| Jscott |
What will this mean and is it real? http://www.jsonline.com/business/erik-buell-racing -closes-files-for-receivership-b99481936z1-2998632 81.html | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Is it real? Of course it's real. I would imagine the racing efforts will be gone in quick order as the funding for that will all need to stop. And we can assume this is why there isn't a factory AMA effort this year. | ||
| Jaimec |
 | ||
| Hughlysses |
I would imagine the racing efforts will be gone in quick order as the funding for that will all need to stop. Maybe not; I'll bet the racing effort is 100% funded by Hero and they aren't having any financial problems. | ||
| Neutrum |
kinda forseeable... 1. build good bike for the road (sx) 2. sell a lot of them 3. build a racebike 4. sell a lot of them 5. go wsbk-racing not the other way round... dammit... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I do not think that the WSBK efford is the reason EBR is shutting down .... How long were the 1190RX for sale ? Less than a year , right ? The SX is available for 3 months, right ? So how can you get in bunkrupcy in such a short time ? It makes no sense ....It is not like the EBRs were sitting at showrooms without being sold for years .... I have read somewhere that just in Australia 200 EBRs were sold.... Something new is going to happen .... HERO motorcycles ? | ||
| Nobuell |
Sad but not surprising. I do not believe that the WSBK is the direct cause but I bet it diverted many resources required to support and fund. How much of that is paid for by the sponsors, anybodies guess. I read that most of the money was owed to Hero forcing the receivership. I would guess that is not the case. I would expect it is the suppliers wanting to get paid for what they supplied for bike production. Hopefully they can get through bankruptcy, reorganize and continue to move forward. Perhaps Hero will buy the assets and move forward. | ||
| Nobuell |
I would think that the lack of sales was catching up with them. R&D and gearing up for production had to be very expensive. If the inventory is not moving the revenues stop but you still must pay the vendors. They will only let you ride for so long. My bet is that they will not liquidate the company. It would make more sense for Hero to further their investment and perhaps provide the funding required to properly market and implement the proper support structure. A couple of months ago I went to an EBR dealer to buy some EBR parts. What should have been a 5 minute transaction turned into an hour. They could not figure out how to get pricing. The best I could tell, there was no computer interface and they ended up calling EBR. I was not expecting the part would be stock and knew that it would be ordered. The part was shown on the EBR website but displayed contact an EBR dealer. In this day of computer systems and internet, that seemed very strange. I knew something was up at that point. EBR was worried about racing but did not bother to establish their parts network. As I said previously it is a sad day. | ||
| Henshao |
I crashed my Buell today. Probably totaled. Now learned EBR is going under. Chalk it onto the list of things to ask God about when I see Him. | ||
| Classax |
In a way I think the current problem is directly related to racing in WSBk for two reasons: Homologation forced them to build WAY more than the market would have warranted in order to play with the big boys, and the rules changes left them in a horrible catch 22 in terms of being able to develop the bike on the track. That and a horribly meager marketing plan. Great bikes though. We'll know soon enough if they are on the Grid Sunday or not. I would expect the race budget is already set, thought they have trouble getting parts, just like the rest of us. By the way Chapter 128 is NOT a bankruptcy per say, it is more a temporary protection from creditors and interest until you can pay them off or sell with new owners getting to start operations with a clean slate. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I just do not get it .... The sales for the EBR looked to be going OK....I have read an article that in Australia all the imported EBRs were sold, 200 motorcycles .... not bad , was it ? It was just way too soon to give up.... If EBR wanted to make cash fast, they could have started to sell kits for radiators and fairings so that 1125Rs were to start looking like 1190RXs .... } | ||
| Nobuell |
I was looking at the Chapter 128 information for business on the web. A unique Wisconsin law. It provides the protection of Chapter 11 but at the state not the Federal level. It looks a lot like debt consolidation. I always thought that racing in the WSBK was a mistake. Being barely competitive in the AMA does not a competitive WSBK make. It always made more sense to me to develop the bike and succeed in the USA to supplement their marketing effort. It is a shame. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
One more thing.... this looks similar to the H-D / MV Agusta deal a few years ago..... H-D paid a lot of money for MV Agusta , and then gave it back to the Italian owner (Castiglioni) for free.. Is this something similar going on with EBR and HERO ??? | ||
| Henshao |
Barely competitive? I thought there were podiums aplenty in AMA. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Did you really crash today ? | ||
| Classax |
Canepa and Pegram are both deafeningly silent on the matter... Facebook watching... | ||
| Fast1075 |
I loved the start in a shed with your own two hands ideal. The mark has been missed. Widely. Cart before horse I'm afraid. Sad day. The vultures will feast. | ||
| Nobuell |
Only a few podiums in AMA Superbike since EBR started racing. | ||
| Ebmachine |
I am waiting for some billionaire to come in and save the day with a few million to support American ingenuity. I won't hold my breath waiting, but I can still dream. | ||
| Ljm |
The smart-ass in me says that things may not be looking so bad for Geoff May. | ||
| Crusty |
Only a few podiums in AMA Superbike since EBR started racing. And how many podiums in AMA Superbike did BMW get? Or Ducati? Or even KTM? | ||
| Ebmachine |
BMW is struggling in WSBK. Hats off to EBR with limited resources. EBR is competing well with BMW in WSBK. The 1000RR is well respected, but not doing well in WSBK. | ||
| Mog |
Erik did not plan this to happen. It is over!! I am relieved but feel for employees. What will come of it is a 150 mile run. A 20 minute charge to full. Corners like a fly rimming a sugar bowl. And a light, full torque at stall, electric super-superbike. REALLY!!! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
In 2009 , it was H-D that shut down Buell... H-D was considered the "bad guys"... Now in 2015, it is HERO that stops funding the EBR, after HERO decided to invest money in EBR so that EBR started building bikes in a large scale, even meeting homologation numbers to enter WSBK.... So who is the "bad guys" this time ?? HERO ?? They promised cash and then they decided to quit at the first sign of problems ?? Maybe HERO did miscalculate the amount of cash that was required to keep EBR running ??? OR...is Mr Erik Buell himself the problem ?? His way of running EBR was not what HERO's management wanted and then HERO decided to back off ?? Can you blame them in this scenario ? http://www.livemint.com/Companies/VN6476XpEiCCXuHz P0GIvN/Erik-Buell-Racing-Hero-Motocorps-US-partner -files-for-ban.html |
